Rebbi,
There is a Zu vs. Tekton thread on the Audiogon. It was a couple years ago and was very good, a lot of posts pro/con back and forth. If I can summerize it overwhelmingly came out in favor of Tekton. The Zu's apple to apple cost much, much more. Do yourself a favor and look it up. I believe it started by a fellow named gpowered. Many A-gon regulars posted. |
Right, I have seen that one. I may go back and take another look. It's huge, as I remember! |
Mikirob, like you, I also detected some mission drift occurring. That is the nature of audiophiles. This is what I want, wow, this is great, now how do I make it better? Rebbi is doing what we all do when we make that first step from midfi to the good stuff. God bless him and keep him. I have felt your your pain, Rebbi!
This is exactly why I backed off from the "mission" for a while. There is no perfect system at any price. We all have to come to terms with what we value most, and what we are willing to do without. That period of introspection is mandatory for Rebbi at this point, I think. |
Brownsfan,
Your eloquence, kindness and clear thinking is truly what helps make threads like this, Audiogon, worthwhile. Rebbi has a huge rooting section here, he has stimulated outstanding conversation. I look forward with great interest to the next part of your blog. |
Reb on the other thread you were asking about single driver speakers. There is always that option. Could work out. It has for some others in these parts. I always find the ones horn loaded for the bass to be interesting. Then there are the Tonians. I've heard good things about those as well and I like the concept. I've always regarded certain Klipsch as a viable option as well for a low power tube amp someday. |
Brownsfan and Mikirob:
:-D |
Mapman:
Interesting thoughts.
I've heard the newer Klipsch gear dismissed with the same "mid-fi" label/attitude as some people talk about Bose... although not quite as forcefully! My concern with Klipsch these days is that they are making so many different speaker models that it's hard to tell what's what. Amazon.com alone has a dizzying range of Klipsch speakers for sale. But if anybody knows of a great one in the sub-2K dollar range, I'd be glad to check it out.
As for single drivers, I spoke to Louis, the owner-designer of Omega, sometime last week. He does offer a 30-day trial. If you look at that single driver thread I started, though, a lot of the chatter was VERY negative. My gut from what I've read is that a wide-range driver topped off by a tweeter for the highest frequencies is the way to go. But again, if any of you have heard an efficient, single-driver speaker in the sub $2K price range that you liked, let us know! |
Klipsch forte 2 used are the ones I have taken notice of most. 99db efficiency I believe is the spec.
Hmm negative reactions to Klipsch a line that has probably sold more speakers and been around longer than 90% of the lines around here. Not exclusive enough I suppose. In any case used forte 2 can be had for 500 or so used in good shape and have a big following so no problem would be had reselling. You never know until you try. I have heard several of their more modern lines as well and thought them to be quite good even off modest amplification. Hard to beat for high efficiency per $$$ which matters a lot with just a few watts to play with. |
New Klipsch Heresy II that just fit your budget new reviewed by Absolute Sound. THese are the other Klipsch that stay on my radar screen for affordable true high efficiency speakers. Older versions come up used for less regularly. These were originally made with low power tube amps in mind back in the day. |
Hi Rebbi,
I've really enjoyed your blog inspiring!
A while back, in your original thread about amplifiers (before you chose the AN kid), I mentioned Common Sense Audio's affordable Audio Nirvana SET, which impressed me at RMAF. They also offer high efficiency speaker drivers and kits which were similarly impressive - see below for a link. If I'm not mistaken he has a partnership with a builder as well in the event you don't want to go the DIY route you'd have to ask him though.
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/nirvana.html
For the record, once again, I have no affiliation with Common Sense Audio/Audio Nirvana (most who know me would say I have no affiliation with common sense, period! ;)
Good luck! |
Mapman, with a low-end that only reaches down to 58hz why would Rebbi want this speaker? the deCapo goes deeper and is better all-round. Rebbi's small complaint was that the DeCapo did not capture the lower octave on stuff with Synth bass with his 300B. The Heresy is even less capable in that regard. |
Rebbi's small complaint was that the DeCapo did not capture the lower octave on stuff with Synth bass with his 300B. Rob, more precisely the complaint was that the amp clips when reproducing that and other material having high volume content at deep bass frequencies. Clipping, in turn, results in distortion of ALL frequencies that may be simultaneously present, including harmonics and other frequency components produced by the synth at much higher frequencies, as well as notes that may be simultaneously produced by other instruments or singers. Resolving that problem while continuing to use the Kit 1 amp calls for a speaker having considerably greater efficiency than the De Capo provides. How well and to what degree the speaker can reproduce deep bass frequencies is a separate question. Although the Klipsch's 99 db/1W/1m efficiency rating is arguably somewhat optimistic, as is pointed out in the review, it is undoubtedly MUCH more efficient than the De Capo. My comment should not be interpreted, however, as advocacy for the Klipsch. Best regards, -- Al |
Mik its very efficient and designed to work well with low power tube amps and within budget.
As pointed out most speakers have trade offs. Whether not its the speaker for rebbi or not who knows. Its certainly a viable candidate. Bass need not be as extended usually in a small room and many feel these deliver quality bass especially off just a few watts which seems logical due to high efficiency enabling more bass per watt. Its one on my radar screen for a low power tube amp. |
Al,
Yes, that nails it. The De Capo's will dig down to around 42 Hz according to their spec sheet. While that's not the deepest of the deep, with my old Manley's at 20 watts, it would produce a good, clean sense of the very deep bass notes in some of the CD's that have been causing me trouble.
I have now proven through experimentation that the Kit 1 can produce those frequencies cleanly as well, but ONLY if I turn the volume down to considerably lower levels than what I'd normally set to play these tunes. So yes, it's a matter of the amp running out of steam with the De Capo's. This amp really needs and deserves a much more efficient pair of speakers in order to strut its stuff.
I've tentatively decided that if I go to a new set of speakers, the first ones I'll try are something in the Tekton lineup - Eric recommended the Lore or Lore 2.0 for my amp and room size. I've been reading through the Zu Omen vs. Tekton Lore thread on Audiogon, and the happiness expressed there by Tekton owners is very impressive. And although I was concerned about whether the Tekton Lore would be revealing enough to show the strengths of the Kit 1, everyone seems to feel that the sound is very musical, transparent and refined.
A'gon member sebrof lives not too far from me and I'm going to get together with him in the next few days to hook my Kit 1 up to one of his high efficiency speakers to see how the sound comes together. I'll report back to all of you!
May I say in the meantime that I'm working on another blog post that'll hopefully be up tomorrow. I am happy to report that the amp continues to burn in and sound increasingly stunning. I was listening to a James Taylor live CD today called One Man Band and the sense of being in the hall was so real it was... well... unreal. I am not given to hyperbole but shoot, this thing is fabulous. :-) If you have any kit building ambitions at all, I highly encourage you to give this a try. As long as you take your time, you can build this thing. |
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Rebbi,
I have a gut feeling that the Tekton Lore is an excellent choice when all is considered. I have no reason to doubt Mikirob's strong impression and enthusiasm. If the Lore is as open a nd transparent as many have reported you amp should simply shine and just sing with musical truth. I look forward to read if reality matches my expectations. This could be quite the special pairing.
Charles, |
Almarg, thanks I've always understood all that. That's why l've pushed for Rebbi to consider a higher efficient speaker like Tekton or others at his price point with the added benefit of better/lower bass. There won't be any clipping with the Tekton Lore, 98db, benevolent 8 ohm load, 30hz bass. I'm getting that right now (listening to John Mayall's Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton) with no clipping. That is with the little Coincident Dynamo 34SE 8 Watts. And I am playing this LOUD! In a 14x16 room. Earlier, I was playing Lorde, I believe a cut that made Rebbi's system clip. No problems here, played it loud enough to chase me from the room. |
At any rate, when Rebbi trots over to Sebrof's place he can settle for himself whether or not the Tekton works for him with the AN Kit 1. I've grown tired of this dicussion, I don't have a dog in this fight, just trying to be helpful. |
Does Sebrof have tektons? I saw some interesting large DIY HE speakers with HEIL tweeters on his system link here that I was under the impression he whipped together himself?
They were BIG and all custom built I gathered! I think I saw Sebrof estimated 95db efficiency or so. Big usually helps with the bass off just a few watts. I'm imagining teh sound with a SET would be impressive and perhaps a challenge to match if not DIY. I'll be very interested in hearing teh results with Tekton Lore if that is the case as well. I would expect the clipping issues resolved as well with Tekton Lore especially if they are truly 98 DB efficient or even close. |
I believe Sebrof still owns the Tekton. Maybe he will chime in. Or, you might read his comments on the old Zu vs Tekton forum discussion? |
Mikirob,
Spoke with Eric today and got some more details on the Lores. Eric is great to talk to. One thing I appreciate is that when I first mentioned to him that I was thinking of replacing my De Capo's, his immediate reaction was, "Very nice speaker." That he didn't take the opportunity to bash someone else's product (which I've seen/heard others do under similar circumstances) was a plus for me. We spoke about the Lore vs. Lore 2.0 and also about whether I'd get grills and/or a cap upgrade. If I do say goodbye to the De Capo's that's the direction I'll move in.
Sebrof does have his big, home-brew horns that he runs with a little 2A3 SET (also home brew, I think). But he still has his Tekton Katz Meow's and that's what I'll be trying with the Kit 1. Let's see what the amp sounds like driving a really easy load! I will report back.
New Listening Impressions blog post almost ready, folks, so stay tuned. |
Mdemaio,
Yes, I remember and I also remember hanging out on the commonsenseaudio web site and talking to David Dicks, the owner. You can build a speaker around one of his drivers for very little money. I'd do that as a fun project once I have speakers I'm really happy with and can afford to just have fun. But at this point I'd like more of a sure thing. ;-) |
Okay, latest blog post is up. |
Hi Rebbi,
As your amplifier burns in it steadily sounds better and impresses you more, no surprise. Keep this in mind for perspective, you're using generic 300b tubes, yet the amp sounds very good. Further down the road you may have the chance to try the better 300b tubes. They are a substantial improvement. You have tremendous upside potential in that "simple" circuit amplifier. Better quality power cords improve things as well. There's much that 8 watt amp has to offer. These types of amps are so transparent and pure that you'll hear any upgrades or changes. As you recognize you've moved to a level your previous amplifier couldn't reach.
Are you leaning toward the 10" woofer Tekton Lore with the soft dome tweeter(98 db) or the 8" with the SEAS driver and metal tweeters (94 db)?
Charles, |
If it were me I'd go for the larger woofer and higher efficiency to best hedge my bet against clipping. Clipping is always public enemy # 1 of good sound. Its the kryptonite to the amps Superman. Goal # 1 should be to keep it out of the picture. The one is in the best position to assess improvements from tweaks like other tubes, power cords, etc.
At least that's how I would look at it. |
Charles,
The one I think you're referring to is the S-Lore, which uses more conventional "hi-fi" drivers (from Seas, I think, hence the "S") rather than that Eminence pro-audio wide-ranger and the Audax super tweeter. My gut would be to go for maximum efficiency and a few extra Hz of low end, therefore the Lore.
It's remarkable that you can scour the Internet for Tekton reviews and you'd have a very difficult time finding anyone who has bad things to say. The only gripes I could find via Google were
1) A few folks who suffered production delays and long wait times a few years ago when the company was smaller and,
2) A bunch of guys on the Parts Express speaker DIY forum who were snickering over pictures of a disassembled Lore, griping about insufficient cabinet bracing and damping, as in, "I could build a better speaker for less money." But even among that tough crowd, several people who had actually HEARD the Tektons admitted that they were amazing for the price.
I am currently using a cannibalized computer power cord with the Kit 1 and yes, someone else said a better cord would be an improvement, so I'll look into one of the high-value Pangea cords from Audio Advisor. Better 300B's will have to wait awhile from a financial standpoint, but I know that Grant Fidelity, for example, offers discounts to ANK customers on the higher end Chinese tubes, so I might look into that. I've also heard that there are the "super" 300B's by KR and Emission Labs that put out some extra power somehow, but I'm not sure if they're compatible with my amp. Anyway, that's all for down the road.
This speaker thing is ultimately going to be a tough call. Much of what I like sounds so great on my De Capo's with the Kit 1, save for the limitations I've already noted. I am awfully curious, though, how the Kit 1 would perform with a very efficient speaker that gave it lots of breathing room.
Charles, now I "get" the SET thing... it's amazing. There's nothing subtle about the improvement in my system and the pleasure this amp is providing.
Mapman,
Yes, agreed. |
The thing about Tekton is that they offer a very good value and a favorable customer satisfaction policy. Plus the choices are highly limited when one needs a good high efficiency speaker on a limited budget. It seems there are only a relative few ponds one can fish in for inexpensive yet proven high efficiency speakers these days compared to the competition.
Its all about what floats ones boat. The good news is there is always a way to make it all work out. More so these days than ever. |
Hi Rebbi,
Unless there's some unknown sonic penalty I'd choose the larger more efficient Lore just you and Mapman. Reading various reviews people are genuinely impressed by its sound quality, no easy feat at that price point. I seems to be much more than a budget speaker that can play rock at high SPL. It's said to do justice for jazz and classical in terms of tonality, nuance and sophistication, now that is encouraging. Very curious to read your thoughts once you've heard Sebrof's Tekton. I hope it all works out for you. |
If it were me, I'd also go for the higher efficiency Lore. IF I was changing speakers. |
Rebbi,
What you say about snickering on Parts Connection is what bugs me about the so-called audiophile community. What they ridicule can be said for 85% of their own equipment that they purchase. If they can do it so well why don't they have the guts to manufacture and give a quality design at an Everyman price point? Let's operate in the cliche way, step on someone's throat to elevate one's self. They have no understanding of the difficulties being a small business. They may claim too, but don't actually.
Personally, I've owned a reasonable amount of expensive audio equipment.
From my experience the Tekton performs in a stellar manner. YMMV. As cliches go, every model punches way above it's weight. Did you actually read Tim Smith's review in 6 moons or Wall of Sound, Positive Feedback, Stereomojo, Enjoy the Music, Part-Time Audiophile and other publications? Are their writers honorable and truthful, or the opposite? Why has this speaker bran garnered so many recent rewards and rave reviews? The owner of Tekton certainly isn't spending big ad bucks in Stereophile or The Absolute Sound. No, the reason that Tekton has gotten some attention is they happen to be musical and do the audiophile stuff in a splendid
manner at a reasonable cost.
Some folks appreciate what it takes to accomplish that while twits snicker. I say hooray for people like Israel Blume and Eric Akexander who have provided the audiophile or anyone interested in music with quality products to exploit the music.
Instead of snarky snickers people like Blume and Alexander ought to get cheers. And they are by word-of-mouth, getting awards from quality writers and their publications. |
I would also like to add that I would get the Lore. Also, I hope Sebrof has the Lore, not just the Katz Meow model. Apples to Apples would be best. |
While I think the Tekton stuff should certainly be on your list, just be aware that their efficiency ratings are (like the DeCapos) probably a little optimistic. I've noticed that their ratings match the ratings of what the manufacturers of the pro drivers they use state which is fine, but Tekton is running their pro drivers behind a crossover and a tweeter that isn't as efficient as the main driver which in turn might be padded down a little. If someone formally tested the Tektons, I'd bet they'd be plenty efficient, but not as high as they are advertised.
This is probably why Tekton tends to like to recommend higher powered amps....or perhaps, he just likes to listen really loud! :-) Regardless, they certainly have to be more efficient than those DeCapos.
I'm hoping you pick some up, I'd be interested in hearing how they match up to the amps. |
Agree with Seikosha.
Personally though I think "Katz Meow" is one of the more creative speaker names I've heard.
Lore will do though.
Wasn't he Data's evil twin android brother back on STTNG?
And didn't Data have a pet cat?
I detect a pattern here..... |
I would be surprised if they were 98db efficient for example if Klipsch Heresy III horn loaded design is 99db.
In any case, either should represent a huge step up in efficiency from the Decapos and hopefully put any semblance of clipping to rest. |
Mikirob,
I have the same feelings toward the DIY crowd.There is a broad spectrum of competence and talent amongst them. Some of them are quite capable and have built excellent products. Overall however there's a tendency for self pats on the back. Some of them feel they can not just equal but build better than any manufactuer and that's not true. It is difficult to start ,maintain and grow an audio equitment company. You're so correct about Israel Blume and others like him, They are a tough act to follow. It is easy to point fingers and say I can do better. A "few" can perhaps, but certainly not the vast majority IMO. |
Thanks Charles, for some good perspective. I know and have stated that tastes vary, results vary, the same exact equipment, different room, different result. Some audiophiles need to buy expensive well-known labels even though there is better out there that is less expensive.
Some folks cannot separate hyperbole and fluff from a lot of audio writers and ad bucks, then when something darn good comes along with low or no ad bucks, suddenly these same folks come from Missouri, "the show me state". I suspect the low-cost of Israel's Dynamo and Eric's Tekton scare many people away because of lower cost. These type of folks need a prestige label with well-known bragging rights, likely vastly overrated, cost three times or more than what it should. |
Hey guys, Sebrof here. Just thought I'd chime in since Rebbi mentioned the latest in this thread to me when he was here today. I currently own Tekton Katz Meow speakers. I owned Zu Omen and Tekton Lore in the past.
The main reason I invited Rebbi over was to see if it was an amp problem or amp/speaker mismatch. I offered to hook his Kit 1 to my big DIY speakers (system page) a couple of weeks ago, but he could make it literally 1 day too late for that because my buddy came over last night and we reconfigured everything and bi-amped the Altecs and Heils. He came over a few hours ago and hooked his kit 1 to my 96 db Tekton Katz Meows - I won't steal his thunder, but let's just say I suspect speaker shopping may be put on his back burner for the time being. We had my 2A3 amp to compare to the Kit 1.
btw: Rebbi's a great guy in person just as he comes across in these threads. It was fun to have him over. |
Good idea to compare the amps assuming one is older and proven and one is just a newborn baby! |
Wow, it's going to a cliffhanger of suspense!
Sebrof, thanks for chiming in. Do you still enjoy the Katz? Were you trying to sell them a while back? Enjoyed the threads you participated in, but haven't seen many posts from you lately. Good luck with all your endeavors. I'm guessing Rebbi goes in a different diection entirely. |
Hello, Friends and Neighbors,
First of all, Sebrof, thanks a lot for the ringing character endorsement! You, too, are a great guy. And it was fun to play a little hooky from work.
So, yes, Sebrof and I got together earlier today. I played the troublesome tracks on his Tekton Katz Meow's through my amp and the amp clipped prominently. Sebrof himself noticed it within a few notes  it was not at all subtle. The other thing I noticed, in retrospect, was that the Kit 1 did not play as loudly on his much more sensitive speakers as I thought it would. (This later led me to wonder whether the amp is even putting out its rated wattage at all.)
We then hooked his 2A3 amplifier at about 3 W per channel back into the system and the same tracks played with no trouble at all on the Katz Meow.
So, we have now confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is something wrong with my amp. Either I mis-wired something or I have a part that is bad or out of spec.
I would say this is good news and bad news.
The good news is that I didn't rush out and buy a new set of speakers for the wrong reason. Imagine my having sold my De Capo's, bought a set of Tekton's, and then finding out that I still had the same problem!
Brian and I have already been in touch back and forth via email. He has given me several things to check. If all of those seem okay, then I am going to take the amp to a local shop that said they would be glad to work on it if they had full schematics and a wiring manual. Brian has sent me those already in case we can't figure this out over the weekend.
So, again, thanks to Sebrof for his time and generosity and thanks to all of you for your interest. I do have to say that if the amp sounds this great with cheap tubes and a build problem, imagine how great it will sound when it's actually working properly! ;-)
I will keep you posted. |
Rebbi,
This is good news really. It will be fabulous when the issue is resolved, likely you will not need to purchase new speakers. Then you might consider the benefits of a new power cord, something like the Black Treasure 300B. On sale now at Parts Connection or Grant Fidelity. Good luck. Shabbat Shalom. |
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Reb,
Honestly from your accounts of how severely teh sound was distorting I was wondering if all was well, especially with soft clipping in play and all, but had nothing concrete to base that on other than that the amp was newly built, still a baby and relatively untested.
I wish I would have said something earlier. Oh well. Glad you found a way to test things out further without having to try new speakers. It'll all work out with continued patience.
Cheers and Shabbat Shalom! |
Rebbi.
I believe you'll get this sorted out. Obviously the 3 watt SET should not out drive your 8 watt SET. This is evidence of the Tekton's easy to drive reputation(3 watts!). In hindsight fingers point to your amplifier. I recall Brownsfan not having this issue with his De Capo driven by the 8 watt Dynamo amplifier. Overall jist think, all of this wonderful sound with a faulty amplifier.
Best Regards, |
Rebbi, congratulations! You ran the definitive experiment. Once you get things sorted out, I do hope you are able to make things work with the deCapos. Back at the beginning of this adventure, I evaluated the deCapos driven by my Coincident Frankenstein 300b amps. I found one could go pretty loud without issues. As Charles indicates, my dynamo also does pretty well. At this point, the dynamo driven deCapos are getting as much playing time as my main system. I've got a nice tube complement in the dynamo now. I continue to subscribe to the original premise regarding the deCapos and SETs. "You haven't heard the deCapos until---" |
02-13-15: Mikirob
Sebrof, thanks for chiming in. Do you still enjoy the Katz? Were you trying to sell them a while back? I had an either or ad up, IIRC: Either the Lores or the Katz. I liked them both but didn't need them both so I think I opened either 2 ads or 1 ad that said take your pick. The Lores sold first. I listen to the Katz every day while I work from home. 02-13-15: Rebbi
The other thing I noticed, in retrospect, was that the Kit 1 did not play as loudly on his much more sensitive speakers as I thought it would. (This later led me to wonder whether the amp is even putting out its rated wattage at all.) 3 watts, 8 watts, what's the difference? Seriously there isn't much, and I thought the Kit 1 played about how I expected it to. I mentioned that I usually have my 2A3 amp's volume at 11:00 or 12:00 when I listen at my normal levels (low 80 dbs) and I'll go to 3:00 on rare occasions. That's all about the gain of the amp. Power is when it starts to clip, which you won't know until you get the issue sorted out. I thought it sounded very nice until it almost blew up my speakers (joking and exaggerating), and it looks beautiful. Despite your issue I'm seriously considering looking into one of their PP kits to bi-amp my bass drivers. Sababa! |
I agree with Sebrof's experiences as there not being much difference between 3watts and 8 watts.
I have Wavelength 45 amps and 300B amps. (driving Beauhorn Virtuoso speakers @ 106 db with single Lowther DX4)
There is not much difference in max volume levels. |
To be precise, 8 watts is 10log(8/3) = 4.26 db greater than 3 watts, everything else being equal. To put that in perspective, the classic rule of thumb is that a difference of 10 db (10 times as much power) will be subjectively perceived as "twice as loud."
Regarding "everything else being equal," though: Assuming that those power ratings are based on an 8 ohm load, to the extent that the speaker impedance varies from 8 ohms at various frequencies, and to the extent that the output impedances of the two amplifiers are not the same, that 4.26 db difference may change significantly in either direction. Other design-related differences between the amps, such as in their power supplies, of course can also affect that value significantly, depending on the impedance characteristics of the speaker, the dynamics of the music, and other variables.
Sebrof, great job helping out! Rebbi, continued good luck.
Best regards,
-- Al
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Almarg, as an aside, do you have any thoughts about the ability of the Coincident 300Bs driving any of the Daedalus speakers? |
Hi Rob,
Although I haven't personally used any SET's, low powered or otherwise, in my own system, I'm sure that would be a wonderful pairing for most listeners with the great majority of recordings, and for many listeners with all of their recordings. However, I also feel certain that at least a few recordings that would be listened to by some listeners would cause the amp to clip, or at best to experience a substantial rise in distortion.
My collection includes many classical symphonic recordings on labels such as Telarc, Sheffield, Reference Recordings, Chesky, etc., which have brief dynamic peaks that reach SPL's of 100 to 105 db at my 11 foot listening distance. I can't conceive of an 8 watt amplifier, no matter how robustly designed, being able to comfortably handle those peaks, even with the 94-98 db efficiencies of the Daedalus speakers.
That is why I chose a VAC amp which uses four 300B's per channel, in a push-pull parallel configuration capable of 65 watts. I wanted to draw a compromise between the magic that a 300B can offer in a SET configuration, and having power capability that would not be marginal (or worse) under any circumstances that could conceivably occur with my particular listening habits. And I made that choice while realizing that the cost of upgrading eight 300B's from the VAC-supplied Chinese tubes would be prohibitive.
Another point to keep in mind is that although the impedance curves of the Daedalus speakers are exceptionally flat, and they are extremely benign loads in terms of phase angles, their impedances are in the 6 to 8 ohm area (6 ohms in the case of my Ulysses), as contrasted for example with the 14 ohm nominal impedance of Charles' Coincidents. So I suspect that his Franks are capable of providing a bit more power when used with his speakers than they would be capable of with mine.
But as I say, I suspect that for many and perhaps most people the Franks would do just fine with the Daedalus speakers.
Best regards,
-- Al
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