Can a set of Ls50 metas surpass or equal a set of Kef blade metas with subwoofers

I replaced a pair of LS50 Metas, UltraRendu, Ayre DAC, preamp. and amp with a LS50 Wireless II to declutter the living room.  Both speakers are Metas so I assume they are equivalent.  I continue to use a pair of KC62 subs,  The LS50 Metas are boxed up, but I may keep them as back up.

On side note. My KC62 had a design flaw in the batch it was part of (wireless transmission). KEF asked me to send it back to them. When it came back to me it did not work. The shipping packaging was damaged, but the unit was also packed in the wrong way.

I did not make a big stink about it and was just going to get it fixed myself at George Meyer AV in Los Angeles. KEF stepped up and is sending me a new sub. 

It's common knowledge that no speaker does everything... l just wanted to Say that Paul McGowan CEO of PS Audio, who can have whatever he wants chooses a pair of LS50's with a sub for his personal home for general listening...that alone means something 

I think John Atkinson from Stereophile also uses the LS50 as his main speaker. I was surprised at that.

subs don't really fill in the midbass and that's a tall order for the little ls50's. I have a local KEF dealer and before the original ls50 price dropped to $1100 he was pretty confident the R3 was the better speaker for the money because the woofer helped fill out the bass. Now both those speakers retail for less than the sales tax on a pair of Blades so it would be nice. I think if I still got high a pair of R3's and a k62 would be more than enough to keep me engaged.

Agree with @vinnydabully.   Ls 50’metas are a benchmark setting product and every hifi enthusiast should hear a pair. 

My final thoughts on the LS50 metas are every audiophile who loves speakers should try a set.The tweeter midrange coherence is so good they will make speakers you thought were great for so many years sound recessed....IMO..I like them rolled off with subs..and a good mosfet solid state amp...

The control app for the LS50 Wireless II sets low-pass at 70 Hz and high-pass at 45 Hz when used with a pair of KC62s.  Integration of speakers and subs is excellent.  Even though it's a setup in the living room aimed at jazz and baroque music at moderate levels, it sounds very good with large orchestrations played at higher levels.  Sources are Roon, Oppo 205, and Sony 65 XBR ARC.

db 

@dbphd In the video posted above comparing the LS50+KC62 with the LS60 the KC62 is placed at the same height as the LS50 drivers. That is interesting.

The Blade sound is designed on coming from a single point source, so I wonder if placing subs in various parts of the room has the same point source resolution of the Blades.

BTW - I sold my Livingroom speaker this week and now it is Blades 2 Meta’s or bust. I am going to sell a few more audio pieces lying around to try to make this buy happen faster. I will initially use a KRELL Dou 175XD amp and the Benchmark LA4 preamp with the Blades.

In my small office the KRELL Duo 175 amp with the KEF LS50 + KC62 is shockingly good. The LS50 really shines in a small room.

What if the question were LS60 speakers with a pair of KC62 subs compared to Blade 2s? Anyone heard that comparison?

In a previous post about KEF Reference 1s augmented with Velodyne HS-15s I failed to mention that I use a KEF Reference 204/2C center speaker. The 204/2C was designed to match the KEF Reference 207/2s and is 3.5" wide and weighs 90 pounds.

db

strictly on output level the blades win easily.  

however for sound quality at moderate volume i prefer the LS50s.  

the SQ of the blades was disappointng to my ears.  

As a Bassist I'm likely spoiled, I've yet to hear speakers that have been positioned for their potential sound staging and their onboard powered subwoofers sound as good as two independent subwoofers located in the rooms two loudest bass modes.

I could not tell a difference, but I was using my computers DAC and work headphones.  Anyone hear a difference?

I put my very old KEF LS50 with my newish KC62 and I am very happy with the results. I had this combo in a big room, and it was OK but in my 12 x 11 x 9 office it is spectacular.  Better than the floor stander I had in that small room. Though the same floor stander sounded better than the KEF combo in my big room.

I would keep what you have...your reference 1's are light years better than LS50'S.....Everyone knows after a certain level in high end audio you start splitting hairs for 10's of thousands of dollars...One of my best purchases this year was a new high end chair for my listening room....

Advice to myself:  Reference 1s augmented by HGS-15s with Ayre gear sounds so good I'd be a fool to replace it.  The Reference 1s are high-passed, the HGS-15s acoustic room corrected.

db

It's common knowledge that no speaker does everything... l just wanted to Say that Paul McGowan CEO of PS Audio, who can have whatever he wants chooses a pair of LS50's with a sub for his personal home for general listening...that alone means something 

That is one thing I miss about KEF, their coaxial drivers.   I had a pair of RDM 2 and Reference 2,  the original from the early nineties.    Great imaging from small footprint boxes

The little KEFs are great but even with a sub they can not equal the Blades.   No Sub / Sat combo is quite like a good set of floorstanders.   

IMO...the metas are about as revealing a speaker as l have owned...lf lm going to play poorly recorded music l go in the garage and listen to my JBL'S...The metas don't throw a sound stage like my full range speakers but they have this "pin point accuracy " like no other...l will never sell them..

I listen to female vocals and jazz..Diana krall love scenes SACD tracks 10 and 11...l like it 80-90 db with 106 peaks in my seat...l don't care for rock music on my metas l have other systems for that...

Question, what kind of music and what volumes do you listen? With the LS 50’s, you really need a subwoofer for them to blossom. The Blade Meta’s are crossed at 350 and 2000 And the Reference 5 meta’s are crossed at 450 and 2100. I have the 5’s and almost never turn on the subwoofer. I’d assume the Blade Meta’s would be the same.

All the best.

I agree with YYZ, KEF LS60s plus subs will get closer to Blades, especially in terms of playing loud and scaling larger.

I would think a brand new set of Kef reference 5 meta's in black lacquer would be a great match with your HGS 15's...l can just picture it

I just switched from a pair of LS50 Metas with a pair of KC62s to LS50W IIs with the KC62s. I think the KEF DSP app does a great job of speaker-sub integration, better than I did. This is my first venture into powered speakers, so I may keep Metas or Magnepan LRS with ultraRendu and Ayre A7e as backup.

My primary setup is Reference 1s augmented by a pair of Velodyne HGS-15s, with Ayre 5/Twenty series electronics. I’m wondering about replacing that setup with LS60 and KC62s. I listen mostly to jazz and classical streamed by Roon at moderate levels. Any advice?

db

I agree, based on my experience,  it’s objectively hard to beat ls50 meta and even a single well integrated quality sub for good sound at spl levels most people would typically want. It can be done but not easy especially for the cost.

Having said that, subjectively one never can be sure what will tickle another’s fancy best so that is a totally different story.

I've tested my 8 inch subs...they will play upstairs in the 100 hz range quite nicely...lm very happy with the results..lm sure a set of blade metas and a six pack of Rel subs would do a better job...lm just so impressed what a 1500.00 dollar LS50 can do with subs..

l researched the blades and stereophile said the UNI Q module was crossed over at 300 if l read correctly..

The blades crossover from the woofers at 300hz based on measurements. Kef claims 350hz.

Those are, I believe, all in reference to the original Blades and not to the newer Meta versions where the crossover has been raised to 450Hz, according to KEF.

Probable not surpass or even equal, but your setup looks like it would sound very good.  One of the big points about the Blades is the full range dispersion pattern which your setup lacks.

Don’t discount the driver differences. 

The blades crossover from the woofers at 300hz based on measurements. Kef claims 350hz.

the sub will be fine at 80hz and down but there will most likely a sound power issue between the 80hz and 300hz crossovers if you ran the SL50 with subs. The big heavy drivers of subs don’t play really nice above 100hz. I am sure there are a few out there though.

At low level there might not be too much difference if your not critical but push the sound pressure and integration issues and distortion/compression will surely show it’s head

Personally I don’t care for subs with small speakers and I think they blend a lot better for critical music listening with larger speakers. Think of it as turning your large 3 way into a very large 4 way.

The Blades do have a better UniQ driver, I forgot the exact difference and that was for the non-meta comparison. I have the old LS50. I consider the LS50 a 3/10 and the old Blades a 10/10. The old Blades are incredible.

A better comparison for the OP is the new LS60 (the baby Blade). That is likely still better than what the OP has.

My old LS50 + KC62 sub is good but I will be upgrading that. I am considering the following:

- Blade 2 Meta

- Reference 1 Meta

- LS60

-Yamaha NS5000

I expect all of the above to be a lot better than the LS50 (meta) + sub. I love to get the Blade 2 Meta but it looks like the NS5000 will win out due to placement issues.

Yeah Blades are one of very few speakers in their price class that I would seriously consider owning. I love how KEF puts out extensive well written technical white papers to help explain and demonstrate (with metrics) how their products work and perform and how the design and technical innovation makes them unique. That’s the Engineer in me speaking.

I love the blades...l think the LS50's give people a little taste of what there whole product line can do....amazing 

No doubt the location of the powered bass drivers on Blade would be a plus and the high quality enclosure also a big plus so the whole Blade UniQ design seems quite unique and not emulated easily with separate sub enclosures instead. One of the few out there I would consider as challengers to Ohm CLS design. Metas have very good dispersion pattern and UniQ driver for coherency which is why I am a KEF fan as well as Ohm these days. But $35k? Ouch. Lots of quality engineering there but still ouch.

the blade use improved driver also the subs are delivering bass from the same point in space as the mid tweeter also the blade cabinet is a

composite

so the blades are still a lot better

Dave and troy

audiointellect nj

Kef blade dealer

Well my speculation is that if crossed over at high frequency to two or more good powered subs to enable higher spl without breakup,  the metas would get pretty close to Blades in sound.  Just speculating.  Good quality  monitors + powered subs set up well are almost always a more cost effective way to achieve a high level of performance.  Ls 50 metas are very very good…..again within their limits while one would expect Blades to remove those limits. 

I tried the metas "full range" and the woofers bottomed out before you could hit any realistic spl levels...l used a electronic crossover and metas have duties 140 hz. and up ...they can play amazingly loud now with no distortion...    l researched the blades and stereophile said the UNI Q module was crossed over at 300 if l read correctly..

I am almost certain that KEF is not selling them for 35k just for their look. They are well respected speakers for a reason. I am sure your system sounds good as configured. You might have created the perfect storm so to speak with your room acoustic and system synergy. Be happy. No need to go poking a bull. 

I hope not. Ls50 metas are great within their limits but their limit is spl level. I use a sub with mine and do not feel inclined to go louder than 90db even in the small room they are in. Maybe if I used an active crossover to roll off the low end on the metas that would help some I am sure.

I have large Ohm F5 in the next room off same amp. These are comparable in size to the KEF blades but cost way less. Those go loud and clear with no strain in comparison to metas + sub.

Correction...the title was meant to say LS50's with subwoofers vs. Blades