Building the Audio Note Kit 1 SET amp...

Rebbi, you certainly know how to execute a "cliffhanger". :^)

Everyone is tuned in waiting to hear how this turns out.

WHo shot JR?

Hey, Folks,
As Mapman wrote, it's been a little while since I posted in this thread so here's an update.
A few things are clear:
First, the Audio Note Kit 1 has more than enough juice to drive my Reference 3A De Capo's to satisfying volume levels with excellent dynamics. That question is put to bed.
Second, this amp is indeed a MAJOR step up from the Manley Mahi push-pull mono-blocks I had used previously. I have no doubt now about the wisdom of making the move. I'll have more to say about this in a full review after the amp is fully broken in. What I will say at this point is that if the Kit 1 sounds this gorgeous with the stock, pedestrian Chinese tubes, I can't wait to hear what it sounds like with better glass. :-)
Third, I am having one sonic issue on certain musical material that Brian of Audio Note is convinced is a build problem. Either I miswired something along the way (unlikely) or I else got a bad tube or other part in the Driver stage or something similar. Brian has been great about support and troubleshooting. I hope to have this resolved shortly and then I'll give all of you (and the blog) a fuller report.
Talk to you soon and thanks for your interest!

Hi Reb.

Thanks for the update. I'm sure you'll get it squared away.

One thing I recall from kit building days when something was not quite right was to check all solder connections to circuit boards for unintentional shorts.

Of corse there is always the chance of a defective part or one not fully up to spec.

Sounds like an is taking good care of you and I know you are patient so the force should be with you.

✊

Starting to share my listening impressions of the Kit 1 on the blog. Have a look and enjoy.

I have been reading the responses to your amp and speaker combo on another thread Rebbi. First off, great job on the build as I know how much work it is! Well done.

I am still building and modifying my preamp and amps today. Just added a battery powered filament supply for my preamp and it was a great deal of fun.

My opinion will differ from others you have seen, but that is a good thing as you want all perspectives. I think the speaker is the most important component and you should build your system around it starting with the amp first. The amp/speaker synergy is the first one to consider. If you love your speakers, and they give you the sound you like, then build around them. Your freshly built amp is not the ideal match. It may be on vocals and jazz, but when your musical appetite changes and you want some dynamically challenging classical music or whatever, the SET amp simply cannot deliver with your speakers. The type of music one plays is hugely important.....more so than the speaker's efficiency in many cases.

You must decide first if you love your speakers and build around them first. You don't build a system around an amp...or one should not do that IMHO. Speakers impact the sound more than any other component. I also believe the source component and preamp are MORE important than the amp assuming the amp's quality meets a minimum hurdle of synergy and sound quality.

I have owned, built, and modified more tube amps than I can share here. Yes, 2a3 SET, 45 SET, 300B SET, OLT's, push/pull, monster SS, Class D...Ok, you get the picture.

You can achieve the same kind of immediacy, resolve, tone etc...that you are now enjoying with another amp that is not SET. You can. Your Audionote contact has told you the same about an EL34 KIT amp and he is absolutley right. Your speakers will come alive even more than they do with your 8 watt amp. It is indeed possible. It must be the right amp, right design, right parts and it can happen.

I am getting a SET like sound on my 90db 8 ohm speakers with push/pull homemade amps and even SS amps that are very special. The key here the system's sound. Everything ahead of the speaker helps deliver a "SET" type of sound. Everything. The right preamp, amp, and source all work together to deliver the final sonic signature. Don't become too amp focused or you will miss the woods for the trees.

This hobby is all about slight trade offs. You will gain many nice things keeping your current speakers and going to a more powerful amp. Gaining many things the SET amp will never do in your system. You will be able to match most, but perhaps not all, of the intimacy and directness of your SET amp. The end result will still be very pleasing and a substantial upgrade.

I have been able to achieve all the intimacy and directness of a SET in my system without having to "settle" for 8 watts. It is possible. I know the SET sound as I have owned plenty of great SET amps. I loved what they (SET) did on my already beautiful sounding jazz and vocal albums/CD's. Oh my. However, I had the same experience as you on more dynamically infused music. The SET amp just fell short. Understand, your sound is suffering well before you hear distortion or clipping. The lack of dynamic headroom is constricting the music's dynamics well before the clipping stage.

Bottom line is this. Do you love your speakers? Will they reveal what any upgraded component delivers? if so, keep them and change your amp.

Shopping for a new speaker can be a most fustrating experience as finding one that suits your tastes is hard, hard work. The speaker IS the main source of your systems sound personality and the amp while important, falls far behind.

I tend to agree with Grannyring in terms of relative importance of things.

The thing is, in a smaller room in particular there are many ways to skin the cat. So one can start with a low power amp and build around that more reliably in that there will be many choices for speakers. BUT, to get to the "end game" on teh grand scale of things,what you give up in terms of speaker power for other reasons has to be made up somewhere. The speakers needed to accomplish the ultimate sound as opposed to a compromised one in some cases at least will likely cost more. SO there is no free lunch, other than that it is always easier to produce good sound on a smaller scale than a larger one, ie in a smaller room than a larger one. I have seen some end up with SET amps and 100DB+ full range horns that are both big and expensive in order to achieve that ultimate sound, even in modest quarters.

So again, like usual, it all depends. No single right answer.

People often claim their particular amplifiers have near/same vitrues as a SET but with more power. If that's their experience I'll have to take their word for it. You can build a system around speakers or an amplifier. What's true is that either choice will require compromise and trade offs, no exception to this fact. I've heard no SS or large tube amp that sounds like a "well implemented" SET, obviously others have different opinions, that's life.

Lower power amps do require careful speaker selection. Well, lower efficiency speakers by the same token placed limitations on amplifier choices,yep, compromise. Rebbi you've heard what your 300b SET can do and prior amp couldn't. If you can find a non SET to give you what your current AN kit amp does, buy it! If Grannyring gets SET sound from his SS amps then congratulations. I've never heard this in my own experiences.

Certainly he may enjoy and prefer his present amps, I totally understand that with no problem. My point is Nothing will sound like a good SET other than a good SET. If that isn't what someone seeks, that's a different story.
Rebbi it's very possible you may love the AN el34 alternative(maybe even prefer it). My point,it won't mimic tour SET because it isn't a 300b SET which you have recently been introduce to. SET is not limited to any music genre "if" the proper speaker is matched with the amplifier. Yes the speaker is important, so is the amplifier to build a fine system.

Many good pathways available for good sound, we all decide which direction suits our goals the best.
Good Kuck,
Charles,

Grannyring,
I think you bring a really valuable perspective. Do you want the amp to sing or the speakers to sing? Or, ideally, both?
Brian Smith of Audio Note Kits says that their high-end EL34 is a fantastic piece of work that combines the delicacy and magic of SET with the guts and drive of push-pull. He's definitely encouraging me to try it.
Decisions, decisions!

The technology is just a means to the end which is to make good sounding music. What sounds good, or more so best, is always a matter of personal opinion. Different technologies provide a different set (no pun) of tools to achieve ones goals. Teh goals will determine the best way to get there.

I have only heard one SET (i think it was a set, very pricey audio notes as I recall) that sounded perfect to me on a larger scale. That was a six digit system at a show. The large custom horns involved alone were well over 6 digits.

It goes against my engineeering acumen to think that older technology can systematically beat newer technology. Maybe in some cases, but technology moves on beyond just refinements to old solution to radically different ones. Which is better? Who knows? I can only be certain that technology moves forward at light speed as evidenced all around. Is making good sound so much more of a challenge? I do not see it. Its an abstract argument I know but I think a valid one in general.

Rebbi,
With the De Capo the AN Kit el34 push pull is most likely a better match. You'd need to compare that to your amp with a suitable speaker and listen. IMO 300b offers superior sound quality vs an el 34 tube.

I wonder how OTL tube amps like Atmasphere for example would do with the Decapos.

One thing about tube amps for sure is that I do not think I have ever heard two that sounded exactly the same, even with the same architecture.

Interesting thread Here on the topic of OTL and push/pull.

In rebbi's case I think he has to keep the SET and find teh right speakers. After all, he built the amp. Its his personal creation.

The Refs are nice but you can always buy a new pair of good speakers.

Then again this amp is famous by now. You might be able to sell it for a profit to help finance the next phase! :^)

The right SS amp in the right total system can indeed sound very much
like a good SET amp system. It it the complete combination. The amp is but
one piece.

I love tube amps of all types and find the great ones deliver sound that is
beautiful and "SET" like regardless of wether they are or are not
SET or DHT amps. In fact, I would argue the sound variance is just as wide
between the multitude of DHT SET amps out there.

Many designs and combinations of designs with carefully matched gear
can deliver that engaging SET type sound. This can be learned by
experience and trying lots of gear. No shortcuts. Some of us have been
there and learned that.

I am confident Rebbi can indeed experience the same type of sound he is
now enjoying with a well chosen more powerful amp and perhaps preamp.

Mapman, yes indeed Rebbi now has a deeper connection to this amp!

"The right SS amp in the right total system can indeed sound very much
like a good SET amp system. It it the complete combination. The amp is but
one piece"

I'm glad to hear someone else believes this too as well as me. If I am whacked, at least I am not alone.

Grannyring:
"Deeper connection to the amp" indeed. I almost can't imagine buying a finished piece of electronics at this point. The build process was just SO satisfying! And I learned so much.
Also, I'd have no hesitation to pop the bottom off the chassis and fix or upgrade a part, which I'd never dream of doing with a finished product.
I wouldn't claim to understand the Kit 1 as Andy Grove or Brian Smith understand it - I’m not an electrical engineer. But I certainly understand how it works in the sense of how it fits together, and that's a cool feeling! :-D

Yep, that connection and sense of accomplishment would seem to be the irreplaceable part of the equation at this time.

Lots of nice suitable fish er I mean speakers in the sea....

Mapman,
Actually there's no disagreement that there are multiple ways to obtain excellent sound, that's recognized here. I just differ that one topology will mimic another. Perhaps it has happened for some but it hasn't been the case for me. I can only reflect on my experiences just as you and others do the same. Anyway its been an interesting exchange of varying points of view. Rebbi has intriguing options to ponder. Rebbi if you find a non SET that does what your current AN Kit amp does as described in your blog please share that discovery with me,
Thanks,

Charles I'll agree with that. Its hard to make exactly the same tasting soup when significantly different ingredients are used. But a good chef might get pretty close. And each chef will likely think their way is better.

Rebbi, I concur with your comment that "I will never buy another piece of electronics". I will not except for a digital front end. I can build the rest for far less money and with much better sound. Plus I love building and learning.

I am spending far more time on DIY forums as compared to this site and other sites like it. I just find DIY so interesting.

Knowledgeable DIY'ers can put bought high end audio to shame. I've seen and heard it with my own ears at Capital Audiofest a couple years back. I'm surprised they let those guys in. They made many the big ticket vendors look silly.

Rebbi, When I was building my system I faced some of the same issues. I didnt want to spend a ton of money and I listened to a wide variety of music. Rock, pop, Jazz Classical. You have an amp that you built that is capable of playing all of the music you love. I know it can because I had a Kit one in my home and it is a kick ass amp and persuaded me to build my own SET amp. You built it and have a deep connection with it. It is also a platform in which you can make upgrades. If you did sell it you would end up regretting it.
When I was searching for speakers I took my amp on audition after audition for several months until I finally heard the speakers that with my amp could play every type of music that I love. I can crank the volume without a preamp playing all types of music and am treated to involving room filling goodness.

If you live in the NYC area there are many avenues for audition including many guys on this forum who would open their homes to you including me.

Jet,
As with you, I have no limits on music genres. For a given amplifier you simply must find the appropriate speaker. If Rebbi decided to keep the De Capo, same principle, find the appropriate amplifier. Either way it requires the right amp-speaker match. The question is which one do you keep and build around? The marriage analogy does apply, it's about compatibility. Jet I know from past postings you listen to "many" types of music without difficulty.
Charles,

Jetrexpro and Charles, while your comments are certainly true about shopping for another speaker, I am at a total loss as to why both of you would suggest this is the best path? Both of you are very knowledgeable and rightly respected here on the Gon. The list of reasons to amp shop, not speaker shop is long and persuasive.

- The speaker is the most important component in a system and impacts the tone and personally of the system FAR more than the amp.

- The speaker is far more difficult to shop for and find one that suits your preference. Finding the right speaker is a chore and will take more effort.

- The speaker is a much more difficult and hassle prone item to sell. It is heavy, hard to ship, expensive to ship, prone to damage etc...

- The speaker is usually the more expensive item to buy and sell as compared to the amp.

Rebbi can build another amp and AN has already said they will work with him on another amp.

If both of you are suggesting to keep the amp because of some emotional attachment to it due to the building process, then so be it. I think that line of thinking will lead to many more problems down the road with assembling the system around another set of speakers.

Rebbi if you enjoy the building process, then build another amp and have fun! In the end your ears will be even more pleased and you will have gained additional knowledge and experience. Let me suggest that while this first build of yours delivered great sound, you can certainly do as good or better on your next build. Additionally you will have an amp better suited for your speaker. Great sound, the kind you are now hearing, is absolutely available in a PP or parallel single ended tube amp.

Hi Bill,
My point is either choice/path ia very viable. Where we part company is the "common wisdom" that the speaker is more important. Many believe that and I realize I'm in the minority but that's okay with me.Can excellent sound be obtained with non SET amplification, of course! However there are certain qualities that SET does better and to a higher level IMO. This is strictly a personal observation on my part and you and others may not agree, again I understand this.

SET (the good ones)yield the best tonality,timbre, harmonics and sense of naturalness I've "ever" heard(the list of amplifiers is long). I am simply reflecting my personal experiences and speak for no one else. I believe Rebbi based on his written listening impressions has heard these special qualities as well.

If Rebbi finds or builds a non SET that has the same effect on him then that's wonderful. That's for him to decide. SET pushed specific musical buttons like no other amp in my listening experiences. Certainly things could/ may be different for Rebbi. I wish him the best regardless of which path he follows.
Charles,

I certainly agree almost 100% with you Grannyring except for one thing, I didn't read anything that Rebbi was unsatisfied with the Decapo/AN amp, are you Rebbi? He has indicated in the past that his preference for music is small scale which could be most satisfying with that in mind. I would agree with you fully if his tastes leads to large scale dynamic music over time that he would have to decide on whether or not to keep the speakers and find another amp or keep the amp and find far more efficient speakers. I'm also in agreement that it is most difficult finding a speaker that is satisfying, particularly at a given price point and in my NOT dedicated listening room, at least it has proven true for myself. It seems Rebbi was VERY deliberate in his choice and listened carefully before going ahead with the AN. The real benefit, regardless of the outcome, is the experience of the process, really commendable.

Rebbi has commented on other threads that the amp clips and does not have enough power on certain kinds of music. Thus my comments.

Charles, understand and thanks for the comments.

My experience confirms that different tube circuits can indeed deliver that SET sound in the context of a total system.

Bill,
I always appreciate your perspectives/impressions.
Take Care,

Always avoid clipping even if subtle.

How hard it will be to find new speakers and how much will largely depend on how much bass extension is needed. If not full range it won't be hard or expensive.

Rebbi, for the sake of De Capo owners in the future looking to experiment with SET it may be beneficial to explain why this thread took the turn it has. Earlier in the thread you commented that the power issue had "been put to bed".

As a fellow De Capo owner I can relate to what you are going through now. I had a similar experience pairing the DC's with SET. Ultimately I decided it was the DC's that I couldn't part with and found a PP that has made me very happy. Best of luck in the next chapter.

P.S. Take a look at Omega, particulary the Super Alnico Monitor. Affordable and they offer a 30 day return if not happy.

Rebbi- if you think that your amp clips "a little" you might want to consider a sub or pair of subs with its own amplification. I know the ref 3s roll off but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether that affects the amp trying to amplify those low frequencies which really gobble up the power.

i'd be willing to bet a sub or two would resolve the problem.

Not only resolve it but allow the set to do what it does best even better . Offload the power hungry lowest octave or so and you can have it all for reasonable cost. It's a no brainet for me to eliminate the problem and grt the most out of what he has

I wasn't aware of the thread where he stated the amp clips on certain music but I'm not at all suprised. I would have been quite surprised if this wasn't the case. 8 watts is just not enough power for those speakers on dynamic full range music regardless of what any of the manufacturers may have inferred to him at the outset.

Tube you are right of course. I recall going through the risks with reb beforehand. We were all hoping for the best but knew the risks. So no toap surprise i suspect. One just has to complete the journey. Often one big move calls for followups before all is well. Powered subs blended well will add cost but resolve the problem and retain and likely even improve further the good things currently heard. Changing speakers runs the risk of additional trial and error until the right ones are found. Chances are they will not sound just like decapos but maybe even better once overall good karma happens

These kinds of problems is what makes this stuff fun as long as one has patience and proper financing. :^]

Agree Mapman, this could be a solution if Rebbi is committed to the Decapos. BUT that is a completely different road and matching a subwoofer to a given speaker in a seamless manner in a given room is a tricky task, at least IME. Over the years I have heard very few systems that pull this off successfully, at least to my satisfaction which is why I avoid them. The last guy that recommended that I try it had MAJOR issues with his full range speakers in a large room which included dual subwoofers which were all too obvious to me if not him.

With subs its up to the buyer to do the integration to their satisfaction. It takes some time and discipline but is doable usually. Ive done it to my satisfaction in the past but it required a lot of focus and a clear goal it can be done by ear or with help of tools designed for the task. Rebbi built his own amp so i suspect he would get it done well. Its just audio though not life and death. Lots of ways to skin the cat.

Regarding the possibility of adding a sub, in addition to the concerns about integration that have been raised I would have some concern that the high pass filter and other circuitry in the sub, that would be in the path between the preamp and the SET amp, might noticeably compromise the SET magic.

And then of course there is the cost of the sub, which would be purely an additional cost rather than a cost that could be offset, at least partially, by selling the existing speakers or amp.

FWIW, although under the great majority of circumstances I am in the "build the system around the speakers" camp, in this particular set of circumstances, all things considered, as I indicated in Charles' system description thread where this has been under discussion my vote would be for a speaker replacement.

Best regards,
-- Al

Grannyring,
Your right - Knowing the thrill of building audio equipment my comments are based on how Rebbi must feel about building that amp. I dont have knowledge of all the amp topologies available but if one can build an a amp that can drive the Decapos but also sound like a 300b SET amp I am all in! And I agree it is more difficult to shop for speakers than an amp.

Rebbi has to decide which route he wants to travel. Sub woofer, new amp, new speakers. But I doubt he is going to find an amp that sounds as good as the Kit1 for the amount he paid. I have read many DIY forums and the guys who built the AN EL34 or 84 amp and then eventually build an AN 300b SET prefer the 300b and not by a small margin. If I were Rebbi I would do some research. Borrow a subwoofer, hear his amp with different speakers, hear his speakers with different amps. From reading his blog, he already prefers the Kit1 to the Manley from a sheer musical stand point. He can be patient and not spend any money and come to the decision that works best for him.

If I had a vote I'd throw my hat in with Almarg and Charles' advice given the circumstances; plus I doubt SS can sound similar to DHT SET, I'll have to take Grannyring's word for that, but it must be ball-busting difficult to pull that off. I wonder how Brownsfan's 8 watt Coincident SET Dynamo 34SE is managing with the DeCapos? I have 95db 8 ohm Tektons that handle all music with aplomb. It's dynamic and goes as loud as I want it to in my 14x16 room. Rarely do I push the volume control beyond 10 o'clock which is loud, small club live sounding. At that anything past that volume my wife has to run out of the room. Good luck all this has been a great thread.

Wow, so many interesting perspectives. How much fun would it be to get all of us together in the same place to talk audio and music? ;-)

Mikirob,
I am very curious about your Tektons. They are SO reasonably priced and I'm wondering whether they're "too good to be true." On the other hand, they consistently get very, very positive reviews from so many sources. Part Time Audiophile (Scott Hull) loves them, for instance.
The De Capo's are a very refined speaker, although, like everything else audio, they're not for everyone. So I'm wondering whether a speaker like the Lore, which is 1/3 the price of a new pair of De Capo's, can match their refinement. So do tell: how do you like your Tektons?

Swampwalker and others: I understand the subwoofer suggestion and appreciate that practical wisdom None the less, I don't think I want to go down that road. It feels to me like potentially adding one more complication to my rig, which I'm not eager to pursue. I'll sacrifice "the bottom octave" to get a well integrated sound from a single pair of speakers. Maybe that's foolish of me but it's where I am right now.

Almarg: Always love to hear your suggestions and appreciate your calm guidance. ;-)

Grannyring: As I've said before, your points are well taken. Brian believes, for example, that his tricked out EL34 push-pull is unbelievably brilliant and "SET-like." It's an Andy Grove design, like the Kit 1, so that’s worth something.

Tubegroover: To clarify in response to your comments of 2/7/15: I was never unhappy with my previous Manley/De Capo combo. I'd learned that I liked tubes a lot more than SS (I'd had a Bel Canto Class D amp prior to the Manley's). It was the comment of a fellow in Switzerland (IIRC) with the monitor "morricab" on Audio Asylum - a big Ref 3A fan - who said, "If you really want to hear the De Capo's sing, try them with the SET amp," that sent me down this rabbit hole! (Go to the blog post called "Why SET" to get a fuller picture if you're interested - and if you're not, I'm not insulted!) Anyway, I have no regrets; it's been super fun. And I will reiterate: the AN Kit 1 is a superb music maker... I'll be posting Part II of my listening impressions in a day or two. What I'm finding is that for much of what I like to listen to (and my music collection is VERY eclectic) the De Capo/Kit 1 combo is fine... with many flashes of smile-inducing brilliance. But some music, especially pop music with hip-hop-like synth bass (standard bass guitar or acoustic bass seems more than fine) will, at room energizing volume levels, cause the amp to clip in a way that's not subtle. Turning down the volume stops the clipping.
I should emphasize that in many ways it's amazing what the Kit 1 CAN do with 8 watts into a questionably "92 db, 8 ohm speaker" (which may in reality be more like 87 db and 6 ohms if you believe the NRC measurements). Can it rock? Oh, heck yeah! I was listening to the Eagles Greatest Hits 2 CD set. The opening of Victim Of Love, raucous guitars and loud drum hits and all, sounded amazing! I was grinning like the proverbial kid in the candy store. The amp seems to have no problem with "instrumental" bass, electric or acoustic. But I have a 13 year old daughter who turned me on to Lorde's album "Pure Heroine," which is full of very low, sustained synth bass lines and turning the amp up to "let's party" levels causes the amp to clip. (On the other hand, Lorde's voice sound eerily real.) Same with a few tracks from another album I love, Sade's latest "Soldier Of Love." Do I sell my speakers for the sake of a few songs from a few albums... well, maybe. ;-)

reb triangle speakers are worth the look. Similar design concept with the crossover to ref3a at least in some models similar to mine not expensive very refined and possibly efficient enough for real to get you over that hump

Something has hit me here in this thread . Somebody mentioned how Audio Notes speakers don't have the typical numbers for SET friendly speakers but they work because the Audio Note amps are built to compliment their speakers .
Charles is espousing the merit of his Coincident SET amps being used with his Coincident speakers .
Neither of these companies speakers are in the high efficiency camp but they work quite well with their own SET amps .

Hmmm !

My understanding is the audio notes rely on corner placement to reinforce the bass similar to a horn effect which makes them more amenable for tube amplification in general. I heard a pair not sure how fancy at capital audio fest a few years back. Off some tube amp I do not recall and they were one of the better sounds at the show I thought.

My understanding is the audio notes rely on corner placement to reinforce the bass similar to a horn effect which makes them more amenable for tube amplification in general. I heard a pair bot sure how fancy at capital audio fest a few years back. Off some tube amp I do not recall and they were one of the better sounds at the show I thought.

Rebbi,
The more comments you post, the more evident it seems(at least to me) that you love what this 300b SET is doing. Your reference point is the formerly owned Manley el34 push pull. Based on your clearly written comments the SET is an obvious step above and has taken you to another sonic level. It seems the vast majority of your music is presented beautifully. A small niche of music causes a problem.

The Manley is a very good push pull el34,is the AN Kit el34 going to be that much above the Manley? It's possible. I just strongly suspect that your 300b is the more musically satisfying and "special" amplifier. Anyway I look forward to reading part two of your listening sessions. I believe the SET has made the all important communication, emotion/involvement/soul reaching level that your Manley couldn't give you(otherwise you wouldn't have notice such a difference between them).
Rebbi I base this conclusion solely on what you've written. Am I wrong?
Best Regards,
Charles,

Rebbi,
There is a reason why Enjoy the Music, Stereomojo, Tim Smith, 6 Moons and his Wall of Sound review have given the Tektons (various models) high praise and Awards. Scott Hull in Part-Time as well, amongst many others. Those synth bass tracks would not be clipping with the Tektons, they would sound glorious; the mids and highs too.

There was a few years back an extremely long thread about the Tekton Lore, with many different A-gon members singing Tekton praises with over 10-14 pages of mostly positive comments. That is where these speakers came to my attention and I decided to take a flyer on them. So, now I own 3 models, the 4.5 monitors, M-Lore and Lore. They are very good, well balanced and would likely sound great with the An Kit-1 IMHO. You must read the various reviews and comments on these speakers, they reflect the truth(s) about these speakers. The Awards and positive comments are not hyperbole, or due to large ad budgets, but word-of-mouth praise by the knowledgeable audiophile.

The above mentioned reviewers have listened to the best equipment out there. They have given the Tektons high praise. I hate saying it this way, but so have I. I've been fortunate to have owned or listened extensively to some great speakers, starting with my parents big Tannoy, KLH9s, Bozaks, JBLs. Since college, Dynaco A25, Advents, more KLH, Yamaha, Heil, Walsh, Spendor, Magnepans, Quad 57s, Rogers LS3/5, Kef 104, C30 and C40, I believe, Vandersteen 1Bs, 2CE, Sound Dynamics 300ti, Infinity, Harbeth, Fried, too many to list. My point, the Tektons with 93-98 db efficiency, easy 8ohm impedance, great bass down to 34hz with the Lore, lower with some other models, low relative cost, is an astoundingly great gift to the audiophile, especially those with a moderate budget or low-power SET amps.

mik have you heard each Teuton model with a low power set? Some Teutons extend lower than others I read. I have no doubt those that extend only to 50hz or so would have much problem but I am less certain about those that extend into the 30 hz range. A lot more power is needed for those lower frequencies than down to only 50 or so. Efficiency ratings might not reflect the lowest frequencies as Reb suspects is the case with the decapos. Just wondering. I would be concerned myself going in with any low power amp and moderate efficiency speakers that are not big but extended