@rixthetrick
Thanks but I wasn’t able to figure that out.
But if you go to imgur dot com slash a slash FEI0zPQ pics are on im gur.
If you are able to, you’ll see the 300 pound Sound Anchors rack and the Basis turntable. But I’m adding a 2nd to the left of the center speaker.
Then you can see 1 of my speakers on the spikes/disc and a Rowland Model 12 behind it. Also on a spiked Sound Anchors amp stand.
Hope that helps!
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I wouldn't mind advice for my situation.I have a 300 pound Sound Anchors rack. It is solid steel bars filled with sand. With spikes and discs on each corner.
On top of the rack will be a Basis 2001 with silicone filled suspension pods(allows the table to shimmy if touched) and a Vertere Acoustics MG-1 with its own suspenion system. Both on MDF wood planks that seat within the rack...
I used to have a Townshend Seismic Sink under the Basis but the air bladder blew out. Twice. But I'm not certain how much benefit the table received from it. 1, due to its own suspension and 2, the Sound Anchors immobile rack. The rack is unaffected by footfalls or anything.
I wonder if any of you have an opinion on any significant benefit of putting isolation platters under suspended tables on an immobile rack.
Also, I have 140 pound JM Lab Mezzo Utopia speakers each on 4 fat spikes/metal discs with felt bottoms on tile which is on top of the concrete foundation.
They sound fantastic but I don't know if they could sound better with different Townshend isolation bars/podiums...Any thoughts would be most appreciated. Thanks.
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@rixthetrick
Thanks again...My center channel speaker is only playing during 5.1. In 2 channel, it is silent. And yes, it must stay there.
The largest bass driver is the Sub with the spikes in the left corner. It has a corner bass trap behind it. Plus there are 3 GIK Acoustic panels above the couch on the back wall.
The stand is covered in an inert, matte finish. The turntables sit on MDF wood plates decoupled, but epoxied, to the rack.
The rug, I don't know. I was advised to put one there vs. having bare tile. There are no vibrations in the room, which is 36' long, 12' deep and 24' high. The acoustics in the room were pretty good even before I added the GIK panels.
The glass table, I'm not sure, but you might be on to something there. I keep stuff on the table to diffuse but it still is glass.
I guess I circle back to my original question. Will Townshend isolation products make an appreciable and remarkeable enough difference to justify its cost. Esp the ones under my 140 pound speakers.
Putting Nobsound springs under the Basis t.t. pods and Vertere MG-1's feet, that would be an inexpensive try but I'd be a bit afraid of instability, esp. under the very expensive Vertere MG-1.
But I am curious vs an expensive isolation platform.
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@rixthetrick
Thanks. Good idea. I also emailed my contact at Focal and asked for his thoughts.
As a curiousity, I downloaded the Hamm Seismograph app from Google Play. Figured I'd try what they did at Townshend. One think about those videos, I'm worried that if someone accidentally bumped hard into my speakers, they'd tip over!
Is turning a subs volume all the way to 0 the same as turning the sub off? Or by leaving the sub on even with no volume, its crossovers get in the way of the floor stading speakers crossovers? Or maybe the crossovers are set in stone in my Classe processor....
In any case, just goofing around. I'll do some more legwork. I appreciate your feedback.
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@millercarbon @rixthetrick
Thanks guys...I got a reply from John at Townshend. I sent him the Imgur pics of my speakers and system and he didn't address it specifically but said the following very matter of factly:
"Thank you for your enquiry,
We always recommend Isolating your speakers and floating your rack on our Seismic Corners,
I am very happy to supply a pair of our Size 3 Podiums with D Cells for
$xxxx.
I also recommend floating your stand on our Seismic Corners, can you
kindly work out roughly the weight of stand + equipment on top please,
A Set of 4 F Type Seismic Corners will be great which I am very happy to supply for
$xxxx.
Isolating your Speakers + stand will offer total Isolation down to 3hz."--------After receiving this, I realized that there is barely any peripheral room beyond my speakers corners for the podium exterior. My right speaker is nearly against a wall, toed in and the left speakers right corner nearly abuts up against my Sound Anchors amp stand. Speakers cannot be moved.
So I have no choice but to use the isolation bars from left to right. Do they work exactly as good as the Podiums?
Does it count for anything that when I put my phone on the tile right in front of a speaker cranking music, that with a Hamm Seismograph app on, there is absolutely no vibration registered on the tile?
I ask as maybe all I'd need is to float my equipment rack on the Seismic Support Isolation Corners. That seems like an incredible bang for the buck and simpler than isolating both turntables, CD player, Classe processor, Model 12 amp and tube phono drive separately.
I guess the recommendation is to never use my sub in 2 channel supported only on its cones/spikes?
I'd have no problem putting my heavy Sub on Nobsound springs. If they could support 140 pounds.
Did someone mention that bass is lost with the Townshend podiums?
The only fly in the ointment is I don't see an easy way to get to the back right corner to lift the equipment rack to put an isolation support corner. There is no room to get in there. Like 10" unless I pull the rack away from the walls and slide it back? ....I could use a dolly to lift up the other accessible corners. Maybe I could use a Seismic Isolation Pod in that tough corner. But I'd have to remove the spike first. Tough! Maybe pull the rack all the way out, put the Isolation Support Corner on the spike and slide it back? Will the pod rubber slide over tile and grout lines? .....Thinking cap time!
Sorry for all the stream of consciousness questions. I definitely want to do something but do the right thing. However I need to know the answers before I order....Thanks!
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@rixthetrick
If I have my phone on the speaker and stomp on my tile, there are no vibrations registered on the phone. If I'm blasting music and place my phone on the tile in front of the speaker, there are no vibrations on the Seismograph. My tile is bonded to the concrete foundation of my house. It is dead solid and silent for vibrations.
But, if I'm cranking the music and put my phone on the speaker, there is a lot of vibration. On the rack where the tt's will sit, there is a small amount of vibration. Mostly on the Z plane. But will that get mitigated by my Basis tables silicone filled pods where my table can shimmy like speakers do on the Townshend podiums? My Vertere MG-1 table is a suspended table as well. Millercarbon's table itself does not look to be suspended. But it is on an isolation platform.
If I understand correctly though, isolating the speakers with Townshend bars will help the speakers sound much better. Is that correct?
@millercarbon makes a point. Even if my rack is on isolation corners, can the individual components still vibrate within its shelf? That would be important to address. John from Townshend made it sound like But, there is no room under my Classe processor/DAC or Model 12 for pods. The Classe takes up nearly the whole rack opening.
So the isolation corners seem like my only option for the equipment on my rack. The right back corner will be a bear to get one under.
The Mezzo Utopia's bass is solid. And down to 35Hz. 92.5dB sensitivity.
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@millercarbon @rixthetrick
Well, apparently Townsend isolation corners WILL isolate every single component in my equipment rack. Got it from the source!
I asked John at Townshend:
"As
far as the isolation corners isolating my equipment rack down to 3Hz,
what about the individual components. Will they also be isolated down to
3Hz? As I cannot fit isolation pods under most of the components."John: Yes everything on top of the rack is Isolated
Me:
Just to clarify, when you said "Yes everything on top of the rack is Isolated"
did you mean, all 9 components within each rack shelf of the Sound
Anchors rack or just the components(turntables and tonearm etc) on the
top of the rack. John:
Once your rack is floating on our Seismic Corners everything that is on the rack is Isolated down to 3hz.------------
So what do you think MC? Pretty economical way to isolate 9 components vs 36 isolation pods!
The isolation corners and 4 speaker bars would do the trick. John also recommended speaker bars on my sub. However my sub is 18" wide?
But I'm thinking, getting 4 Nobsound springs(if they can handle 140 pounds) would be a much more economical way to proceed if they would not affect the Townshend isolation. 4 isolation pods would cost less than half as much as speaker bars...Thoughts?
The only issue here is getting to the right rear corner of my equipment rack. Unless I pull the rack way out away from the back and side wall(see imgur dot com slash a slash FEI0zPQ to see the rack and walls) and successfully! slide the corner back in place over the tile and grout lines, no way can the rack corner be lifted to get the spike into the small isolation corner spike hole. Even if I follow John's advice about removing all heavy components and center speaker first...It's still 300+ pounds!
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@millercarbon
I understand and thank you. So now there are several considerations about the rack isolation. And what is most important. For me, it's my 2 turntables, and their tonearms and cartridges and my tube phono drive(which there is room for pods). I don't think my Vertere turntable motor drive that supplies the 33 and 45 rpm signal to the turntable motor needs additional isolation. Or at least expensive isolation? Maybe springs? The t.t.'s are up on top and have their own suspension systems. They may be ok...No room for anything with my Classe Processor unfortunately. Only an 1/8" or so.... For my DVD/CD player, only about 1.5" or so room. Currently with an air bladder platform with a leak undeneath. So not functional. Might as well remove it.
As far as the Nobsound's, I was only considering those for the Sub. If I only use the sub for home theater(or low volume bass add on for 2 channel), would the springs be satisfactory enough?My Mezzo's bass is really good. But maybe with proper isolation, the sub might be worth using fuller in 2 channel. I don't know. I never turn it up more than 5% or so.
Leverage will work(a dolly) under the accessible front corners and left rear corner pretty easily. Getting leverage to the right rear corner will be super tough. I wonder if I can get a car jack to fit. There's about 1.5" of space below the base bars....I only need to raise each corner about 3/4".
So the isolation corners will isolate my rack components from my speakers and maybe my sub. Fingers crossed that my turntables well designed suspension systems mitigate their own vibrations.
After the isolation corners, then it's a question of where to place Pods. Or maybe Nobsound springs? They are 1.49"(I cannot find information on how tall the Pods are) so they will just barely fit under my Marantz DVD/CD player. Are they worth putting under my Node 2i streamer box? Or Rowland center speaker mono amp? Or P.I. Audio UberBuss power conditioner? Or Dish network satellite box? Or my Rowland Model 12 monoblock amps?
I just pumped up the Townshend Seismic Sink that was under my Basis turntable and it has not sunk. Yet. Let's see tomorrow.
My system currently sounds so great now.
With isolation- I feel hot and cold(can't explain).... Yeah down in my soul yeah(can't explain).
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Maybe. Maybe not.
Each air shim is rated for 300#. So, use two. Done.
Great idea...I’ll need to swing the rack out 2 -3 feet to change components etc and to mount the isolation corners so I can use those sliders on the pods so I can slide the rack along the tile and grout lines and back against the wall. Awesome.
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@tvad
Thanks for the air shim link! wow. That would be perfect as there is barely enough room even when the rack is slid out a bit for me to get back there. The rack itself is 300 pounds so I'll need to remove the 100 pound center speaker first. But lifting a corner might be easier and I just need to lift like 3/4" I'm psyched.
As far as my speakers, no room for podiums so I'll get the bars. I'll tilt the back forward, remove the spikes, and put one bar under and then tilt the speaker backward, remove the front spikes, and put the other bar under. This way I can keep the position the speakers are in now. But those sliders are so inexpensive I may get them just to have handy.
@millercarbon
"I feel hot and cold(can't explain) yeah down to my soul yeah(can't explain) is lyrics from the Who's I Can't Explain!
I am going to ask John at Townshend how tall his pods are as I only have 1.5" for certain components. But honestly, would the Nobsound springs give enough vibration control to individual components? Lets say 75% of what the Pods would do?
I don't know if I want to spend $1100+ on speaker bars for my sub. Springs might have to do.
Buying isolation platters for my turntables that already have suspension systems.... Gotta think that one over.
Pods would raise the height of the tables. Had custom acrylic dustcovers made for both. They might not fit over all the way down with pods. And 4 pods on 4 pods seems unstable.
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Interesting...I wonder if the Nobsounds would have a positive, long term effect on individual components or fall into the same situation as your speaker experience. And pods are 1000x better than the springs.
millercarbon would know best. But it sounded like components improved significantly with the springs.
Sadly for me, John at Townshend just told me that at their shortest the Pods are 2". I need 1.5" so the springs are my only option for racked components.
I can swing Pods under my sub but, well, I don't know what to do!
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@sokogear
I will look into Symposium for rack component isolation for sure. I just need to get my thoughts together on the Townshend isolators first. But I think I have.
Speaker bars with pods under my Mezzo Utopia's and isolation corners under my Sound Anchors rack(thanks tvad). That knocks vibrations to everything down to 3Hz. Just need individual component isolation next.
My left Rowland Model 12 monoblock amp behind my left Mezzo and near my sub is on its own Sound Anchors amp stand with spikes. The amp and the connected separate power supply are both made of solid, machined alumunum. 30 pounds each. Do they need isolation? If so, I could remove the stand spikes and put each stand leg bottom on a Pod? That would be half the price of 4 isolation corners. I don't think amps vibrate on their own, do they?
Isolation platters under the turntables I'm not sure what to do there. Because of the dimensions of my 2 t.t.'s and their dustcovers, they may be the last thing I do.
Thanks to everyone who help me coalesce my pathway. Almost there.
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As far as turntable isolation, is there any difference or betterment between a Symposium Platform and a Townshend platform?
Whatever I put under my Basis turntable will also have the separate belt motor on it.
The belt motor for my Vertere MG-1 is built into the table.
@millercarbon For my model 12 monoblock amp that is on a Sound Anchors rack w/spikes on discs, behind a Mezzo speaker and near my sub, put pods directly under my amps and power supplies on the top of the stand? Or take off the spikes and put 4 pods, 1 below each leg of the stand.
Then I guess what to put under my Rogue Ares Magnum tube phono drive.
Would anything be necessary under my Vertere MG-1 motor drive that sends the 33/45 signal to my Vertere MG-1 turntables motor? The box is so light I could probably center it over 1 pod. Maybe 2 to be safe. And 2 under my Rogue phono drive as it is sort of light as well?
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Understood. So placing the isolator under the amp is best.
As far as the Rogue tube phono stage and Vertere motor drive, they will be set close to each other in a rack shelf. Seems like the most economical thing for both is to put both on a Symposium Segue ISO platform. And a consideration is, that platter will be what separates both components from my Classe SSP-800 processor/DAC in the rack space below them. So the ISO platter will block any vibration etc from the Classe, if that does in fact happen.
Although come to think of it, a Townshend platter would likely work as well provided the pods can be centered on the racks steel bars; whereas the ISO platter is flat across the bottom and will certainly sit on the bars.
I was hoping to put isolation under the Classe but there is only 3/16" of available space above the top of it.
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@sidog1460
I can help. I just ordered the Seismic isolation corners(and speaker podiums, turntable platform and pods) from John at Townshend.
I wouldn't think the 3 legs would matter...You can email John at Townshend if you want. He is so helpful.
Your dealer is correct. The isolation corners will "float" your rack and isolate your components and your rack from external vibrations down to 3Hz. That would be adequate to stop right there for many people.
However, I am taking it one step further in that I will be placing pods under all components(and my sub) to isolate all individual components from internal vibrations.
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@sokogear
Due to space limitations in rack spaces under my Rogue tube phono stage, Classe processor and 1 of my Model 12 monoblock amps I'm going to get 3 5/8" Svelte Shelves, as pods are too tall.....
I could fit taller shelves under the phono stage and monoblock but the Svelte Shelf looks like it will do the job well.
I saw a review for the Rogue Audio Ares Magnum and the reviewer had a Symposium Ultra under the Rogue. But it was from 2003 and the Svelte Shelf might be new and improved and the way to go now?
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True about Satchmo. I haven't listened to it since I bought it from Classic Records way back when. I am absolutely overloaded with vinyl I haven't played.
Patience Grasshopper.
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My Mezzo speakers currently have Stillpoint cones on a metal disc. I have a feeling that with the Townshend podiums, my speakers will be closer to the tile then they are with the cones/disc.
My podiums should arrive soon so I will measure but I'm guessing they will be 1"+ closer to the floor.
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@prof
The speaker bars look to be about 1/4" off the floor.
I imagine you could put coasters or plastic furniture sliders under the pods.
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@millercarbon
Are using the BDR round things under the podium pods?
Your floor is wood though, yes?
I'm on tile which doesn't transmit footsteps or sub/speaker sonic vibrations according to the seismograph app.
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I hear ya about your back. I definitely am not looking forward to lifting each 140 pound speakers onto the podiums.
Fortunately I have that inflatable 500 pound air lift bag so that might help me. Although, I may leave the spikes on initially to tip the speakers right side up and slip the podium underneath, then tip the left side up and skid the podium under. Then take all spikes off. Or maybe take the right spikes off and leave the left ones on as a pivot and slide the podium under and over to the left spikes. Hmmm.
Sticking pods under the 4 corners of my 140 pound sub should be easier since they have small spikes that I’ll remove 1 at a time.
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That's a great idea.
I have plastic furniture sliders that came with furry elastic "socks" to go over them.
I'll have to figure out a way to incorporate their use!
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millercarbon-
I've been thinking about this a bit today. It's going to be tricky. More for the right speaker than the left.
But I know what you're describing. My podiums will be on tile so that may help.
It took my installer and me SO long to get the speakers in the exact right position. So I'm fretting even a teeny tiny change.
My right speaker's left corner is near the back wall and the right corner angled forward of the wall.... Due to the wall, the left rear pod cannot go far enough back so about 4" of the speaker's left corner will be hanging off the podium
I'll have to measure each corner's distance from the wall and take pictures.
I'll have to tip the front of the speaker up and back, remove the spikes and then slip the podium under the front of speaker and slide it back until it hits the rear spikes. That is if the left rear pod doesn't hit the back wall first. Then let the front of the speaker land on the podium.
If there is room to move the podium back further, I'll use my air lift, if it can get in there in the back to prop up the back base just enough to take the back spikes off. Then push the podium back and settle the back down.
The left speaker should be easier as I'll be able to use the air lift to raise the back enough to remove the rear spikes and then slide the podium in place.
I hope it's that easy!
Getting the air lift to lift the 400 pound Sound Anchors rack to slip the Isolation corners under the spikes will be some work.
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