Building the Audio Note Kit 1 SET amp...
Rebbi, The Frankenstein has very good parts quality, no question. However sometimes strategic use of premium level parts can elevate an already excellent component. I put Duelund CAST caps in my DAC and speakers and they improved a component that had fine sound to begin with. Your amp deserves a high level power cord. If you find a used Coincident or Triode Wire cord I'd take that chance. Charles, |
HEy Rebbi, Want a larger pair of HE speakers at a good price? Check these out: http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-crites-klipsch-inspired-horn-speakers-cornscala-style-b-100-db-1-watt-2015-05-13-speakers-10001-new-york-ny I know nothing more than the ad so just pointing them out. Shiiping to Texas alone is probably a deal breaker. :^) |
Roxy, Warmed up the Kit 1 and played Buena Vista Social Club. Shut off the amp, removed the stock, Electro Harmonix (Russian) 6SN7 (wearing an oven mitt!!) and installed the RCA vintage (1940's!) tube. Played the same tracks. HOLY COW, JOHN!!!!!!! :-D What a tip! Thank you!!!!!!! How much better can this amp sound? It's kind of scary. ;-) |
I know...it's so amazing. I sit there listening, and wonder what Tataksuki or Elrog 300b tubes would add to this, but honestly, I am really lucky to be able to have this level of performance with my modest means. I have spent soooo much more in the past, and gained so much less. The Kit One is really a great platform to build on. I just knew you would be amazed, and I'm really happy for you. It's not about looks ,or brute power, or any of that for me anymore. It's really about musical insight, and hearing beauty when it's there to hear. I have to add that recordings that are crappy sound crappier than I thought they were, and now, the reasons why are clearly revealed. Good to great recordings sound magnificent. |
Roxy54 and Rebbi, It is so pleasing to read how much joy you guys are getting from your 300b SETs. Pure natural musical delight! Very simple circuit,fewer parts and good implementation= superb sound. I glad you all decided to venture down this path. Your respective amplifiers will keep you very happy for a long time, I'm speaking strictly from experience. Your appreciation for what you have will grow. Charles, |
Charles, It was you who pushed me over the edge, and I thank you for helping me take that leap. I had just bought a Mac 402 for my efficient speakers, and was expecting to be in paradise. That didn't happen, and I finally understood what some say about *the fist watt". I had certainly read some negative things about SET amps over the years as well, but I still felt that they might be the thing for me, and your posts and system were the deciding factor. There are still many virtues to good SS amps, but I have no regrets, and a lot of gratitude for having been connected to this experience. Thanks, John |
John, On a friendly open forum such as audiogon we attempt to help each other with recommendations based on our experience/outcomes. You never know if what worked for you will turn out the same for someone else. So when I read about your deeper insight and enjoyment of listening to music it actually makes me feel really good. Increasing the joy of listening to music is the whole point of seeking out good audio components. Charles, |
Charles, I feel the same way as John. I am SO happy with my Kit 1! It has taken me beyond fiddling with gear to enjoying musical performances. And I am shocked by how just replacing that one 6SN7 tube kicked the amp up to a higher level of musicality. I never knew there was so much care and artistry lurking in so many of my records and CD's... it gives you an emotional connection to the listening experience because you appreciate how much of themselves the musicians and engineers poured into that recording. |
New post on the RCA 6SN7 tube is up on the blog! |
Rebbi, Your journey in tube rolling has just begun. I have all the top rated 6sn7's. I'm happy the gray glass worked out for you. It is a beautiful sounding tube. There are many others that might sound even better in your set-up. My go to 6sn7 tubes are the Sylvania 6sn7gt 52 bad boys. I like them even better than the over priced Tung-sol round plates. Another tube that isn't so expensive that sound really nice are the Ken Rad staggered plates either black glass or clear glass, YMMV. Enjoy the ride! Joe |
Joe, I'm so glad you posted. There's a local fellow who's selling off his tube collection, which must've been huge. I asked him about 6sn7's and he replied saying that he has the following to sell. I'm curious if any of these are worth picking up: RCA Radiotron Electron Tubes, one labeled 6SN7GT, the other GTA Sylvania, old Yellow box Sovtek Ruby tubes What do you tube rollers think? |
My Audionote Kageki came with the brown-base RCA 6sn7s. This is a warm, lush sounding tube. I tried numerous other types, and I ended up liking the Tungsol roundplates (and copies thereof, like French Neotrons). I really did not like the metal-based Sylvanias because they are lean sounding, but, something like the Sylvanias MAY be good in a 300B amp (something much more lush sounding than a 2a3 amp like the Kageki). Currently, the amp is on loan to a friend who recently tried CV 181s (old tubes, not Chinese, but I don't know what brand) in it and liked that tube best of all in the Kageki. I have not heard the combination myself. I believe the CV 181 is not exactly a drop in replacement and draws a bit more current so keep that in mind. |
I also agree with Jwm concerning the Ken-Rad VT-231. For all the positive things I've read about them they are VERY microphonic in my experience and for the prices asked are not worth it. But if you INSIST I will gladly sell you a pair at a reasonable price, after all, they still "test" well. The Sophia premium tubes ARE quite expensive but IME the best 6sn7 tube I've listened to in both the output stages of my preamp and Oppo Modwright, linear and superb extension, in other words more accurate, natural with a bigger sound at least to these ears. It always depends on what floats your boat. The RCAs and some of the Sylvanias (brown base) are excellent as well. If you purchased from Andy believe me, you purchased quality tubes. The things he tests for, microphonics, noise, transconducdence, gas emissions and life are ultimately of greater importance overall than antedotal comments from some. |
Mikirob: Happy to share the info. It's this fellow. He just happens to be local to me. I think I'll stay put with the RCA tube I have now. My next upgrade will probably be one of the Pangea power cords from Audio Advisor. I'm still using a cord cannibalized from a old PC! :-P |
Rebbi, Your amplifier is worthy of much more than an old PC cord. Even though you are quite please with the sound quality you are currently receiving, this generic power cord is limiting your potential significantly. You'll be surprise what a higher-quality power cord can do for your amplifier.I would recommend that you consider purchasing a high-quality used power cord, for example Coincident, VH audio or Triode Wire etc. these are great value buys especially used. This level of quality power cords will noticeably increase the overall sound of your amplifier, they do make a difference. Charles, |
Charles, I know that speaker cables can make a difference because I have heard the differences myself. I will admit to having been a little skeptical about the whole power cord thing but I will certainly give it a try. By the way, do any of you guys know anything about Silnote? They have some power cords for sale here at very reasonable prices. |
Pangea has one model for power amps (focus on current delivery) and one for source or pre-amp (focus on noise shielding and control). I use the latter (AC14SE) with both tube-output DAC and tube pre-amp and can state with certainty that these made a significant improvement in detail and clarity with my gear. Neither is a perfect fit for an integrated amp though so I would recommend going with something that others have had success with used with a SET tube integrated amp specifically. |
I emailed Pete at TWL to see if he has any used or demo cables to sell. And Silnote seems a good, relatively low cost option. If you guys are of the consensus that the the Pangea cords aren't worth the trouble, I'll suppose I'll save up for something better. I know that in some things you get what you pay for! |
Rebbi, I'll be the first to admit that in audio, higher cost doesn't always= better product/sound quality. In this specific instance spending a bit more for a very good cord is worth it. Your amplifier has the high resolution to exploit these better power cords. They will reveal more musical information/detail that your amplifier is capable of. Once you obtain a high quality cord you're done searching and can just enjoy what it brings to the table. As Snopro suggested, the pangea is a middle of the road type of power cord(not terrible at all). Your amplifier is true high end caliber in terms of performance. Charles, |
Rebbi, regarding power cords you'll most likely find this post by Atmasphere (Ralph K.) to be of interest, and perhaps the rest of the thread as well. I would add that the factors he cites as being most important in a power cord, namely minimal voltage drop and adequate bandwidth, while probably compromised to an audible degree by the cord you are presently using, are readily obtainable for far less than the megabucks some audiophiles invest in power cords. In that regard see Ralph's post here, and also my response in the second post after that one. I would also add that the consequences of voltage drops and bandwidth constraints that may be imposed by a particular cord figure to be highly dependent on the design of the particular amplifier, including its class of operation (i.e., class A, AB, or D) among many other factors. And the effects of voltage drops figure to be highly dependent on the happenstance of the line voltage at the particular location. One thing I would definitely avoid doing is extrapolating any expectations about the performance that is likely to result with a specific power cord from experiences that may be reported with class AB or class D amps, which differ greatly from SETs and other class A amps in terms of how their AC current draw fluctuates with the dynamics of the music. I'll also say that there is often what I perceive to be an incorrect tendency among many audiophiles (and I am NOT referring to any of those who have posted above, whose opinions I greatly respect) to conflate the musical resolution of a component or system with the ability of the component or system to resolve differences in hardware, such as power cords. Obviously there is a relation between the two, to some degree, but from a technical standpoint I see no reason to exclude the possibility that depending on its particular design a component providing a higher degree of musical resolution might be less sensitive to differences between power cords and other cables than one that is not as musically resolving. The bottom line to my thoughts on the subject, FWIW: Consider Signal Cable. On another note, I'll add my congratulations to the many that have been expressed regarding the great results you have already achieved with this project. And kudos once again for the beautifully done blog. Best regards, -- Al |
Al and others. I read the post by Ralph and must share an experience I had just about one month ago. I have a newly purchased 10 watt 845 SET amp that sounded good with a particular power cord I had on the amp. However, I was not prepared for what I heard when an audio friend hooked up a Kimber Palladain PK10 power cord to this same amp. It absolutely transformed this amp from a good amp to a dream amp. I have no doubt the amp is 30 percent more powerful with this cord compared to the other cord I was using. Dynamics improved what seemed to be exponentially. Does this mean the Kimber cord is outrageously good? Or can it also mean the other cord was holding the amp back just as Ralph points out. I will start measuring the effect Ralph points out with my power cords! Most interesting. I purchased two used Kimber Palladian cords the very next day right here on the Gon. I put the second one on my transport. It also transformed the transport. Power cables are VERY important. Trial a couple and you will be amazed at what can be with the right cord. |
Reb if your digital source has stock cord and can be replaced I would recommend Pangea ac14 series for that. Different cords from vendors like Pangea specifically have different designs for different problems. Some targeting line level gear that do not draw much power and others targeting power amplifiers that do. A set amp operates in class a and draws a lot of power from the line continuously as I understand it. So I would expect you want a power cord designed for that kind of amplifier specifically as al indicates. The Pangea model for amps I'd the ac 9 line which costs more than ac 14 for line level gear. The Pangea cords are very good build quality and design for the task at hand. Ac 9 would likely be the one you'd want there for an amp that draws a lot of power. I'm sure there are other good ones that set users can vouch for based on experience. I plan to add ac9 cords to my class d amps someday. I suspect they would have a positive effect over stock cord in your case but cannot say how much or what's "best". |
Certainly, decent power cords are must-have items in a system of this caliber. However, I would not go crazy with big buck spending on power cords for tube amplification--most tube gear seem to be not as sensitive to power cord changes as are solid state amplifiers/linestages. Where power cords seem to matter most in a tube-based system is with things like digital sources (DAC, music server, etc.). |
Mikorob, For interconnects, kind of a sad mishmash of budget Audioquest and Kimber. :-/ For speaker cable, I use Supra Classic 6.0 I discovered it when I was looking for cabling for my Merlin TSM-mmi's. I was looking for something that conformed to Bobby P.'s parameters but wasn't in the bankruptcy-inducing price range of the Cardas stuff that he prefers. I thought it sounded very good. Bobby got some samples and declared that the Supra cable was (his words) "stupid good" for the price, and he recommends it now to customers (I believe) as his go-to budget speaker cable option. |
Rebbi, I'm going to suggest an interconnect that I recently found out about and purchased myself with wonderful results. Dirt cheap as well. Please go to Jeff Days Wordpress web page (Jeff is a writer for Positive Feedback as well as formerly, 6 Moons) and you will see an article he wrote on a SPEC integrated amplifier from a Japanese builder for Positive Feedback. The Japanese builder sent Jeff some Belden 8402 microphone cable utilized as interconnect. Read Jeff's comments, the Japanese builder's comments (he is a great 300B builder of amps), and about 42 comments from individuals responding to Jeff from guys like me who purchased this interconnect. It performs as stated by Jeff and everyone else that commented on the interconnect. Jeff provides a link to the seller of these Belden 8402 cables. They are no longer made. Terminated with Sonicraft RCAs they will set you back about $35. They are remarkable, Jeff compares them to his long term expensive Sablon stuff. The Japanese 300B Maven compares the sound to his ancient Western Electric 274B with etched code. Not to be confused with later WE iteration, or modern 274B. I concur with all statements in article and comments. YMMV, but I gave it a shot and am amazed. Best. |
I want to thank Almarg for the Signal Cable tip! A local fellow is selling me a used Signal Cable magic power cord for my Kit 1. It really does make a difference. Music sounds more relaxed and open and the low end feels more extended and authoritative. Although I don't have anything to compare it to, Al, you're right: this cable is a bargain! Thanks again for the suggestion. |
