CD transports; do they really matter

Audiolab 6000CDT has a buffer which helps considerably MSRP ~ $700

BTW; has anyone tried the Bel Canto CD transport. Looks reasonably priced but few reviews on it.

Yes I've already run my CD player via my Bricasti DAC.  Sounds better but not that much impact which leads me to wonder if the issue is the transport in the Luxman ( or my digital cord).

@stuartk Yes, exactly, you got it. I’d encourage people to follow this advice.. Its just prudent and common sense.

My own CDP (Rega Saturn) has some DAC in it that was state of the art at the time - in 2008. It is very good, as it happens.

Chucked on a basic no frills Topping DAC and hello better everything.

Due to geography I can’t do a like with like comparison with a transport right now, but I certainly aim to do so before parting with over about USD$3,000 for a Pro-Ject transport.

@noske :

"However something that may be quite relevant, I reckon, is that in comparing a CDP with a transport plus DAC, is that the DACs are in fact being compared".

Perhaps the answer to this is to run a digital cable from the CDP (thereby bypassing its internal DAC) to a standalone DAC, then compare that pairing to the sound of a standalone transport connected to the same standalone DAC.  

@charles1dad The belief that it’s all about the DAC is misguided in my opinion.

Comparing different transports with the same DAC is robust. Easy. And Sigma Delta DACs are mostly all very good these days. So, yes. Cannot comment on R2Rs but I understand from reviews that they vary. Yeah.

However something that may be quite relevant, I reckon, is that in comparing a CDP with a transport plus DAC, is that the DACs are in fact being compared.

The external (high quality) DAC with the internal DAC of the CDP of years past. "Aged Luxman CDP". I have a aged Technics CDP wasting space with something called MASH. It’s not pretty.

What I reckon most folk would be interested in is comparing a transport to their CDP where the same DAC is attached - if the CDP has digital out. I don’t know if CDPs generally have digital out. Especailly if they are like maybe 10 or 15 + years old.

And as I found recently, the transport mechanism in the CDP can become tired and require replacement by a technician (total cost for me was less than $100).  So that aspect is different as well.  But I digress.

Tried 3 different transports into my Mojo Evo dac. Oppo (good), Pioneer (better), Esoteric (best). The differences are easily heard. The Esoteric with its VRDS transport is the winner by a wide margin.

@stuartk

You could order the Pro-ject from one of the online audio sellers than offer returns and return it if you didn’t like it. The proof is in the listening!

This is a very good suggestion @mdrone assuming that the Pro-Ject is within your budget range. Listen and evaluate in your own audio system. If you deem it is not worth it then return it after your trial period.

I’ve owned an early generation Esoteric transport with the VRDS disc clamping mechanism and also the P.S.Audio Memory PWT. Both were exceptionally good CD transports but the Pro-Ject RS2T is just better from A to Z in all conceivable ways. Your listening impressions may or may not be the same as mine.

Charles

... the Pro-ject, that is. 

Audio Advisor expects to get more by 3/18. 

Made a definite improvement even in my mid level system when I stepped up from a Cambridge Audio ACX 35 CD player ( as CD and as transport)  to their CXC v2 transport.  Can’t face spending hours and months ripping my CD collection to a server even if it’s a better way to go. 

@mdrone :

I compared the Pro-ject to my Sim and there was an immediate and very significant improvement. 

Although I did not care for the ergonomics of the Pro-ject, its sonic merits were clear as day. 

You could order the Pro-ject from one of the online audio sellers than offer returns and return it if you didn't like it. The proof is in  the listening!  

Yes, I agree with Charles and the others who have said that they make a very audible difference. Get the best one that you can afford.

they've mattered very much in my system

solid feels better, but

the drawer could be made of granite, rolling on ruby diamonds, or cardboard, totally irrelevant.

after closing, disc gets lifted up and spun, by nearly universal parts, and nearly universal brains, to maintain a constant data stream speed.

"CDs spin at about 500 rpm when read near the center, decreasing to approximately 200 rpm when read near the circumference, producing a constant linear velocity."

the laser simply moves independently in a straight line below the spinning disc, also governed by nearly universal parts and brains

the cheapest portable cd player is able to do this, it's the software, up-scale, re-clock, anti-jitter, error correction, filters, then the dac(s) that make the audible difference.

+1 Charles.

When I purchased my Mojo Audio EVO DAC, Ben at Mojo advised that I purchase a better transport if I wanted to get the more out of the EVO. I went with a Sim and there was a noticeable improvement from a Cambridge transport in my system.

@mdrone - maybe PM member amorstereo (Terry London) , he is a reviewer and has stated that he has had several transports in his system including the Project that Charles noted above. I expect that he would give you a balanced view of transports. Below is a link to his review of the Project Transport 

Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 Transport (stereotimes.com)

@pesky_wabbit 

the transport matters. big time, interconnect too, defies logic, really wish it weren‘t so. Take @stuartk‘s sage advice and see for yourself.

If you can‘t hear a difference count yourself very lucky.

Correct! For those who say they hear little difference between  CD transports , okay then buy the cheapest one you can find and be done with it. My experience has been quite different and there are significant degrees of sonic quality amongst them. 

Without exception in my listening experiences the better the CD transport quality,  the better the sound quality. CD transports as the source to the downstream DAC play a crucial role. I own the Pro Ject RS2T CD transport and its insertion into my audio system is undeniably  impactful.  Its sound quality is superb. 

The belief that it's all about the DAC is misguided in my opinion. Same sorce priciple applies to music servers/streamers. As they increase in their quality,  so does the overall sound quality. A friend of mine recently acquired the Taiko Extreme music server  and the impact and improvement it provides compared  to the former server is profound!  Front end digital sources matter and matter greatly. 

If one cannot hear or appreciate the difference then yes, of course it'd be a waste of money and pointless to upgrade to better quality digital  source transport /music server  components. 

Charles 

The difficult piece is finding a dealer who will send me a transport to sample in my system.  Obviously that would be the simple way to determine if there is any improvement compared to my current CD player.

There is no longer a compelling reason to buy a CD player unless you love playing with physical things.

The arguments for streaming are manifold, however this is not a universally held view. See threads discussing this issue.

the transport matters. big time, interconnect too, defies logic, really wish it weren‘t so. Take @stuartk‘s sage advice and see for yourself.

If you can‘t hear a difference count yourself very lucky..

Why not try listening to one in your system ? 

Coincidentally, Ayre Acoustics released a new CD player today, the CX-8.

Also apparently  Ayre's best DAC  is on board, and includes both streaming connectivity in, as well as digital and analog out.

Interesting....

First, does the transport matter… yes. High end manufactures take mass produced transports and isolate them and provide very stable current. They go to great lengths to get the best stream of bits out of them.

However, it is a stream of bits… which you can get from a local file, 0r a network drive, or a streaming service. If it was ten years ago one would look for a great CD player (Transport, Streamer, and DAC). But today it is old technology. Today and the future is about streaming. A good streamer and DAC completely replaces a CD player as a digital source. You can buy a combined streamer, storage, and DAC, or individual. But the future is streaming… not owning physical or digital media. My streamer (using Qobuz) sounds the same on red book CDs and vinyl and frequently better with high Rez. There is no longer a compelling reason to buy a CD player unless you love playing with physical things.

BTW, from a historical perspective it was physical media, then rip CDs (copy a digital file to a storage device… like hard drive), then copy files to a network drive. All historically interesting, but something in ten years folks will be laughing at… you did what? Why?
 

If you can rip your CDs into a storage (could be a hard drive or a server) and either play directly via connecting to a DAC, or stream via a network, it’ll simplify things.

Transports mattering, or how more expensive devices are better is not the question - a transport is just a mechanical winder with a laser reader which then sends the bits to an external DAC.

A CD player itself is a transport, it just has the DAC within the same case. But step back and think - its more profitable for people within a specific chain if you buy two devices instead of one: manufacturers, distributors and sellers. Are two devices better than one? Could be. Could not be if the one device is made well, if noise is suppressed by ensuring proper shielding.

In certain ways two devices are worse for sure - more materials consumed, more power used, more space needed, more heat produced. Things add up.

it might not make big difference with DACs that offer strong jitter suppression, like my Benchmark DAC3 (with Asynchronous Rate Converter), but will make some difference with most DACs.  Higher end transports tend to have higher slew rate of digital output, minimizing effect of noise "riding" on the signal that can move moment of level recognition (threshold) back and forth in time (on jagged signal slopes).  In addition higher quality transports most likely will have better quality, quieter supplies injecting less noise. The best would be high end transport with high slew rate output, that you can perfectly impedance match to cable and DAC.  Toslink outputs don't have characteristic impedance problem (reflections on impedance boundaries), but have slower transitions, making it more susceptible to noise induced jitter.  Jitter of digital words in time domain translates to added noise in frequency domain - noise that is proportional to signal level, non-audible without signal - basically affecting sound clarity.

+1 with the sioux fellow.

Although Fed Ex beats UPS anyway.

Get an Innuos Zen Mk3, load all your CDs into it an introduce yourself into the wonderful world of streaming and a whole new world of music you would’ve never heard with your silver discs.

Top load really matters to avoid mechanical failures.