It's cute the way you kids think. Like toddlers stacking blocks of wood, imagining it's the Empire State Building.
Five minutes and even the worst listener will understand just how far off you are. Like, look. I went to see Picasso. I brought home the refrigerator magnet of Starry Night. No matter how much I want to believe, it's just not the same.
But you go on. Tell yourselves you found oil on canvas. Anyone can see it's crayon on paper. But you go on. I'm getting a kick out of it. Seriously. Cracks me up.
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Starry Night is Van Gogh. |
millercarbon would never buy $1.99 White Hot Stamper from Goodwill. He only appreciates $2.99 White Hot Stampers from Sam Goody. |
Doug Sax was one of the greatest mastering engineers in history.
In the mid ‘90s I almost bought Sheffield Labs and had the pleasure of being close to Doug and Lincoln. Speaking of Doug’s gear at The Mastering Lab in Hollywood, one day he opened up his control panels to show me how they were full of tubes!
His Wikipedia page has all of his hundreds of mastered albums.
Could this be a gauge for Better-Records buys? |
You might find "Starry Night" by Picasso at Goodwill.....you never know... |
The only thing I’ve ever bought from Tom Port was a few CDs from his inventory of DCC CDs. Those are some fine-sounding CDs.
On the vinyl records ... there is no way that I could convince myself to pay $300 -$500 for a record, no matter how good it sounds. I’m not knocking Better Records here, or Tom’s customers in any way. I know how good they sound because I’ve heard them. And besides ... Tom is a hard-working person who really tries to get the best sounding recordings to those who want them.
After so many years of record bin diving, thrift store capers, and garage sale rummaging, I’ve accumulated my own stash of "Hot Stampers." They reside on my "demo" shelf. Oh, they may have a tic or a pop or two, but still ... they are great-sounding records.
Dean Martin’s "Dream with Dean" is one for sure. So is Doris Day’s "Day by Day." Then there is that Brubeck promo titled "Jazz Impressions of The U.S.A. Oh, and lest I forget, there’s Jo Stafford's "Jo Stafford Sings The Blues." How about Norman Luboff’s "But Beautiful?" There’s plenty more like these in the collection. I think the most I’ve paid for any of them was the six-bucks I paid for the promo Brubeck album. I bought it still sealed from a used record store.
Frank |
"... there is no way that I could convince myself to pay $300 -$500 for a record, no matter how good it sounds." It is a bit steep, but if the record is what you really like, well, you only live once. I once wanted a Procol Harum record in mint condition together with a limited bonus single. I bought it without actually looking at the price. I think it was about $200-300. It ended up being new, still sealed, and it got digitized at its second spin and it has not been touched since then. After fifteenish years of intermittently wanting it and realizing that the bonus single was limited to 1000 copies, any price would have been diluted. It was an interesting read, indeed, so who wouldn't have gotten interested?
Listening #9 | Stereophile.com
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So now, the record itself. Visually perfect. Records are physical things and leave lots of little clues. Many times putting a record on the platter the spindle hits the label and this will leave little pressure tracks spiraling in towards the spindle. Not a one of those. Then just sliding in and out, the paper label rubs against the paper sleeve and this sort of polishes the label. No hint of that. This record has the distinct appearance of having never been played.
Certainly this is not the case. Tom played it once, at the very least. Just saying, it looks remarkably fresh and new.
The first little bit of each side is a little noisy. The rest has what I would call fairly normal surface noise- exactly as described before I bought it.
Been trying to get Tom on the phone to talk about this, no luck so far. Oh well. Here we go anyway.
First I want to say, the copy I had sounded just fine. Could play it for anyone, they would be impressed. In no way, shape or form would anyone ever consider it a poor copy. I would call it average, most would call it good. None would call it bad.
Okay, with that out of the way. The first thing I notice with the White Hot Stamper, everything is much more palpably present and floating with huge vast amounts of air around it. When strings come in they are rich and vibrant, so much so they make what was on the other copy seem strident, thin and screechy. Just a huge difference.
It is playing at the usual volume, but the sound is so much more clean and clear it makes me want to turn it up. Now I know the usual puppets eager to argue will say See! It needs to be turned up! No. It does not need to be turned up. It makes me WANT to turn it up. When I do turn it up, it sounds not just better, it sounds crazy better!
Thank God for Moabs.
Last two tracks I really do turn it up and good thing too when the lead guitar comes in on Year of the Cat it is soaring electric high above so clean and clear and I'm thinking what could be better and Parsons and Stewart have thought of that, it's called a saxophone and damn if it doesn't pack even more energy than the lead guitar solo!
Anyone ever wonders why Alan Parsons earned so much respect, one listen to what I just heard and you will know. Waited a good 6 months for this. Cost a small fortune. Worth every minute. Worth ever penny.
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My pleasure. Really wish you could hear it. Not as killer quiet as Patricia Barber 1Step. Not as dreamy liquid as Jennifer Warnes The Well 45. Yet in many ways better than either of em. And those are some mighty fine records. Tom Port coined the term, tubey magic. Or if he didn’t coin it, at least uses it a lot to describe a sound that is crisp and clean, yet full and warm, in equal measure. This record is a prime example of tubey magic. |
"Tubey Magic." A nice term ... and once heard, one will never want to go back.
MC ... you mentioned strings. When done right on a great recording, played back through a highly resolving system, massed strings just seem to waft over you like a warm wave. Nothing like it. I have an orchestral CD of Bach's "Air On a G String" that does exactly that. Yep, a CD no less. Even CDs, believe it or not, have their Hot Stampers.
Frank |
Full orchestra is amazing. Especially White Hot Tchaikovsky. Only other thing like it is Mike Lavigne's. I'll be headed there tomorrow. |
mglik- Doug Sax was one of the greatest mastering engineers in history.
In the mid ‘90s I almost bought Sheffield Labs and had the pleasure of being close to Doug and Lincoln. Speaking of Doug’s gear at The Mastering Lab in Hollywood, one day he opened up his control panels to show me how they were full of tubes!
His Wikipedia page has all of his hundreds of mastered albums. Almost missed this: You almost bought Sheffield Labs??! You are hereby officially invited to take up as much of my thread as you wish expanding on that comment! One of my most treasured recordings, Michael Ruff, Speaking in Melodies, is a Sheffield. Live studio recording, some of it direct to two-track, one of the most "you are there" sounds around. Janis Ian, Breaking Silence, the audiophile classic demo disc has a big section of small print on the back listing all the care taken, that it is all tubes, and of course "mastered by Doug Sax at The Mastering Lab on all tube electronics." There’s even a bit in there somewhere about the tube mic used on Janis Ian. Could this be a gauge for Better-Records buys? For sure it is a gauge of some kind. Thing of it is, the chain of events and components that runs from the performer to the listener is way longer and with way more links than most of us know. Maybe more than we can know. Here, for example, are some of the liner notes from Breaking Silence: Tracks were recorded at Nightingale Studio on a Studer 820, 24-track machine, 30ips, non-Dolby, at the elevation of +6/250nu using Ampex 499 tape.
Included among the mics used on the recording dates were: Nuemann M-49, AKG C-12, Telefunken 251, Sheffield C-9, and a custom built tube direct box on the bass. Janis’ vocal was recorded using a Telefunken U-47 and a Mastering Lab mic preamp, linked with series-one Monster Cable direct to the back of the Multi-track machine with no EQ or Limiting.
The album was mixed at Bill Schnee Studio to an Ampex ATR 1/2" machine, at 30ips, non-Dolby, at the elevation of +3/250nu on Ampex 499 tape. The reverb on the album was an EMT tube plate used along with natural room sounds captured in the recording. During the mixing of the album, "Some People’s Lives" was recorded direct to two-track using the same vocal chain as above and Telefunken 251’s on the piano. Take number two was used as the album cut.
The album was mixed using Mastering Labs modified Tannoy SGM-10’s powered by Sherwood Sax, monoblock tube amps.
Okay. So that is just to give everyone some idea all the many links in the chain. Just a few of em anyway. And think of it, all we have at this point is a master tape. We say "master tape" like it’s nothing. But look what goes into producing it! All the above details amount to is the tip of the iceberg! The darn thing still needs to be pressed into albums! A process that itself is every bit as technically challenging as recording and mastering. All so we can drag a needle through it, something Peter Ledermann says, "This should not work!" Now the thing is, most of us have at one time or another noticed technical bits like the above on various audiophile recordings. How many have ever seen similar details describing the cutting lathe, mother, stamper, etc? Anyone? Beuller? Not talking about in general. We all know in general. Just like we all know in general they record, mix, master. We know they cut wax on a lathe, stamp out records. Where have you ever seen an album list the exact equipment used? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0mQeLWCCoSo yeah, like I said, a gauge of sorts. Just as it is possible to have a great sounding system with not so great speakers- resting on a foundation of outstanding upstream components- it is possible to have a not so good pressing sound great simply because it is the last link in an unusually strong recording chain. |
@millercarbon can you share what the hot stamper is for “Year of the Cat”? I love that album and continue to buy used in search of the holy grail. I have UK and USA copies with different matrix numbers in the inner grove.
So what are the matrix numbers in the inner groove of your hot stamper?
Thanks! |
Ahh, it doesn't work that way. The hot wax markings you're talking about are the same for every single one of the hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions, pressed off that stamper. If finding a Hot Stamper was that easy there would be no need for Tom.
This is not the case. My copy of Rumours is exactly the same as my Hot Stamper, right down to the hot wax. The sound however is nowhere near the same.
This comes up over and over again. I've explained it at least twice now in this thread alone. Tom has explained some more on his site. Sadly, even people who read these comments ignore the information and repeat the false narrative. You cannot find a good sounding record merely by looking at it. Only by playing can you tell.
Now as for your finding a really good sounding copy, good luck. I became a Better-Records.com "Good Customer" by letting everyone know how great they are. Someone came back and posted that they bought one based on my review, and they agree it is everything I said it was. Tom saw that and said, "Anything I can do for you?" This all happened around the time I was watching his site daily for Year of the Cat. So I said, can you find me a YOTC?
What he said, That's a hard one. Not a lot of good sounding copies out there. Don't come up that often. Might take a while.
Wound up taking a good 6 months, at least.
So those are your options: search record stores until finally convincing yourself the least crappy one is good (what most do), visit better-records.com at least twice a day using search (I recommend bookmark the Al Stewart search) and if you see one do not hesitate, just buy it immediately! Or devote 3 to 5 hours a day posting millercarbonesque level commentary and see where that takes you.
I would go with checking the website regularly. Search around on it, all kinds of great info, and lots of other great records too.
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Someone came back and posted that they bought one based on my review............ Tom saw that and said, "Anything I can do for you?" So I said, can you find me..... Feel free to remind him that someone (me, in this case) ordered a record just because the person read your advertisement/thread. Maybe you can get another record of your choice. |
n is a very large number....
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Thanks so much for the explanation @millercarbon. Very much appreciated. |
"...devote 3 to 5 hours a day posting millercarbonesque level commentary and see where that takes you." Please don't. Such places are running out of capacity. |
“White hot stamper”
So the seller has a stamping machine? Because the stamper is that which does the stamping.
A “white hot stamping” would be a record very well stamped by a white hot stamper.
”My white hot stamper produces white hot stampings” vs. “I have a white hot stamper but nothing to stamp.”
or
“I bought a white hot stamping from my friend’s white hot stamper.”
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ego will only get you so far.... search pressing plant runout etchings...
and i find the newfound obsession with the recording chain, including microphones hilarious..... |
Tom Port must have thick skin. Personally, I’m a big fan of White Hots. Own too many to admit. It’s real, what MC is saying. Except for the part about Picasso painting Starry Night.
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Picasso, Van Gogh, whatever. Wasn't even Starry Night. The Night Cafe. Like it matters. Leave it to an audiophile to go off topic just to show off and get a dig in. Even when they agree, even when it detracts from the point they're trying to make, just got to show off and get the dig in. So mind-numbingly boringly repetitious.
Tom said get ready to be slashed to death. Then said pleasantly surprised it hasn't degenerated quite as fast or as much as usual.
He's right. First time I brought this up it was something like 99 to 1 insults and arguments. This time several here have bought them, heard them, and agree. Based on my personal experience there's way more who agree than are willing to post about it and endure the barrage of bullying blowhards. Too bad about the bozo's but the good news is, they don't seem to be able to stop the good news getting out. |
the best sounding records i ever heard, were japanese pressings. of course the MFSL versions sounded just as good but not discernibly better to me despite the half-speed mastering. best of all was a universe of records played on an ELP, that thing is MAGIC! a trashed record, once it is lab-grade clean [must be that clean to play on an ELP or you'll be sorry!] the normal playback sins [pinch effect, mistracking damage] are GONE! it is [with few exceptions] the closest i've come to hearing the actual by-god analog master tape. |
This is a great business model. We all know already that every successive pressing is a little less perfect than the one before. So if you have the 1000th and last press from a stamper the quality is not as good as press number one from the new stamper. So buy up 10 pressings at random for $5. Check the numbers, listen if you like, then pick one of them to list at $300. Sell the other 9 for $6. The buyer of the $300 copy listens with their wallet anyway - but it may well be the better pressing out of this sample of 10.
So, outgoings for a title is $50, plus maintaining a website and some listening time. Income for that title is $354.
I’m not playing that game. I can listen to a great mastering of Year of the Cat and any of another several million titles for the $15 a month I give to Qobuz. |
pguezze, check it out, Super Hot Year of the Cat on Better-Records.com right now! |
"Tom said get ready to be slashed to death. Then said pleasantly surprised it hasn't degenerated quite as fast or as much as usual." You could have skipped this part. It is not a great PR. |
bluemoodriver, "This is a great business model." Seems like it. From the buyer's perspective, though, it is a one-stop deal. No need to waste time and effort. Marketing approach is another interesting piece of the puzzle. To start, you gain perceived legitimity by having your own website as opposed to Discogs or eBay. Sell expensive ones on your website and the rest on Discogs, or wherever else. Nothing wrong with that. It does not seem there is a bad record sold on better-records.com. Where do losers from shoot-outs go? |
Thanks Charles. I will consider. The price is a bit steep but I have spent close to that in the past for must have albums. |
For sure Glupson, it’s not for me but it is a great business. I wish I had thought of it. There is a value added; an element of risk and uncertainty removed for the customer; nagging doubts about source quality are reduced. And there seems to be a market. The option of doing it yourself is there - buy a sample of 10, keep the best, sell on the rest - but if you can’t be bothered and can fork out €200 for someone else to do the work and apply their ears, then no robbery has happened. Nice business. |
I think, when he delivers what is promised... great.
I threw around -overrated/hyped - 100 reissues a 30$ into trash,,, 3000$ burned based on deaf reviewer „recommendations“ who sell their mother for a dime...
That money given to Tom Port is the better way, even when you get only a few records...but these are something special ... |
Message to stamper guy if he reads these forums.
You're probably seeing a bump in you're business due to this thread.
Send a "WHITE HOT STAMPER" to the milliercarbon-gratis.
I was thinking.....if someone tried to undercut the business-(1/2 the cost of typical), could you break even at minimum? With the amount of copies of "Hotel California" and "Aja" you need to buy up, all related operating cost(Ecommerce,shipping etc) you will be......BROKE!
Writing skills will also need to be honed, because he's learned "selling the sizzle".
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"Send a "WHITE HOT STAMPER" to the milliercarbon-gratis." With a nice thank you note. |
pgueeze- Don't wait, you WILL regret it! The one I saw 6 months ago was only listed a couple days and when I saw it, sold! Then 6 months goes by and NOTHING! Mine is A+++ across both sides. The one listed now is very close to that. I have some just like it, A+++ on one side, A++ and a half on the other. You will never know. But that slight half a + lowers the price considerably! Mine cost $400. This one only $250! Very close, for a lot less.
The smooth, rich, deep detail, layers and layers, you won't believe. MoFi is pathetic. Parsons created one of the great recordings of all time. But you will never know it till you hear it. |
I have not tried one of Tom's records but may one day. I do believe in this but not sure the cost is worth it to me. Michael Fremer has a video from a couple years ago at a conference where he explained this. The primary example is for Columbia records and the last part of the runout. If I remember correctly, the letters signify the pressing location as well as the number lacquer. Seems A,B or C would be the first lacquers across the 3 main pressing plants. I have never bought multiple copies of records unless my first copy was simply unlistenable or if a really cool reissue came out of a favorite. I watch most of Fremer's at-home videos and you will notice he will have 15-20 copies of the same album sometimes in the background. I happened to have two copies of Toto IV. I randomly pulled them out a few weeks ago and played the one in the better sleeve as I expected I would have put the better sounding record there. Afterward I pulled out the other record and was like damn!! Not that gain equals quality but it was louder an so much more dynamic. You guessed it, the good one has an A and the other has a Z. Not sure what level stamper I have but it is definitely a special copy or my other is simply a crap copy. Michael explains that this doesn't alway equal better quality because you could then be comparing the first record off lacquer Z to the last record from lacquer A. It is pretty cool just how complicated vinyl can be...or is it maddening...whatever...it's cool! |
Fremer is right, as far as he goes. The way I think of those kind of hot wax stamper things is, you can use it to avoid buying a whole lot of crap that may have come off a crap stamper. A crap stamper will stamp crap from the first pressing until forever. But a really good stamper, one where everything was done right, that still does not guarantee every record pressed is magically A+++ level sound quality. I bet even if you somehow had the first hundred or thousand or whatever copies pressed, even that would be no guarantee. It might well be that the first really good A+++ copy is not #1 or #32 or even #576 but #2389 off that stamper. Might be, then again might not. Point is we just don't know. Would have to be there playing them as they come off in order to know. Never happen. Certainly not gonna happen now, 50 years after the fact. So all we can do is play, listen, evaluate, choose.
Yeah it is pretty cool. I was just over at Mike Lavigne's place the other night. Mike has this vast collection of recordings. Some of em on multiple records AND also on tape! One record, he was telling me how the original sounds better than the later reissue because even though the reissue was made with much greater care and attention to detail it was made from a tape that was much older and tape degrades just sitting there not even being played. Records, everyone loves to complain about surface noise but one thing about a record, it does not degrade just sitting there.
Look, when the entire human race was sending the first Voyager spacecraft out and knew it would ultimately one day be the first thing to leave the Solar system and who knows maybe encounter extraterrestrial life, and we wanted to communicate, how did we do it? Put a record on it. Because Carl Sagan knew it would not degrade, and anyone anywhere could play it. Cool as cool can be. |
Look, when the entire human race was sending the first Voyager spacecraft.........and we wanted to communicate, how did we do it? Put a record on it. Because Carl Sagan knew it would not degrade, and anyone anywhere could play it. Cool as cool can be.
It would have been quite unexpected to put FLAC files on it in 1977. Or a CD, for that matter. "Carl Sagan knew it would not degrade, and anyone anywhere could play it." Carl Sagan must have been hopeful that Martians’ would adjust VTA properly. Even if all of that were true, it seems that Carl Sagan did not believe in non-degradable record technology Mike Lavigne, millercarbon, me, or anyone else, have at home... "The record is constructed of gold-plated copper and is 12 inches (30 cm) in diameter. The record’s cover is aluminum and electroplated upon it is an ultra-pure sample of the isotope uranium-238. Uranium-238 has a half-life of 4.468 billion years." Voyager - Making of the Golden Record (nasa.gov) There are some instructions on the cover, and it does seem that the turntable is included... Voyager - The Golden Record Cover (nasa.gov) "Each record is encased in a protective aluminum jacket, together with a cartridge and a needle. Instructions, in symbolic language, explain the origin of the spacecraft and indicate how the record is to be played. The 115 images are encoded in analog form." "The remainder of the record is in audio, designed to be played at 16-2/3 revolutions per minute." |
Every LP is of course the end product of a number of separate manufacturing steps. And the term "master tape" has a couple of equally valid definitions: since the introduction of first the 3-track machine---then the 4-track, 8-track, 16-track, etc---there is both the multi-track master and the final 2-track mixdown master.
Every piece of gear used to make an LP has an effect upon the PVC disc you place on your turntable. The recording microphones and their related electronics (mic pre-amps, etc.), the multi-track recorder, the 2-track mixdown deck, the recording and mixing consoles, the outboard gear (limiters, equalizers, etc.)---everything. Then the lacquer-cutting machine and it’s electronics, the talent of the mastering engineer, the quality of the "fathers" and then "mothers" created from the lacquer, the plating of the mothers, the quality of the stampers (each mother is used to make a certain number of stampers, and each stamper a certain number of LP’s, those numbers a reflection of the quality standards of all involved), the quality of the PVC used to make the LP, and on and on.
The matter of original pressings vs. "audiophile" reissues has been raised. When Music Direct bought MoFi, they hired Tim de Paravicini (EAR Yoshino, Luxman) to design a perfectionist mastering chain. Kavi Alexander had previously hired Tim to design electronics for the recorder he uses to make his incredible Water Lily label recordings. The electronics employed in the making of mass-produced LP’s (whether White Hot Stamper or otherwise) vary in quality, but it is quite safe to assume that none approach the quality of that found in the LP-producing equipment found at Mofi’s RTI pressing plant, Analogue Productions’ QRP, and Pallas in Germany. It is like comparing a mass-market budget surround-sound receiver to a high-end pre-amp and power amp (such as made by EAR Yoshino and Luxman). And the 180 gram PVC pellets those plants use to make their LP’s is vastly better than was the vinyl used in the 60’s/70’s/80, etc.
When Kevin Gray and Ryan K. Smith create a new production master tape for an audiophile reissue, they spend a lot of time and money finding the original 3, 4, 8, or 16-track master (whether 1/2", 1", or 2"), the 1st-generation 2-track midown tape (either 1/4" or 1/2"), or both. They then use high a high quality system of electronics and recorders to create that new master tape. The newly-created master is used to cut a new lacquer, a new father and mother, and new stampers, all done to the highest standards. If you think mass-produced LP’s (routinely made from 2nd or 3rd-generation "safety" tapes) were ever made with this degree of care, you are free to try to find a few "good" ones.
It is arguable that every audiophile-quality LP is a White Hot Stamper disc, as the reissue companies press a very low number of LP’s from each stamper, all copies therefore being far more alike that dissimilar. The question then becomes: Does the passage of time from the making of the recording have more of a deleterious effect on the sound of the master tape than do all the factors covered above, or visa versa? For a good test, compare an original UK "pink" label Island Tea For The Tillerman to the current Analogue Productions LP. I have my answer.
Not even mentioned are the compromises made in mastering and LP production in the old days. Bass was routinely rolled off below 100Hz (or summed to mono---or both), and compression was applied to reduce dynamic range, and that’s just to name two. The best LP’s ever made are those being made now, by far. |
Right. MoFi reissue of Bitches Brew album is a complete junk compared to the original US 360 sound record and to the first Japanese pressing.
Japanese JVC vinyl from 70s is great and very quiet.
And who needs these 180g records ? This is BS.
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inna6, >>> Right you are. I was listening to an early stereo LP of Vic Damon on an original Columbia six-eye tonight. The man was right in front of me. Frank |
bdp24- It is arguable that every audiophile-quality LP is a White Hot Stamper .....
Not even mentioned.... Is that you never bought or heard one, and so are as a matter of fact blathering pure ad copy and amply embellished imaginings. Am I right? Tell me I'm not right. Or if I am wrong then which ones did you buy? The answer is none, right? Right? I am gonna say none. I am gonna say so certain it is none not gonna wait. Will take my lumps if proven wrong. Which I won't be. Do you honestly think you said one thing we don't already know? For damn sure I have heard it all before. That is the whole point of the thread. To let people know and make them aware the ad copy is just that: ad copy! The stories are nice- but they are just that: stories! Not saying the stories are lies. Not saying they didn't take every care, do their best to get it right. Bought a lot of those records myself. I'm sure they did do everything they say they did. That is not the question. Here's the rub: we are not talking about who did what. We are talking about how it sounds! For all your wordy words of regurgitated ad copy the sad fact is you have no way of knowing until you listen! If you have not listened then you just don't know. Too late now to edit your post. So what you should do, copy it, remove it, and paste into a new post this time with: " Of course I have never heard one and so have no idea what I am talking about BUT.." and then continue on with your uninformed opinion piece. Could you do that for me please? Thank you. |
Pristine "White Hot" copies are rare birds. I've heard from a reliable source that Tom goes through as many as forty to fifty copies sometimes in order to find one that is suitable to be sold on his site.
I personally have over 5000 vinyl records. How many super White Hot Stamper copies do I have? A few ... that's it. Oh, I have many great-sounding records, but only a few that I could call A+++ stampers as Tom Port sells.
Frank |
"...so are as a matter of fact blathering pure ad copy and amply embellished imaginings." Isn’t that what the premise of this thread, its original post, is all about? "That is the whole point of the thread." I have a feeling that those discussing, rather than religiously promoting, circumstances around Better Records records are trying... "To let people know and make them aware the ad copy is just that: ad copy!"
"Of course I have never heard one and so have no idea what I am talking about BUT.." and then continue on with your uninformed opinion piece. Wrong thread. That must have been meant for the OP of Tekton Moab thread. |
Excellent post glupson. Spot on.
Tom looks at 40 records to find a White Hot stamper. According to the source of all knowledge, Wikipedia, The Year of the Cat went platinum in the U. S. in 1977 ie one million sold. This suggests there are at least 25000 white hot stampers lurking around the U.S alone. I’m sure I have one. My copy sounds fantastic. |
Does Better Records source their candidates from different geographical areas, or it is only/mostly U.S.A. oriented?
I have records from a number of different countries and I, and not only I, overall found German-made ones (regardless of if bought in Germany vs. Austria) better than their Italian counterparts. So I still look for German ones. I did buy a few of the same records from the same era, but made in U.S.A. and I, again very subjectively, found them to be inferior to German "stampers". Maybe some International Tom could elaborate on my observations. Maybe a regular German pressing is equivalent to U.S.A. White Hot Stamper? In which case, I just wasted money. Well, we will hear... |
I can only give one example. Cielo e Terra album by Al di Meola. Speaking of the original pressings. Recorded in the US, so presumably the master tape was also in the US. I probably had ten US pressings, they sounded slightly better/worse but none was close to hot pressing. Then I tried Dutch pressing. Much better, still no. There is no German pressing, at least I didn’t find it. Then I got regular Japanese one. Better than Dutch in every respect. And then I got Japanese promo, Now that sounds good. Then I got another Japanese promo. Sounds even better, clearly better, fuller, more dynamic and detailed. So, I guess I now have a White Hot Stamper. It took a lot of time and effort to find it. Only test pressing, either the US or Japanese, should be better. But, who knows, maybe there is an even better sounding Japanese promo ? How many more of them am I going to buy if they come up for sale ? All of them ?
That’s the beauty of record pressing hunting, there might always exist a better sounding record. In my case, at least those US records cost me about $10 on average and the rest were not much either. Still, so much work, including cleaning. |
Yes inna, it is a lot of work. And then even after finding something way better than average you listen to A+++ and your jaw drops. The range of quality between pressings is that big. oregonpapa- Pristine "White Hot" copies are rare birds. I’ve heard from a reliable source that Tom goes through as many as forty to fifty copies sometimes in order to find one that is suitable to be sold on his site.
I personally have over 5000 vinyl records. How many super White Hot Stamper copies do I have? A few ... that’s it. Oh, I have many great-sounding records, but only a few that I could call A+++ stampers as Tom Port sells.
Frank Right. And even those few may not be. Remember that guy you hooked me up with? Easily the most seriously devoted record bin diver type I ever met. First thing he said, near impossible to find a really good YOTC. Nevermind White Hot. Merely really good. A while later he called saying he found a Hot Stamper worthy Steve Miller Book of Dreams. Wanted a lot for it, but less than a Hot Stamper, way less than a Super Hot Stamper, and way way way less than a White Hot Stamper. So I decided to take a chance. And let’s be honest, it does sound better than my random copy of Steve Miller Fly Like An Eagle. Not hugely better. Not Hot Stamper better, but better. Good enough I am not about to complain. It feels silly having to explain this, but some of the kids around here need to hear it: this is an accurate assessment. When the accurate assessment is positive you do not become a fanboy. When the accurate assessment is negative you do not become a hater. I tell it like it is, and let the chips fall where they may. And again, this is not to pick on him. Just trying to set some people straight. Because even this accomplished bin diver, who has found records good enough Tom Port bought them, even this guy who represented to me this was Hot Stamper quality, this copy is just not there. Not even close. This is the hard part to get across to people. We can try and explain it in math terms, probabilities. Then some yahoo genius can’t find his way out of a wet paper bag thinks that means they are everywhere. They are not everywhere. Another brilliant midwit with a record that doesn’t skip and sounds slightly better than all his other crap thinks that means all his not crappy crap is Hot Stamper level. In truth? Not even. But the only way to really understand is to pay the price, play the record, and listen. Instead it’s all, "I learn through the mouth by talking." Not you Frank. Just using your example as a launch pad for blasting off on the wanna bees posting above. |
"Remember that guy you hooked me up with?" ????? "Just trying to set some people straight." Is anybody else confused by this post above? |
Back from romance to records.
I am waiting for my White Hot Stamper to arrive. So far, order has been confirmed and credit card charged. Hopefully, it will ship soon. |
Right. Okay. So, which one? What did you buy?
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