Cardas vs Cardas vs Shunyata interconnects

it amazes me that cardas would make an overtly warm and dull cable in their ’clear’ line ...

getting to be like audioquest where the patently ridiculous, utterly senseless naming of various cable models leads one to be absolutely, completely confused about what models are where in the hieirarchy

If the cables are all new, did you give them any burn in time before critical evaluation?

I’d assume that from the Cable Company they have been used a bit already but of course hard to know.

I did find the Cygnus was a little bright with female vocalist—maybe the spot for the Reflection.

Actually trying a mix and match right now with the Cygnus from the DAC and Reflection to the monos. So many possible combinations!

Would you agree that the interconnect between the DAC and the pre has more influence on SQ than between the pre and the monos?

@w123ale not surprised about Cardas. I heard that wool warm blanket when I tried their Clear Beyond power cord. I’m sure it works well in some systems and sounds good to some listeners but I pass.
 

few things if I may…

In my experience, when it comes to interconnects, having the best set between the preamp and amp will get the most ROI. Speaker cables and amplifier power cord would also be at the top of the list. 

I remember reading your post on Shunyata Delta NR v2 power cord on DAC. If that’s the power cord you ended up with, I’d recommend staying with the same level interconnects and speaker cables. 

it is a chain so it all matters

but in my experience, the first connection (from the source) is most pivotal, for obvious reasons -- think back to analog/turntables, that cable from the tt was absolutely key to sonics

"@jjss49 it amazes me that cardas would make an overtly warm and dull cable in their ’clear’ line"...

Yes, it is confusing, they threw one in the middle of the line to make that so.

I also own(ed) Clear Cygnus and now Clear Reflection, and many other Cardas for that matter. Any of the clear line is clear in different ways. Yes, results are different among the line. And, results can vary depending on the clarity and transparencey of equipment and speakers being used.

Yes, the 4-wire Cygnus is going to be more transparent than the 2-wire Reflection cable (different hybrid design of old/new technology), two different cables. "Overly warm", not necessarily, unless someone’s preamp or dac, speakers, and system is already veiled over to begin with. Clear Reflection, need not apply with overly smoothed over McIntosh systems, time to break out Std Clear or Clear Beyond. Or, check and try other brands. The new clear line is different from old 90s Cardas.

Going up the line of "clear" Clear Cygnus, Std Clear, Clear Beyond increasingly have more transparency cut from more of the same dna. Clear Reflection is not the same (odd man out), it’s a hybrid of the older cross and new clear line. I am running 3 pairs of Clear Reflection, listening to them in my system right now. My system is transparent to begin with. Took 10+ days for them to relax, to lose mechanical tension with the internal dialectric, and then they open up a little more. Bright no. Warm no. Neutral with the high freq slightly more smoothed out, yes.

The whole line is completely misunderstood by folks who’ve not tried or compared them personally in your system for a longer period of time. i.e people can’t be swapping Cardas cables back and forth every 30m, gotta let them sit and play 10-14+ days. No joke, tested this literally 100s of times with brand new and used ones coming out of a box coiled up. Gotta try the different versions of clear to understand the limitations & benefits.Every one if these cables has a different result, fwiw.

I’m re-comparing them to all of my former [other brand] OCC and Silver-Over copper cables, and I’ve owned many. Yep, it’s all weird and makes no sense :) All those others are gone now, off to new owners enjoying them now. Back to Cardas, past 30+yrs. I just tell people to go buy other cables and wish them best of luck, unless they are willing to work with TheCableCo or.a dealer to try them out 1st hand.

Those who’ve tried them [in their system] know, love it or hate it. It’s hard to explain to those who’ve not tried them at all fwiw.  

@decooney I appreciate your insight as I have admired Cardas from afar and now get to try their interconnects. I’ve been seriously thinking about switching my interconnects and speaker cables to Cardas. It’s great to have Cygnus and Reflection in hand for a comparison. My system is warm leaning with a Mc system and a tube pre. Newer SF speakers are definitely more revealing than older models.

Of the cables I’m comparing, the Cygnus instantly revealed so much more in my system—better micro dynamics, more separation, tighter bass, and more engaging overall. How would you say Clear would compare with Cygnus?

I really like that that there is such a pronounced difference between Reflection and Cygnus—makes for a real choice on the type SQ one is looking for.

I’ve now given the Shunyata cables a try. Initial impressions are not a huge differed between Venom and Venom X—X a bit more revealing. They seems to be pretty balanced sounding cables but neither seemed to move the needle on my system. Probably will put them aside for a couple of days and focus on the Cardas.

When testing gear, always a good test for me is when I just keep listening to my test songs through, rather than jumping around between tracks. This has been the Cygnus so far. I just want to keep listening and if I have another cable in I feel I’m missing something. That of course is a sign of a good cable for my system.

@audphile1 kind of you to remember my PC shoot out. Indeed I did go with the Delta V2 which is superb and has had me thinking about a full Shunyata cable system but Cardas has always held interest for me. I so love the Cable Company and being able to try things out. So often we don’t like what we think we should like and then like something else. It’s the fun of it all.

decooney has experimented with more cables than I though I've tried many myself. What I have found is it's usually a mistake to go with one line throughout: example all Cygnus.The one thing that irritates you (brightness) would be compounded.Mixing in others from the same brand will result in the best balance for your equipment and listening taste.If the Cygnus is a keeper, you could start there and start figuring out where a drop of warmth is needed or a lean clear signal is best.It's a process:-)

@w123ale  Probably will put them aside for a couple of days and focus on the Cardas.

When testing gear, always a good test for me is when I just keep listening to my test songs through, rather than jumping around between tracks.

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A couple of days is not enough, give it two weeks with Cygnus, let them relax and settle in and get use to them yourself. I'd try them at your source first, imo.  When there is no need to jump around between tracks any longer, a sign of getting closer.  

@jtcf I was thinking of exactly the same thing of mixing and matching Cardas. Do you have any experience with the Parsec line? Cheaper and warmer. Thinking it could be interesting to consider for a longer speaker cable run I need to make.

Hello

i have about 4 years living with all Cygnus cabeling

and recently put in Clears from a Little Loco to JC2 preamp

sound is incredible and emotionally engaging 

At this level of cable they are all good

Good luck Willy -T

You probably had the Clear Reflection connected backward and the electrons got confused. 🙄

Update: listening to the Shunyata interconnects to DAC and to amps. Well heck, sounding pretty balanced and getting out of the way. Not wow, but just this sounds like music. Hmm, this won’t be easy to sort out. Both cable sets are quite good.

@w123ale Update: listening to the Shunyata interconnects to DAC and to amps. Well heck, sounding pretty balanced and getting out of the way. Not wow, but just this sounds like music. Hmm, this won’t be easy to sort out. Both cable sets are quite good.

That’s what matters the most. If you find a synergy that works for you in your system, trust your ears and ask yourself if you are more engaged in the music.

If you like the Shunyata, there you go. No need to look at Cardas Parsec or others mentioned prior. Cardas Cygnus is a more open and detailed IC. Parsec is a tad more veiled over and more grainy than Cygnus. Once you move up the line to standard Clear, it’s a smoother and different sound yet again. As mentioned before, I will share again - flip-flopping back and forth with Cardas and other cables does not work well, you gotta leave them be and not keep moving and messing with them for a few weeks, then rotate back to Shunyata again, will help to decide. Best of Luck.

@w123ale keep trying different cables. I would highly recommend Kimber KS 1126. Excellent balance top to bottom, air, dynamics, resolution, great tone and musicality in spades. You can pick up a used set for the cost of new Cardas Cygnus and try them out. Or continue on with a Shunyata Delta line. Your system is on a level of these interconnects. 

A year ago I auditioned $6K worth of Venom-X cables. The audible difference/improvement was like buying a new piece of electronic gear. Needless to say I kept all of those cables. At the time I was using Rogue M180s, Rogue RP-7, Focal Kanta No.2s, Yamaha CD-S1000, NAD C-658, Thorens TD-1601, Hegel V-10, Ortofon Cadenza Blue. A few months back I sold off the Rogue and Focals gear and am now using a Pass Labs XA25, a Rogue RH-5 preamp, and Wharfdale Linton speakers. For fun I went back to my old AQ Water cables. The Venom-X still sound much better in the new system. To my ears they are some outstanding cables and across at least 2 platforms. I have other amps I swap in and out and I don't seem to realize any negative change in sound quality I can tie directly to the cables.

Your mileage may vary.

@decooney I know I shouldn’t flip flop the cables, but I can’t help myself! Letting the Shunyata stay in the system for a while. Neutral, open, solid bass, detailed but not etched treble. I do think I need to try Delta interconnects. 

@w123ale "...detailed but not etched treble".

Did you find the Cygnus interconnects to be etched treble?

They are more revealing or have a tad more over-exposed sound in my system, depending on which dac or source I’m running. imo Cygnus gel better in a softer sounding system. THIS is why I resold them and went with another pair of Clear Reflection ICs, fwiw. However, it seems as if you got what you wanted with Shunyatas. Take extra time with each set of cables before swapping out/in.

IMO, all cables and all gear need about 200 hours (constant playing for 8 days) before they are near their best.  I put a cheap Chinese amp in my system to save my expensive tubes while that’s going on.

So, here are my current conclusions. Let’s state the obvious—cables make a significant difference in SQ. Now the question we are always working on is not what is best but what works in our individual systems and to our ears. 
 

So for my system, Shunyata is smooth and very easy to listen to without any fatigue. Solid dynamics and less edgy than my Wireworld, but not overly exciting. To use Darko’s analogy, it’s a sit back and relax cable that creates a cohesive sound. This is generally what I like.
 

Cardas is instantly wow, sit forward and hear things I haven’t hear before. It’s holy s*$& I didn’t know my system can do that sound. I was listening to Dark Side of the Moon and was floored, but depending on one’s mood can be too much. 

Comparing these cables, keeping in mind my speaker cables have remained unchanged (Wireworld), has been as big changes as swapping electrons. I love this discovery, because swapping cables is easier and more economical (to a degree). I could see having both sets honestly for different flavors.

For now I’ve made a small move towards Cardas with the order of a pair Cygnus interconnects which will allow me to try Cygnus between my DAC and Pre and amps.

That said, I’m marveling at the smooth musicality of the Shunyata set I’m listening to now. 

I have both Cardas Cygnus  I.Cs and speakers cables, for the last 4-5 years,  I added a Clear SPDIF cable earlier this year.  I have not tried any of Cardas P.C.s, I have no issues  with any of these cables and happy with the sound. The only other hi-end cable I tried was Nordost, and didn't care for them..... with the others being enrty to midfi cables. 

So, I got one set of Cygnus interconnects for my DAC to pre and using my borrowed Cygnus set from pre to monos. Holy hell—truly extraordinary. In my system these Cardas cables are like changing a major component like a DAC. Extraordinary sound stage width and height and separation between instruments. What I find most engaging is a feeling of physical texture to the music like I can touch it.
 

With the two Cygnus pairs there is now a synergy that wasn’t there when I was mixing them with the Clear Reflection. What this leads to in practice is that I can play nearly any music close to 100 dB—nasty metalcore, jazz, electronica, Taylor Swift, and outlaw country at levels that will peal paint. Nuff said.

I do of course now wonder how Clear and Beyond would sound.