Me provocative? You cannot be serious!
CD Got Absolutely Crushed By Vinyl
No comparison, CD always sounds so cold and gritty. Vinyl is so much warmer, smoother and has better imaging and much greater depth of sound. It’s like watching the world go by through a dirty window pane when listening to a CD. Put the same LP on the turntable and Voila! Everything takes on more vibrancy, fullness and texture.
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rauliruegas"If I'm rigth and you are a seller then the place for you and your seller mind belongs to the Agon advertasing list" This is false, wrong, and incorrect there is nothing in the rules, guidelines, and policies of Audiogon that limits, restricts, or forbids posting and use of the forum by those selling something and by the way "Raul" you are also selling something you are trying to sell us on the theory, notion, and concept that you are an expert, authority, and visionary when you are none of them! |
That’s pretty much what we were told about CD players all along and CDs. That error correction corrects any errors and the laser tracking servo mechanism keeps the laser on track in the face of any wobbling or fluttering. In other words CD is perfect sound forever. If EAC works as you describe copies should be much better sounding than the original in terms of sound quality. If it’s only marginally better then I’d be suspicious. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. |
Geoff, When I rip a cd with EAC it compares my bits to the results that other people got when they ripped with EAC and my rip usually matches other people’s rips exactly. EAC reads the data on a cd at least twice and if the reads don’t match exactly, it reads the bits at least 16 times and if the bits don’t match exactly at least 8 times, it keeps on reading. I may not have gotten all that exactly right, but how can EAC rip with such certainty if, according to you, a laser can never read a cd correctly. I’m not sure that EAC rips perfectly every bit, maybe you or someone else knows what the level of resolution it operates at. The answer to my question is not that EAC is a fraud. |
Digital never had a chance. As soon as the laser strikes the disc the game is over. The laser scattered light and the vibration and flutter of the disc prevent the real data from ever getting to the DAC. The sound quality is permanently degraded in the initial one millionth of a second and never recovers. And can never be recovered. It’s no wonder there’s been a continuous barrage of higher bit rates and sampling rates and “higher resolution” formats, upsampling, downsampling, remasters, all because the initial problems were never resolved. Hel-loo! |
No problem hind end. In case you didn’t notice (as most wallflowers / flakes don’t participate, but only stalk, due to their lack of courage or intellect) this thread was the top thread for this forum for over one month. Maybe next time you can come up with a response that’s actually on topic and doesn’t make you look like a fool. Buh -bye. |
I have a Marantz SA-10 and it's a great player. I have a Acoustic Signiture Final Tool with upgraded platter with 24 silencers and upgraded motors. Graham 2.2 ceramic tonearm with a Dynavector 20x2 cartridge amplified by an Acoustech PH1P phono preamp. Listening to "Jackie Blue" by TOMDs the vinyl was a clear winner. More musical and the high frequencies on the lead guitar was purer sweeter and extended. The Marantz can be a killer sometimes. It all comes down to the recording. This time was not. Elizabeth what setting might I try. I have it on mode 1 but actually haven't tried the others |
“CD is for casual listening. Vinyl is for serious listening” I humbly disagree with your statement. Serious listening is not format dependent....I can confidently say that I experience same level of pride and joy in listening to my favorite artists on CD’s as well as streaming through Qobuz/Tidal. It’s not one component, it’s a sum of all in your system. The CD’s and streaming formats are just as good as Vinyl if you have paid the same level of attention in setting them up as you did with TT. You read it right....I repeat again, just as good. For casual or serious listening, $1K TT is not any better than a $200 CD player. |
Der @tzh21y : Good for that people that listen digital alternative too. Pitty/sad for you that do not yet even that through this and other threads are wide explanation/evidence and facts why you should be. That you like to " live in the error " does not means you are rigth because you are not. Btw, did you try any of the digital/LP comparisons in your own system of those recordings I posted to sleepwalker65?, not yet? then till you test it your posts are absolutely useless nd futile for everyone, you included. R. |
Yes, I spent the equivalent of $22K, a VPI TNT VI plus, modified SME IV, Benz Ruby 3, Townsend Seismic Sink, Audio Interface SUT and phono pre-amp. My CD players cost $6K (EAR Acute) and $150 (mod. Pioneer DVD D-05). Plus additional ICs and A/C cabling. Vinyl often better than equivalent CD but 90% of CDs sound great versus 20% of vinyl (I have many U.S. pressings of Angel and Columbia labels, (all inferior to CD remasterings) for instance. . |
Don't forget phono stage is the most sensitive/ delicate part of the entire set up. If your phono amp creates early stage of noise it can be multiplied several times you can have awful lot of noise. Which you may not find in digital set up. One has to spend many time the bucks to have a good vinyl set up. I also find if one has a good tube amp and preamp set up you could achieve pretty detailed sound.Never the less to say vinyl will have better detail but at a very high cost. If you are a person like me, listening to couple hours, nothing like changing digital music to your taste right on your device.This is relaxation not LAZY. With vinyl you not only need a good cartridge, you need a good turntable, good phono stage . I presently have a Rega p3, with Othofon quintet black cart($850) with simply phono preamp ( $2200) still its not good enough for me. I will need to spend about 10K to get what I want. |
Dear @sleepwalker65 : When in any system the overall set up was made it in specific for the digital alternatice can shows at its best then the analog alternative in that same audio system will performs with a higher quality level as never before. Yes, we must to try it ! ! ! and learn on that specific regards. R. |
Analog lovers: Please read/see first the system of this gentleman and after that read what he posted in that " if.. " thread: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/682 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-what-if/post?postid=1706764#1706764 and his cartridge is a superior one that maybe only a few of you have that cartridge quality level overall performance. R. |
Btw, if for you or any other analog lover the CD in the audio system can't at least even the LP quality overall performance then there is a serious/critical problems with that system ( somewhere in one or some of thelinks in the system chain. ) whole set up or the quality of the CDP on that system. Personally I don't care what's wrong with you or any other anti-digital analog lovers. What I post here and elsewhere on this and other MUSIC/audio regards is only expose facts not just opinion or what I or don't like because what you or me like is unimportant. The star is MUSIC nothing less nothing more. R. |
Dear @sleepwalker65 : You started in this thread a " battle " that just before your OP you had totally lost. No matter what. You read the " other turn around thread "/opposite to this one and seems to me that unfortunatelly you did not understand all the facts posted there that unequivocally says that it’s vinyl whom is " dead " in the very first moment that appeared the 20/96 DACs. " CD is CD. What you put in is what you get out. If you are trying to compare another format to vinyl, that’s a different discussion. """ it’s incredibkle that you still want to win when you can’t do it. Your statement is an example of that and my answer to it is with other example: what needs a LOMC device for you can listen a sound coming from your speakers or a MM cartridge?, exactly it needs an analog rig. Well CD with out a CDP is just a CD where as with the cartridges can’t gives you any sound through your speakers. I hope you agree with all those. Your way of thinking on the CD/LP subject is a dead way of thinking and you are not alone , all those gentlemans that " die for vinyl " are like you: totally wrong and not because I say that but the facts in the other thread that I linked in this thread. Where are your and the other vinyl lovers ( I’m a vinyl lover but I understand the facts/reality. ) facts other that " I like it ". You have not a single one and is not your culprit because those facts on vinyl just does not exist ! ! ! Btw, do you already bougth the CD/LP I posted the link through amazon?, no: what are you waiting for: there you can find out facts not inexistent " illusions " Here other facts: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=alita+black+angel+cd&i=music-intl-ship&ref=nb_sb_noss I’m waiting for the LP. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=the+house+that+dirt+built&i=music-intl-ship&crid=1WYLJ39MKLS92&am... The House.... https://www.amazon.com/s?k=angels+%26+demons+original+motion+picture+soundtrack+cd&i=music-intl-... We all need to learn and for that each one of us need to have a positive attitude that permits that each one of us can be willing to learn, willing to grow-up to move on. On the CD subject you are living in 1965 but remember yhat in reality we all are living in 2019 with 2018 CDP. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@tomcy6 sleepwalker, reality check:https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-what-if Tomy the only person needing to do a reality check is you. |
“CD is a dead media format”. CD is far from dead....if we are talking about mainstream then CD, Vinyl, Tape all are pretty much dead formats. As @fleschler pointed out there are many releases of great recordings are being put out on CD’s. One reliable source of remastered great sounding CD’s is Elusive Disc, they got very nice collection of rare jazz and classical recordings. Anyone who thinks CD is CD, check out Dexter Gordon’s - A Singin’ Affair XRCD. |
CD is not a dead format. Many great remasterings are happening and have happened in the past few years. I keep finding superior sounding recent reissues of Jazz and Classical on Amazon at great prices. E.g. Monteux's famous RCA Sleeping Beauty recording. I have 3 vinyl issues, including a 1s/1s but the bass is not the best and the vinyl pressings are not quiet, hurting the delicate parts of the music. The recent Australian Eloquence release, while missing a touch of ambiance (could be from being a 60 year old tape) has superior bass and is nearly totally quiet background. A great CD release. I've found that the Eloquence series sounds better than most Decca CD reissues E.G. all of the Albert Wolff recordings. |
Chakster: If you have no passion for records why do you need a turntable?sleepwalker, reality check: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-what-if |
@rauliruegas But at the end we are talking of digital against LP/analog alternatives. Remember too that today CDP comes with 32/384 DACs or at least 24/192 and this is a characteristic that makes everything different when you listen to any CD. CD is CD. What you put in is what you get out. If you are trying to compare another format to vinyl, that’s a different discussion. |
@rauliruegas Do it a favor and don't be foolished by vinyl, no way my friend. Today year 2019 digital is way superior to and from here ahead the digital distance between it and vinyl will be wider and wider because analog developments stopped to grow up as technology several years ago and digital is still growing up and even we can think is endless in this trend. You you didn’t get the point. This is a debate on CD vs Vinyl. Not DSD vs Vinyl. CD is a dead media format. Vinyl is still in production and increasing at a compound rate every year. |
I used a Tandberg 310? to make live performance cassettes when I couldn't drag me Tandberg 9100 to the site. Although the cassettes sound good, the RR recordings were better and with much lower, unobstrusive tape hiss at 7.5 ips. Now I have a Pioneer 1500 which I can record at 15 ips but I prefer (as do others) the convenience of the Tascam digital recorders at 96/24. I prefer the digital recordings to the cassettes overall. The cassettes did have a wonderful, warm sound presentation. The digital recordings are more immediate sounding and noiseless. |
Dear @sleepwalker65: This CD not only crushed vinyl but crushed your room/system if these are not up to the task: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00QDX05A8/ref=tmm_acd_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&... Do it a favor and don't be foolished by vinyl, no way my friend. Today year 2019 digital is way superior to and from here ahead the digital distance between it and vinyl will be wider and wider because analog developments stopped to grow up as technology several years ago and digital is still growing up and even we can think is endless in this trend. Don't you think? R. |
Simon, For the MQA orientated...? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/mqa-explained-everything-you-need-to-know-about-high-res-aud... |
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Nothing to add other than media preference is an individual choice. I prefer vinyl because I've always enjoyed it. But also too, 99% of the music I like will never have 24/96 rips so for me its cassette (which I hated in the 80's except for making mixes for people), vinyl, cd (which I do not care for) or lossy streaming. I will say that vinyl is the least convenient, but I will also say that its sexy as hell when all shelved up. Conversely, having all your music in the cloud is a wonderful thing (its how I do movies). |
Despite being sick of this conversation, I will still add my input. To start with, I am a fan of both analog and CD (and digital in general), so I have no real horse in the race. Both my analog and digital rigs are on the higher end of the spectrum, without being exorbitant prices. CD does some things better than LP, LP does some things better than CD. The one obvious place that LP has over CD, is image and soundstage quality. The reason for, is because 16/44.1 does not have the resolution to accurately reproduce the human auditory system's ability to hear very small interaural time differences. Humans can hear ITDs as low as 7 microseconds, but 16/44.1 is only able to reproduce ITDs of about 22 microseconds. Hi Res digital, especially 24/192 and DSD does not have this problem. Interaural time difference is our evolutionary survival tool to accurately place noises in space (behind, in front, to the right, to the left, and distance away). We evolved this ability to be able to discern where possible danger is, so we are more likely to run away, than toward it. |
I have a decent sacd player but I have most of my investment in vinyl playback so its unfair. Digital can sound pretty good these days but I am older and grew up with vinyl and I have many records so that is what I listen to most of the time. Analog does sound more involving to me than CD but like I said, I have made the investment. That said, I do not like the reissues of most lps. for the most part, they lack the soul of their all analog counterparts. |
I used to believe it was impossible for digital music to sound as good- let alone better than vinyl. But I defy ANYONE in an apple to apple comparison to tell me a vinyl record sounds better than a red book CD ripped bit perfect to a Mac using Pure Music software with a PS Audio DirectStream DAC as the source. And a double defy a person to prove that any record can sound as good as this same CD played on a PS Audio DMP player (transport only). |
another ear crusher and another insight: last night I played Wilson Philips, 3 women with high voices combined with piss poor mastering, which I can only play when making changes, though it is now sounding better. What was especially exciting, I was able to hear the emotion in their singing I owe it to New Dark Matter |
A Benz Ruby 3. Yes, Geoffkait, I don't believe my audio system is the best; however, it is among the most enjoyable. My resolution, imaging and ambiance retrieval are not as good as many inferior systems but when taken as a whole, it is better than most audiophiles. So many have systems in constant flux, constantly changing components. I view my audio system as a system, carefully put together to create synergy. My current project is to build my new listening room in my new home. It is a great challenge and will go against common conceptions. I will be using carbon filters in the 12" cabinet size walls for the bass which apply to frequencies from 30 to 125 Hz, the fundamentals. The exterior and interior finishes are to provide support for the bass. No bass traps will be required. Do to cost restraints, I will be using a wide frequency acoustic foam unlike most foams and geared toward the cherry plywood interior wall finish. I hope it works. My current room was based on traditional dual drywall, staggered stud, wide plate criteria. Both current and future rooms will have 6" minimum engineered slab foundations. The new room won't have anything but seating and equipment. My current room has 42,000 LPs/78s/CDs (in metal drawers). So, huge difference. I'll post the results after I move in. |
