Is this from all the weekend streaming of Fringe episodes?
Build a Faraday cage around your equipment.
I just realized that there is an abundance of Material (cloth) that has EMF blocking characteristics on the market now. Considering it is a woven material flexible and can be easily sewn by ordinary means, this could easily be used to create a simple form of a faraday cage around your high end stereo equipment. They even have Curtains for your windows. I intend to experiment with it and have already started looking at potential heat problems and effectiveness of ONLY a partial cage, because of course you want to leave much of the Front and back of your equipment open. I believe it has a lot of potential in stopping interference between individual pieces of your equipment package and especially for those who like me have their setup contained in a rack/structure of some kind. There are numerous places that can be approached like even laying a sheet of the material over cable runs to keep out stray signals. This can be done in simple ways or you could get very deeply involved in configuring everything in the system to incorporate the blocking material. Some simple places it could be utilized are simply a sheet of it placed on a shelf before placing the equipment on it or as a simple barrier between pieces of equipment. Attention to the types of material should be considered a high level of concern as the different types have different characteristics. Has anyone else experimented with this?
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@glennewdick This entire subject inodiates me. |
IN response to the comments so far. FIRST I don’ t expect it to protect from a nuclear event. If you don’ tthink there is any potential need for this why do most if not ALL of your cables have extensive shielding in them? Speaking of cables their ever changing shield designs seem to prove how ineffective they believe they are. MOST metal cases are not designed to eliminate emf or at least on any device I have ever seen. Yo can take most of those solid steel cases and poke a bunch of holes in the ( in an effective way) and provide extensively better shielding from RF.. Just look at the door of your microwave. and How about those EXPOSED tubes in tube Amps? No Shielding there. Why are there some many conversations about isolation effective shielding, Grounding Ground Loops, and nearly 50% of the conversations on this forum? For a couple of dollars you can "theoretically" remove much of the interaction between devices. and for Carlsbad2 what is there that you find so hateful? Or was your choice of words, 'inodates' just trying to sound educated and a total miss? I see so many people spending thousands and tens of thousands of dollars in equipment meant to do the very same thing, but of course You see my name on a post and you have to make some STUPID remark. The only hateful remarks are from YOU. |
Jerry, on that I will apologize. It looked as though you were using the word against me. I actually had a hard time finding any reference to that word and though it was a typo but then it actually showed online up as ’hatred’.
Some people don’t like shielding, but when the e=industry spends so much time inventing new ways to do it... I thought it was word the $5 investment for a trial test. When you consider some people building high tech additions to their homes to house $1 mil systems it would take much imagination to find someone lining their walls with this stuff. As mention there are already window curtains being sold for this. AND CLOTHING for the 5G paranoid folks. I was a manufacturing Eng. (trained as an Electronics Eng), My last job in the field was certifying companies for ISO certification. I deal with DATA and the FINEST of details. it became an obsession. I look for the odd things that no one ever thinks about like once when I mentioned on one of the forums about replacing all o f the screws in my speakers with Brass screws. Not that iron screw pose much of a magnetic influence, but in theory... |
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First off, I will say it again, the use of the term 'Faraday Cage' is JUST and analogy. A TAG LINE! Get that and I think that most arguments here go away. I Am JUST talking about a VERY inexpensive piece of cloth, that doesn't take up any practical space, that MIGHT provide a modicum of, blocking out stray signals for nearby equipment. Though I did mention that I really expect some High Roller lining his newly built listening room with the material to totally block out the outside influences. About 'Just getting properly shielded cables everywhere, |
Interesting matter and thread... And i think your thinking and opinion are interesting... We can discuss as friends and learn... And if we disagree it must be just an interesting discussion... Insults are only proof that someone is not very gifted... Welcome here... By the way i am not interested either by what cables are the best nor which speakers are the best... Anyway i am now on headphone and did not need to know which one is the best because i already know it... 😁😉😊 |
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I'm with @carlsbad2 - This looks like a tweak in search of a problem. |
Problems in audio are often rather evident as audible fact... And most of the times there exist specific technical solutions for any "problem"... But the main task is not only to solve evident basic problems in the mechanical, acoustic and electrical dimensions... It is also to think about "optimization" of an audio system which seems to present no particular problem... Sometimes we search for a way to improve it for the sake of doing so ... And some problems are easy to detect as problem... But some are undetectable at first ...Because the owner had no audible idea experience about this factor which did not appear as an audible problem... I read this post thread from the OP as a reflection around RMI and EMI and cheap ways to experiment about it... .. Then it is more a possible optimization proposed set of experiments than a "tweaK" in search of a problem for me... Most people for example will call a useless "tweak" any use of unorthodox ( schumann generators) or even a classical device ( Helmholtz resonators) to "optimize" a room... Because they perceived that their room is OK already... But most of the times their room is not "optimal" at all but they dont know it because we must do the optimization experiment to know it in the first place... In the same way, vibrations affect the gear, it is a problem but there is always ways to go further than simple classical ready made sold solutions ... I used a combination of devices to optimize which i never perceived as a problem to solve because it was unaudible as problem when i think that perhaps vibrations is a problem... In the electrical dimensions it is the same.... I used many unorthodox devices to optimize with succeess my amplifier but i never did it because i perceived a big problem... It was a way to optimize it... Many of this devices homemade has been ridiculed here even if they cost me nothing and they worked for my ears... Then i welcome any good faith proposition open for discussion without rejecting people or judging them... Is it not more interesting ?
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Valid Points!
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RFI/noise will find a way to ride into the cage from any wire entering the cage. My music server has a built in Faraday cage to isolate certain stages from noise entering or exiting the cage. The means of isolation are quite extraordinary. For the signal to pass through the cage, it is first converted to optical so that optical fiber passes the barrier and then it is converted back to an electrical signal. |
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Jea48 I am going to go totally against my own belief system, that manufacturing engineers are competent enough to do exactly what you describe in the venting. Just look a some of the places they have not adequately served the audiophile community, such as Power cables. Of course it would not be cost effective for them to include $5k power cables on a $2k device, but it is a point of failure. Then all I had to do was google, 'hysteresis in radio waves', and the first thing on the list was this nice report. Yes it is at the extreme end of the imagination when considering audio equipment, but it is a recognized problem in the industry. AND slots are not HOLES or mesh either. Most slots on audio equipment would do about as good a job of keeping out radio frequency as it would a bucket of water. Normally I would demand (if I were you) that I provide you proof of that statement, but I would have to demand you proved me the tech specifications on the particular slots you wish to discuss to be able to argue the point. Bottom line, it is an industry concern that is being studies and addresses currently with some fervor and I just in an armature status though I would look into trying a few things on my system. |
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I dunno. I think I'd rather drive an old truck made out of spare parts loaded with nitro glycerin on unpaved roads during a monsoon crossing flooded rivers on antique, broken down wood plank bridges suspended by rope past narco traffickers to put out an oil rig fire in mountainous terrain.
All the best, |
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Do we even know that there would be a meaningful improvement in performance if there were a faraday cage in place around our gear? Is this a big engineering failure of manufacturers or a refusal to provide us a tinfoil hat for our stereo? I can see utility in isolating digital circuitry within a component from other sections of the component to reduce self generated noise/interference, but, have whole component cages been shown to work? |
Personally, I'll leave the F-cage in our micro-convection oven and call it a day... @nonoise, spouse and self have been binging Fringe, caught our attention ever since melting people in a jetliner....*ewww*LOL* "Well, that ends That vaca on a novel note..." Tend to watch After dinner has settled... ;) The make-up crowd has got to have interesting dreams...😜 |
@esarhaddon1 could you provide a few links to this material you are talking about? |
@fac Try looking up Radio Fog, Radio Smog, Radio Frequency Pollution. It is probably worse that any of us ever expected.
5 Best RF and EMF Shielding Fabrics - Buyer’s Guide - EMF Academy
And if you are one of those I mentioned that wants to shield an entire room. |
I created years ago my "golden plate" as protection and filters : shungite+copper...I used as many as 50 as part of my electrical embeddings control.. ...With headphone i used them around my amplifier and no more in the electrical grid of the house because i sold my house and speakers now... ...
😁
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I couldn’t help but crack up at your ’human Faraday cage’. Lol! I find it interesting and timely that I am in the process of putting up for sale my DIY Faraday based interconnects and speaker cable, which are actually quite good! And if not for my curiosity of your post, I would not have known that @mahgister is back! It’s just good to see you, our favorite audio alchemist here! And to welcome you back, soon, I’m going to go over to Audiogon’s ’Jazz for aficionados’ and post some early Brazilian jazz for you. Not to be confused with Brazilian Bossa Nova!
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Most pieces of electronic equipment that has a metal outer case or cabinet already has the principles and all the protection of a Faraday cage. There is no problem to solve here. There is nothing in your home that will be affecting that gear that is solved by doing anything such as creating another Faraday cage around the gear. All the gear we are talking about is created by electrical engineers who have a very complete understanding of all of this from about the second day of school. Unless you are living in a power transfer station and your stereo is 3" under a giant transformer or something, there is no issue :-)
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A somewhat easier solution
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09N3Z1KQ8?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_PBY6M77NMY4ZVGFZK47W |
It's been around 25 years years or so, but: I found 'TI Shield', made by Texas Instruments, on page 14 of Michael Percy's catalog. It's still in his catalog*, though out of production for decades. Placed a full coverage sheet on each component's shelf and on the top (under the granite, to shield the turntable), of my system's cabinet. Haven't looked back since. Just seemed/seems to me that the most immediate threat of interference, would be the EMI/RFI created by the components themselves. |
I dont say my homemade invention and recipe is better than a technological well done shield... But i designed my own shield, which did much than just shield,for my ears... I used it on very critical location as a router... Or a main electrical grid box.. Or around my amplifier and on top... I called it my "golden plate"... Some people laugh at me but i laugh last as it is the case sometimes ...😉 I used shungite plate doubled with copper tape and for some location near the amplifier some minerals as quartz etc to tune and balance the result for my ears... ( i am proud because all my devices are homemade or low cost one which i modified)
http://*https://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf The pubicity page 14 describe it as such, i underlined the words of interest for me ; «TI SHIELD: Unique composite shielding material from Texas Instruments for blocking EMI & RFI interference. Conventional
Shungite and copper complement each other for my ears.. «The results of the interaction of EMR with samples of materials of absorbers and the dependence of the transmission coefficients on the angle of incidence of electromagnetic waves (EMW) in the frequency range 5.3-10.6 GHz are obtained. Research in these frequency ranges is crucial and relevant with the development and transition in the future of systems and mobile cellular networks of promising generations to higher radio frequency ranges. The use of powdered shungite for the creation of EMR absorbers in ultra-high-frequency radiation (UHFR) range has not yet been studied enough. Technological values of the selected EMR absorbers in comparison with other geomaterials: strength of stone-like shungite species, high indicators of density (for example, 2.61 g/cm3 – “TS” brand; 2.49 g/cm3 – “TK” brand) and mechanical resistance, high thermal and chemical stability, low cost, good mixing with binders. The test samples provide a decrease of EMR level due to the presence of absorption effects.»
Anyway shungite had other very useful side effect: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14968159/
And people can call it a placebo effect or not, i dont mind, because i never bought anything to create me embeddings mechanical, electrical and acoustica controls, except very low cost device as 10 bucks Schumann generator i modified... Ok i bought a ionizator and did not modify it thats all.. 😊 I modified even my headphones with complete success, but i disliked them all even after modification but not the best of all of them the K340 i loved it completely AFTER my modification ...
i say that to MOTIVATE people and say to them : learn HOW to trust your ears... Dont upgrade FIRST , buy low cost and create your own listening experiments... You will laugh listening many costlier audio products after it, because there exist a minimal threshold of sound satisfaction and an optimal threshold .. The difference in cost between this two threshold is huge...The difference in perceived specifics acoustical factors is way less than you think between these two thresholds ...
Price tag WITHOUT acoustic basics learned by the owner is often rubbish... Most of the times...and if not useless for those who cannot afford 20,000 bucks amplifier etc... Audiophile experience for the INFORMED poor is possible, i own it...With speakers/dedicated one time now with headphone... |
Practical steps I take to reduce EMI and RFI. I place a shielding Faraday fabric under each piece of audio gear. I also place Shakti Stones on top of my digital gear. Got rid of all fluorescent and LED bulbs in the house, and replaced them with incandescent bulbs. Fluorescent and LED bulbs emit a lot of EMI. Finally I told my utility company to not install a smart meter, which is a major source of RFI. |
For all those who think that shielding is unnecessary. First get rid of all your high dollar pawer cables and interconnects than talk to me about it. |
RFI and EMI is everywhere, and is constantly bombarding our audio equipment and us 24/7. And it's only getting worse with the roll out of 5G and so called Smart meters. You would be wise to protect not only your audio gear, but yourself from the detrimental effects of electromagnetic pollution
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(18)30221-3/fulltext
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I make and sell orgonite which does not "block" EMF so much as it attenuates it. Some of my customers who place the "pucks" too near routers find that it can interfere with their wireless transmission, but it has never interfered with my audio system as far as I can tell. Whether or not this makes any difference in audio I cannot say, but it definitely makes a difference for people who are electrosensitive, and I have over 2,000 sales of this stuff over the past 9 years. In a photo I have posted on this site about audio rack construction there is visible some of my orgonite pucks sitting atop a CD transport: And this below is my website. This may look like shameless self promotion of a hobby business of mine, but it may be entertaining for the woo-haters here on Audiogon.
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