Boy, Oh Boy! Towshend!

 Townshend and vibration control in general, and the Townshend seismic platform made a huge improvement for me under my turntable and I have treated my speakers with Symposium platforms because they are more stable since my speakers are tall and thin and I am paranoid that they would fall over if touched standing on top of the podiums or bars. Even put Symposium roller blocks under my amp and phono stage. Improvement not nearly as much as the turntable, which was a lot more than the speakers, but I think they still improved the amp and phono stage a bit.

Millercarbon, I got the same thing as you when I put the township podiums underneath my speakers it sounded like I upgraded my whole system with new electronics and wire, best investment I ever made far superior to the isoacoustic Gaia even though those are pretty good too.

Richdirector the ISO acoustic are very good but the Townsend podiums are on a whole different level that's what everybody in the forums is said that has tried both yeah

sorry audio guy but that's doing nothing you're still getting vibrations coming up through the floor into your speakers again until you isolate them properly you're still going to get some that's muddied up once you try to podiums you'll see the difference but if you don't have the money or you're too cheap just say so.

I have now bought some bars for my centre speaker, so cannot wait to re listen to all my Living Sound SACD's ( which are three channel masterpieces)  - well most of them anyway, there are a few that are not my taste 

http://livingstereo.alongthehall.com/discography5.html

fingers crossed it will be a nice treat with the darker winter evenings closing in !

 

 

@pcourtney   

Agreed!  Still loving my bars under my Belle Klipsch and Nobsound under my Turntable. Maybe time to step up that game as well as under my integrated.

I bought the Seismic Bars in 2015 when they first came out, I was unhappy with the supplied plinth that Tannoy provided with my speakers that I bought in 2014, the dealer that sold me the Tannoy speakers did not understand how or why the Townshend bars could be better than Tannoy’s own supplied plinth, so I invited him round to my home and we swapped between the two plinths/bars multiple times, he could not understand how much better the sound was, he fed this back to Tannoy, who probably ignored it :-(

A few years later I was given the opportunity to try the Podium version, but I could not detect anything too much different in SQ between the podium ( more expensive ) and the bars ( cheaper) , so I kept the bars and am still very very happy with them :-)

My floorstander speakers are Tannoy Precision 6.4’s and weigh 22kg, so my bars are Size 1, and they sit on a concrete ground floor in my lounge TV room that measures 6m x 6m

My centre speaker - a Precision 6c sits on a strip of black sorbothane, and is only used for 5.1 movies, I thought about using some Size 2 bars under it, but I resisted because the centre speaker sits on top of a fairly substantial sideboard, that houses the amp and oppo player, so I convinced myself that it would not really help all that much !

My Tannoy speakers really punch well above their weight, and for what I paid for them, they sound twice as good as they probably should, all thanks to the Townshend bars.

I don’t have First Circle. Not sure why I never heard much about it. Sounds like you’d recommend I get that before Side eye NYC. Now let’s see how hard it is to find it on new vinyl.

I am a big fan of his older stuff. First Circle probably being my fave. The new album is a little more structured than recent stuff. Not crazy about the first tune but the rest is pretty nice. Does sound live, especially with the podiums. Live recordings with the podiums are really a treat. You can actually hear the audience layered in front of the performers. I was away from my system for four days  and you really get a feel for how good things sound after a break. Only bad thing is I used to thing my Mercedes had decent sound system but not really exciting anymore with the addition of the new room and upgrades.

Hey @benzman - big Pat Metheny fan. How do you rate this album's content, not just SQ? I have so many of his albums that some of them are pretty similar to prior releases. For example, I have the From This Place recent album which I bought because I hadn't gotten anything new from him for a long time. It is a double album and it is solid for sure, but not much different from some of his other stuff and is not really distinguished like the White Album, American Garage, Offramp, Watercolors. Some other excellent ones, although great, I would not be able to tell you what album a given song came from - Still Life Talking, Letter From Home, Secret Story, Imaginary Day, We Live Here.....It could be that they were mostly only available on CD when I bought them, so they never get played on my stereo.

Every time I buy an album where someone raves about SQ it seems like I am not big on the actual music. I am not trying to demo my stereo, just like listening to music. Of course excellent SQ is a big plus, but not the primary criteria, so your honest opinion is appreciated.

Your speakers fit perfect!!

Yes, that was fortuitous - the bottom plinth of the SCM100 tower is 427mm wide and the size 4 Podium is 430mm, so a nice fit.
I'll check out the Pat Metheny album.

moby2004- Yes you can adjust speaker position of the Podiums with the speakers on them. Just keep in mind each corner being on springs moves not only up and down but side to side. So after moving them be sure to check each corner to make sure they all still have clearance in every direction. I like to go corner to corner, give it a little nudge, and if it binds or rubs then adjust by pushing the base of the pod. Not the Podium, just the very bottom part. Being on tile you lucked out this is much easier than carpet.  

Tobes- That is by the way a good description of the sound. I have now heard these under 3 sets of speakers, all with similarly excellent results. The improvement with Brandon's Pendragon XL was like a whole system/room overhaul! When you talk about noticing new things in familiar music, for sure. It has been a while since I went through that with mine. When we set Brandon's up I heard the improvement but he is of course far more familiar with his room and music and was leaning forward mouth literally open gushing and finding it hard to believe how much more he was hearing. I was watching laughing, remembering what it was like for me. It really is hard to believe something like this can make so much difference. 

Your speakers fit perfect!!  The details as you mentioned. I have numerous hi Rez album rips that I thought where pretty quiet. Now surface noise and the pops and clicks are much more defined. Got to take the good with the bad. Check out Pat Metheny new album  Side-Eye NYC.  It’s live with some of the best percussion I have heard.  

My Podiums arrived and I installed them last night.
Interestingly one of the first things I noticed was the greater depth perspective and placement of performers/instruments in depth and in relation to each other. 
Probably the most important improvement is in tonal discrimination and clarifying of small details - you start to notice all manner of things in familiar music. 
These are preliminary impressions so far but hard to hear this as anything but an emphatic improvement.
I posted some pictures in another thread elsewhere if any ATC owner is interested how they look - I'll add these to my Audiogon system in due course. 

Ok thanks all. Yes I liaised with John. It seems both would work and I was wondering if practically speaking it was better to have bigger ( or “exact fit”) based on real-life experience.
Also my floor is tiles. Would it still be possible to move a bit the speakers if needed with the podium in place?

The difference is cosmetic/aesthetic so get whichever one you think will look the best. To my eyes as long as the Podium is at least as wide as the speaker then they have a balanced appearance. If you go up in size to the next bigger one it gets you nothing in performance just a different look. Because drivers are mostly on the front baffle this puts the center of gravity just a little bit forward. What this means is if you get a bigger Podium you will have a bit of room to put the speaker a bit farther back on the Podium. But again this is all for how it looks. They are so easily adjustable you will be able to easily balance perfectly either way. 

Anything like this I always call John Hannant at Townshend, he has always had great suggestions and has yet to steer me wrong. 

Reach out to the pros at Townshend. They will guide you. The footprint of the Podium is pretty large so you may want to go with the 4’s if in fact they will fit your speaker. 

Hi all,

 I am very interested in the Podiums and I am about to order them.
My only hesitation is the size. The base of the size 4 is matching exactly the depth of my speakers and is a bit wider ( so adding the pods area it looks like a good match) whereas the size 5 will give me more room under the speakers.
in terms of weight both are ok ( my speakers are 320 lbs each…).
 I am more inclined to order the size 4 but what would be recommended ?
Thanks
Alex

@benzman
Yes, getting the size 4 podiums, the SCM100 towers come in at 68kg and have a fairly large footprint.
Have increased anticipation with all the strong endorsements.

’That's good to hear, I'm looking forward to receiving my Podiums (waiting on shipment from UK).’

size 4?  The beauty of the Townshend that it makes every one of your upgrades better. From a fuse to a power supply. The Podiums really should be the first upgrade people make. Unfortunately for me it was my most recent. But if I would have ever known the difference it would have been the Podiums before any dac, preamp etc.  The Podiums allow you to really listen to every piece in the chain   Would have been perfect to audition equipment with them in place 

you will have a big smile shortly after install. Money well spent. Not sure of the cost of your speakers but if the Podiums where 10% of their  cost you are getting a hell of a return on your dollar. 

goose520 posts08-20-2021 12:27amI compared the gliders to the podiums and agree with millercarbon

That's good to hear, I'm looking forward to receiving my Podiums (waiting on shipment from UK).

Ideally what you want is a floating effect isolating the component. In addition, if you can also get some vibration transfer out of the boxes (everything except turntables) that is ideal. Floating doesn't work for me with my thin floor standing speakers, so I went with a multilayer platform that does an excellent job transferring vibration with some isolation, but not as much as podiums or roller blocks. 

The only product I've seen that does both are the Symposium roller blocks. They are a little more expensive that Townshend podiums, however for most weight applications, you only need 3 of them (3 points determine a plane for those who forgot geometry) and they become a little less expensive.

Under my turntable where I don't need vibration transfer, the podiums work great, and I have them screwed into a seismic platform (sitting on top of a wall mounted shelf screwed into the wood studs). That makes it much easier to level and you don't have to worry about optimal podium placement. This platform however is solid powder coated steel without sublayers, so there is no vibration transfer which is ok since there is vibrating box. Power supply is separate. It adds a couple hundred to the price, but it is worth it to me.

I compared the gliders to the podiums and agree with millercarbon.

Haha - hope so.
I actually had a better reaction to the Herbies footers than the Isoacoustics Gaia 1 footers - though I didn't have them together at the same time for a more contemporaneous comparison.

Max can slaughter Herbie's with one arm tied behind his back.

I've ordered some Townshend Podiums for my ATC SCM100ASL towers.
Will be interested to hear how they improve on the Herbies Giant Gliders I'm currently using. 
The Podiums need to impress at >10 times the cost of the Herbies footers.

Sure. Why not? The only question is how? Townshend accomplish leveling on Podiums by turning a knob, and on Pods by turning the top of the Pod. Either way allows convenient and accurate leveling. My turntables were on Pods, my speakers on Podiums. Both perfectly level.

It seems to me that turntables must be level to even begin setting them up.   ...just wondering if springs can accommodate that adjustment.

@prof- I was talking about for the Josephs. As i have mentioned, I have used products from both companies, depending on the need and prices, I am comfortable with both companies.

The pictures I saw prof it looks like all you would do is remove the spikes, leave the outriggers, and put them on a Podium wide enough for the outriggers. Maybe use a shim in back, same thickness as the outrigger in front. Something like that. 

sokogear,

I'm getting the Townshend product, not the Symposium, so I'm not in conversation with Peter.

Hey @prof - that's why I had the platforms built about 2" longer and wider than the thin base of my KEF's. Aside from all the other reasons I mentioned, I was too nervous they's tilt over and I wasn't comfortable putting spikes/disks on top of a Townshend floating platform.

Nothing is perfect, but the Symposium Segues can be cut to fit at no extra charge, and should be a nice improvement. Tell Peter your floor type, speaker and environment and he will be honest with you about a recommendation and what to expect.

Thanks millercarbon.  I'm familiar with what you are talking about, having experimented with the other spring footers.   I know the Townshend are stiffer, but the Thiels were stable enough even sitting directly atop those springs.

The Joseph speakers are an entirely different issue though.  I would not trust them normally without the outriggers, as they could easily be tipped over.  Unless there is something in the speaker bars that secures them, it seems very dicey to add even a bit more tippy quality, without the outriggers to help. 

The thing to keep in mind is that while the speakers appear unstable because they rock easily, this appearance is totally deceptive. They will move easily only a few degrees. Then the springs compress or bottom out enough to stop further tilting. At this point the speaker is no more or less stable than otherwise.

You can prove this to yourself. When setting them up on the Podium first take one and tilt it to the balance point. Then repeat this same balance point test on the Podium. You will find the exact same angle.

I did this myself, "walking" my Moabs onto the Podiums. The angle they have to be tilted in order to fall over is so much greater than what the Podium allows this is a total non-starter.

But, it helps to know this. Mike Lavigne didn’t, and you shoulda seen his reaction when he put his hand on the side of my Moab to feel for cabinet resonance! Expecting rock solid it moved so easily he was startled and tried to stop it falling over. The crowd roared with laughter. I missed it, sad to say. But Rick and the others sure had a good laugh. So no worries.

Well boys I've joined the club!

Just ordered some Townshend Isolation Bars for my speakers.

I'll be using them with my Thiel 2.7 and Joseph Audio Perspective speakers.

The Thiels have a wider body and are very stable, but I am wondering how I'll go about using them with the Joseph speakers, which are a very narrow body design and require the supplied outriggers so they aren't easily tipped over.  I don't know if I'll keep the Josephs on the outriggers while on the bars, or whether there is some prevision in the design of the bars to hold narrow speakers steady?

millercarbon-
I've been thinking about this a bit today. It's going to be tricky. More for the right speaker than the left.

But I know what you're describing. My podiums will be on tile so that may help.

It took my installer and me SO long to get the speakers in the exact right position. So I'm fretting even a teeny tiny change.

My right speaker's left corner is near the back wall and the right corner angled forward of the wall.... Due to the wall, the left rear pod cannot go far enough back so about 4" of the speaker's left corner will be hanging off the podium
I'll have to measure each corner's distance from the wall and take pictures.

I'll have to tip the front of the speaker up and back, remove the spikes and then slip the podium under the front of speaker and slide it back until it hits the rear spikes. That is if the left rear pod doesn't hit the back wall first. Then let the front of the speaker land on the podium.

If there is room to move the podium back further, I'll use my air lift, if it can get in there in the back to prop up the back base just enough to take the back spikes off. Then push the podium back and settle the back down.

The left speaker should be easier as I'll be able to use the air lift to raise the back enough to remove the rear spikes and then slide the podium in place.

I hope it's that easy!
Getting the air lift to lift the 400 pound Sound Anchors rack to slip the Isolation corners under the spikes will be some work.

vinylshadow-

Although, I may leave the spikes on initially to tip the speakers right side up and slip the podium underneath, then tip the left side up and skid the podium under. Then take all spikes off. Or maybe take the right spikes off and leave the left ones on as a pivot and slide the podium under and over to the left spikes. Hmmm.

Good luck. You will find the Podiums very hard to move around once loaded. The feet are flat and stick to carpet like crazy. Hardwood, tile, vinyl, no problem. Carpet? Forgetaboutit! 

What worked for me, measure first to know exactly where the speakers are now, then move them and place Podiums exactly where they should be. Adjust as low as they will go.   

Then with cones or gliders or whatever affixed to protect the bottom, tilt the speakers and "walk" them onto the Podiums. Calls for a good sense of balance, but I was able to do this all by myself with 150lb Moabs. Once on the Podiums you can tilt and remove your gliders or whatever if needed. It is nice to have a helper here. 

Usually due to drivers the speakers center of gravity is somewhat forward of dead center. So I like to have the speakers centered left to right but a couple inches to the back. You can however have them perfectly centered, there is easily enough adjustment to get them level either way. Purely a matter of taste. 

Once this is done then I measure again this time to the speaker corners to get them perfectly equidistant and symmetrical, with whatever toe in they had before. This for me was the hardest part, but frankly I am my own worst enemy here being so OCD even a 1/16" of an inch drives me crazy! 

Only once the speakers are where you want them at the base, then start turning knobs to raise them up. I go around giving one full turn at a time to all 4 corners, until they start to float. Then another full turn just to be sure.   

Then level front to back and side to side. Leveling is the coolest part, it is a treat to be able to so perfectly level so easily! Especially after all the other hard work!

I put a Symposium Segue Stealth Platform under my KEF R500s because the height of the platforms exactly matched the height of the KEF supplied spikes/discs. I did not want to alter the height of the drivers at all, which would definitely change the sound. Townshend would have necessitated that (plus Segues were a good bit less $$).

The sound improvement was immediately noticeable. Much clearer, seemed to clean up sound that was audible but not definable and more precise. They keep the isolation and height the spikes provide because or the multiple layers within the Segues and they transfer the vibration out of the cabinet to my suspended wood floor. Well worth the investment. I could put rollerblocks under them, which would make them float and give some more isolation, but that would raise them, which would change the sound from what KEF intended.

BTW, for the heck of it I tried the Nobsound-like spring footers under my tube amps.
Zero impact on the sound.  Which makes sense to me.  If they were going to pick up any vibrations it would likely happen if placed in the room with the speakers.  But all my amp/source equipment is in a separate room down the hall from my speakers.

That's a great idea.

I have plastic furniture sliders that came with furry elastic "socks" to go over them.

I'll have to figure out a way to incorporate their use!

I solved the scratching problem with my speakers on the Townshend podiums.  I attached self stick adhesive moving gliders on the bottom of my speakers before I lifted onto the podiums.  Granted my speakers are only 100 lbs. each but they worked like a champ.  They are 1 3/4 inches in diameter and I didn't use the speaker spikes.

I hear ya about your back. I definitely am not looking forward to lifting each 140 pound speakers onto the podiums.

Fortunately I have that inflatable 500 pound air lift bag so that might help me. Although, I may leave the spikes on initially to tip the speakers right side up and slip the podium underneath, then tip the left side up and skid the podium under. Then take all spikes off. Or maybe take the right spikes off and leave the left ones on as a pivot and slide the podium under and over to the left spikes. Hmmm.

Sticking pods under the 4 corners of my 140 pound sub should be easier since they have small spikes that I’ll remove 1 at a time.

Ah, I see you were assuming speaker spikes.  Makes sense.

I don't use speaker spikes - speakers sit right on the floor, as I preferred the sound that way.  So I'm looking to keep the speakers as close to the floor as I can to maintain that tonal balance.

prof,
That's why I thought the speakers may need a little more height when using the Townshend's instead of spikes.

ozzy

Yes furniture sliders or herbies could be the ticket.  Though one of the advantages of the Townshend design is not raising your speaker up much at all, so as not to change the tonal balance.

Not quite. I still use BDR mostly to avoid scratching the Moabs. Whole lot easier to move around with Cones on there. Then also use BDR Round Things UNDER the Podiums. They serve as high tech furniture gliders.  

In any case BDR are not isolation. They are extremely stiff and highly damped, but in no way are they isolation. 

Probably the way John recommends is best. The only way to know for sure though is to try. I asked if it was worth it and my back said, "Sounds real good just the way it is." 

@millercarbon

Are using the BDR round things under the podium pods?

Your floor is wood though, yes?
I'm on tile which doesn't transmit footsteps or sub/speaker sonic vibrations according to the seismograph app.

Interesting, I may try a few Herbies sliders underneath the podiums.

ozzy

prof, One of the guys I'm helping off-line is using them on carpet and told me they were better with something under them. Sorry but it's been some months and I forget who and what. Butcher block, tile, or marble, something like that. He used a slab of it, that I know for sure. Anyway I was a little surprised it made any difference but then a lot of things are like that so I tried anyway and sure enough, better. In my case instead of a slab I used the same BDR Round Things that were under the Moabs before. Only now they are under the Townshend. Picked up even a little bit more dynamics and detail. Hard to believe. Probably furniture coasters would work, and you will prefer them anyway as if the Bars are like Podiums on the bottom they will be a LOT easier to slide and tweak position that way. 

@prof

The speaker bars look to be about 1/4" off the floor.

I imagine you could put coasters or plastic furniture sliders under the pods.