Chord DAVE DAC

It seems that you are  ignoring the elephant in the room. The real question are your electronics Amp.preamp,source and speakers worthy of a $15,000 DAC.

@jackhifiguy 

At this point I don't believe that there is any category of equipment that is "end game" at a purely technical level.  It may be "end game" to you though.

Point is I would think long and hard about dropping $14k on a DAC.  If there is any category that is not mature it is DACs.

You'll get plenty of attention when willing to spend at that level. An alternative is get on a plane and audition.

Just my 2 cents. 

Regards,

barts 

@charles1dad

Anything more than they can/want to spend is simply the result of hype, clever marketing and of course a good dose of the ever present snake oil.

ding ding ding... bingo!!!

more than i can/am willing to spend, so anyone who spends more is a foo'

In these forums (and just about any other forum on the internet), most times discussions revolve around inquiries and perspectives. When done well, those perspectives surface values, which can be helpful to learning how those values can be fulfilled, especially if the community is empathetic to them. The unfortunate thing is that everybody’s values are different, AND not everyone is empathetic to each others’ values. If we could all just be more empathetic to each other and not force our opinions on others, online communities would be much healthier places (mentally).

That said, I’ve been in the boat to have made to feel like how jjss49 and charles1dad have by many (meaning I support both of your posts), mostly because I am spending more on my gear than others or spend more time dialing things in. But in truth, I have never regretted any of my big purchases or effort because they have yielded more than satisfactory results. The purchase themselves and the marketing hype is not what drives the validation, but the comparison to many others’ systems and rooms to mine, as well as the personal satisfaction I get from listening and being transported and the way it makes me feel makes the whole journey worthwhile.

Thank you all so much :)

Has anyone compared the DAC in a Chord DAVE to one in a high-end streamer like an Esoteric N-01XD?

I want the DAC to be accurate. Just want to hear the music the way it was recorded.

Not sure what this means. The music was recorded using specific mics, in a specific room using a specific Analog to digital device, then played back over specific speakers (or headphones) and mixed accordingly, and then it was mixed again with certain kinds of output devices in mind (compression, perhaps).

In other words, you may be after something you will enjoy, but how you get back to some Ur-recording is mystifying. To hear it "the way they heard it" at the very least means being in their listening room (mixing studio), in their chair, with their speakers and playback system. Other than that, it’s all gavagai -- a translation.

But measurements don’t tell the entire story...so subjective opinions and objective reviews from professionals are necessary.

Subjective opinions are valuable if… their tastes are similar, their rooms are similar, their equipment is similar, their recordings are similar. Virtually no one goes to any trouble at all to verify these things. We just have people saying, "This DAC is analytical" or "This amp is smooth" and then others — with a completely different setup and tastes (maybe) then chime in and either agree or disagree.

@yogi42 I admit my DAC is the most expensive component in my system:

Amp $6K

Streamer $5k

Speakers $9K

DAC     $13K

That is on purpose.  The DAC is where the most important stuff happens.  ASR thinks they can measure some parameter and characterize a dac with a number.   conversion from Digital to analog is like translating a language.  Write me an algoritm to measure the accent of a German text translated to Swahili?  

So I listened to a lot of DACs and bought the best one.  

I started with my speakers, went through about 5 amps, and 3 streamers.  

I guess I got to the right DAC after 4.

Jerry

@hilde45 Subjective opinions are valuable if… their tastes are similar, their rooms are similar, their equipment is similar, their recordings are similar. Virtually no one goes to any trouble at all to verify these things. We just have people saying, "This DAC is analytical" or "This amp is smooth" and then others — with a completely different setup and tastes (maybe) then chime in and either agree or disagree.

I honestly get your point. The ideal way to judge and evaluate an audio component is to get it into your system and listen with your own ears. Then you make a judgment call. Unfortunately this scenario isn’t always a possibility. So what alternatives are available?

1 Read professional reviews.

2 Communication with those who have owned or heard the audio product.

3 Rely on test bench measurements.

I can only speak in regard to my own actual experience. Feedback and human to human communication with those familiar with a product serves me best. Second in line would be information gathered from a professional audio review.

Reliance on measurements from my perspective/experience a very distant 3rd option. I do find measurements very helpful during a selection process (Determining compatibility potential) but woefully inadequate in regard to determining sound quality.

I accept the reality that through verbal and written communication isn’t perfect and extrapolation is required, understood. Feedback and listening impressions from other experienced music lovers has just served me very well on multiple occasions.

In those circumstances where home auditioning isn’t feasible, I’ll take my chances with other humans who can offer hands (Ears) on feedback. @hilde45 if your past experiences are different, I understand.

Charles

Thank you all so much :)

For the comments or confusion? 😁

Point is I would think long and hard about dropping $14k on a DAC.  If there is any category that is not mature it is DACs.

I also do not feel comfortable dropping 14K on DAC's but for the opposite reason. I think the DAC market has really grown up and reached a very high level with lower costs.

Hi Jack,

Not your question - but ditch the MP3s and subscribe to Tidal or Qobuz. You;ll get at minimum full FLAC ro HD, and a huge library.  You simply cant get good meals from poor ingredients

As to ASR - they measure.  I guess you;ve been in a cave (*maybe wise) but this topic comes up regularly.  If you believes measurements no one would spend more than about $100 for a DAC and $300 for an integrated amp.  No tubes (terrible measurements). Certainly no vinyl (60 dB SNR).  I wont open Pandora's box (what are they missing?, do we like accurate) - but reality says otherwise.

Oh, and I design this stuff professionally as a side hobby, and retired as CTO of a major tech firm, so not unfamiliar with the tech. I sure wish measurements did correlate - my job would be much easier.

@itsjustme 

 If you believes measurements no one would spend more than about $100 for a DAC and $300 for an integrated amp. No tubes (terrible measurements). Certainly no vinyl

Yet there are those who vehemently make that very case. If the component has excellent measurements at that price point, you exhibit gullibility by paying more. Listen to it? Why do I need to do that?

Charles

@charles1dad 

In those circumstances where home auditioning isn’t feasible, I’ll take my chances with other humans who can offer hands (Ears) on feedback. @hilde45 if your past experiences are different, I understand.

I totally agree with you. What I like about your post — and this was really the point I was trying to push — is that there is a middle ground between groundless opining with no empirical controls and strictly controlled listening conditions. And we should strive for that middle ground or at least acknowledge (and specify) the most salient conditions under which our aesthetic judgments are formed.

I recently received an inheritance worth about 13k. I can shell out another 2 grand to get my end-game DAC with headphones. Or...maybe the wife and kids want their bathrooms renovated

Is there a wise person at home with a self-confident moral compass with a decision making capacity on exactly how to prioritize the administration of such a generous inheritance?

Other than on either toilets or a DAC. Dunno, Ask dudes at Audiogon.

Priceless.

Really shows where's someone's priorities lie...

@jackhifiguy   As of today 8/1/22 the price of the DAVE is $14,000  If I were you I'd buy the Chord Hugo TT2..Give the rest to the wife to spruce up the bathrooms.

When funds permit or a deal pops up buy the Mscaler.. Thats what I have and I'm very happy.

Recently my nephew had a Chord Dave and replaced it with a Lampizator Baltic 3.  It was a marked improvement in SQ in his system.  I liked the difference so much I went and bought the Lampi Big 7 mk2.  It's just so much more organic and natural sounding.

@jackhifiguy 

Since your goal seems to be objective fidelity, I would put more stock in measurements than subjective listening impressions. Having said that, out of all the Chord DACs I've listened to over the years (DAVE - with and without M Scaler, Hugo2, Mojo, and Qutest), my favorite is actually the Qutest. It also happens to be the DAC that measures the best. Coincidence? Perhaps.

Audio aside, it may be best to spend the money on those new bathrooms for your family as another poster mentioned. They're much more important than gadgets and gear.

As for objective fidelity and measurements ASR, has recently trashed the Chord DAVE.

Objectively speaking, if you follow what's been going on in the forums it is clear to me that one doesn't have to spend more than the cost of the Holo May to get a taste of the best that digital has to offer.  I have done it for less, but I'm not in this thread to promote a brand.

IMO, though, Chord products are the most cheaply built (except for their cases), overpriced DACs on the market.  The DAVE has a very inexpensive to make switch-mode power supply and at the heart of its analog stage are two $1.50 TI chips.  I don't think a component can give more than what it is made of.  A very personal view. And not to mention that this $14,000 DAC needs a $5,650 accessory to sound its best.

Better remodel those bathrooms man, or it will cost you even more when the wife finds out. 

@melm 

IMO, though, Chord products are the most cheaply built (except for their cases), overpriced DACs on the market.  The DAVE has a very inexpensive to make switch-mode power supply and at the heart of its analog stage are two $1.50 TI chips.

Noteworthy.

Charles

i would have to say, in my own experience, the chord hugo tt2 with m scaler is one of my favorite sounding dacs i have experienced through my extensive dac journey since covid shut us in in early 2020, when i finally implemented music streaming, and thus have been running the gauntlet of dacs, priced high and low

certainly expensive, certainly well marketed, i don’t know too much about what goes on inside, maybe it contains some cheapo parts nestled within those sexy machined cases with colored baubles, but to me, this combo is one of the very small handful of best sounding dacs i heard, and one which i still choose to own - so to me, they did get something right, and maybe the most important thing

@curiousjim 

Thanks. Being a smart-ass since a child I got a lot of grief for it… but as an adult, a lot of laughs.

I love how these type of posts end.

They are like watching a good movie and then the last minute is deleted, no ending, leaving everyone hanging.  No one knows what happened and what the results were - which is what everyone was trying to contribute to in the first place.   

In the end, why did the thread exist in the first place?   :-)

@kneptune 

Yes and this is not an uncommon occurrence. People kindly  respond with good and worthwhile recommendations. The Original poster just vanishes away. Indeed, what was the point?

Charles