Better Records White Hot Stampers: Now the Story Can Be Told!
'It just always takes a while for the masses to catch up with the leaders." I followed the leader and bought a record from Better Records. Where did it take me? To the point that nobody is interested in listening to that record for her/himself despite me offering it. It may be that masses have not reached critical mass yet and that I am, in fact, some kind of a junior leader. |
"In 2020, 27.5 million LPs were sold in the United States, up 46 percent compared to 2019" Playing with these numbers it comes (roughly) to this. In 2019, 18 million people bought one record each (over the course of 12 months). In 2020, same 18 million people bought one more record each and half of them bought an additional record. So, 9 million people bought one record and 9 million people bought two records each. If we propose that vinyl comeback means that people really like records, we could assume that each vinyl-lover bought more than one record in 2019. Let’s say they bought two which is still a fairly low number for someone into records and who is going through keeping and maintaining vinyl-playing equipment. That would make it 9 million people who bought two records each in 2019. One record every six months. Now, is it safe to assume that in reality an average vinyl lover bought at least four or five records in 2019? That would bring us to, maybe, 4 million buyers in 2019. As impressive as the percentage of growth appears to be, it may really bring us to everyone just buying an extra record, two, or three in 2020. That would, optimistically, be one extra record every four months. Which does not seem to me to be some feverish unstoppable shopping. Of course, I may be wrong on all of the above. I was just trying to imagine how many people really buy (new) records and what is the dynamics of their dedication. |
unreceivedogma, I was actually poking on how old the technologies are, just like the writer of that article was ("...it’s still interesting to witness a hundred year-old technology come back from near extinction.") As for the statistics, it shows up around here from time to time and somehow only parts from the article get highlighted. I would not hold my breath for records to become 21st century force. Or, as the other part of the article stated, we should put in perspective. "Factoring in streaming and downloads of single tracks, however, that number drops to 3.6 percent of album equivalent music consumption, which puts things in perspective." To put it in even more of a perspective, those numbers probably do not include used record sales so true idea about how big of a market records are may be unclear. I am just guessing that. Having said that, I do not stream (except for Internet radio) and have just bought a few records. |
"...to put a laser hologram on the vinyl so subsequent buyers know it is genuine then resale values will grow..." As an idea it seems good, but... Once you order from Better Records you have some reassurance/faith that the record is likely good. Once you are buying that same record from someone, you do not have such reassurance. That person has been playing it and was treating it whatever way she/he treats own records. For all you know, the record may now be just as any other record on the market. How many people here would go for a relatively ordinary title, pay almost Better Records prices, and know that the record has last been graded by Better Records some time and an unknown number of plays ago? At the same time, once you consider paying Better Records prices, you are way too deep in to be thinking about resale value. |
millercarbon, Just take the compliment in stride and with some humor instead of constantly being aggressive as a defense. You wrote another very decent and reasonable post on another thread today. I started responding to it and then thought you would just become your angry self so I skipped it. thecarpathian fell into the trap here. Arguing when you are angry is not your strongest feature. Do not do it. You just dig the hole under yourself. |
People, you are making me blush. Now, this was just two guys and one sleeping dog spending evening doing something actually not that important. Your results may be completely different as our sample of this completely statistically insignificant experiment was so small and methods were what they could reasonably be without us feeling silly for taking it too seriously. Having said that, if there is anyone interested, we can repeat it and double the number of study subjects. If there is anyone who already owns an Emotional Rescue album by the Rolling Stones and is, hopefully, familiar with it beyond "I have heard it before", along with having interest to try for her/himself, let me know. You know who you are. You bought a record when it came out, danced to some songs in your local disco, do not have to check what the next song will be, etc. If there is anyone like that who is interested in comparing so, as the OP said, the story can be told, let me know how to mail you this record. You mail it back once you are done. Anyone up to making millercarbon fret for a couple of weeks? I do not mind if your results are different from ours. |
millercarbon, Thanks for your condolences. The difference between your and mine approach in reviewing anything is that I comment on things only after I have had some experience with them while you sing accolades before ever laying your eyes, much less ears, on them. It makes my posts tiny little bit more believable despite inevitably being subjective to some extent. If you paid attention to my posts, you could learn things between the lines. It is even for free. |
mapman, I take very good care of my things and most of the things are quite clean. I try not to give them a chance to get dirty. I did deeper cleaning this time because thecarpathian and you asked for it. I probably would not have done it otherwise. At the same time, you may be underestimating my attention to detail. None of the three records used for comparison had been played in forever. My friend had even forgotten he has one in his rack, but I did remember. Get your Emotional Rescue record out and tell us how it seems to you. tomcy6, "glupson, would you go out and pick up another 20 copies to test that theorem?" Well, stern and resolute...NO!!! German pressing is mine from way back when. It had many many chances to become anything but Hot Stamper. It somehow survived. I vaguely remember reading that Keith Richards named Emotional Rescue as his least favorite Rolling Stones album. At least at the moment of that interview which was a long time ago. What does he know... |
tomcy6, I realized, my mistake. I thought that the person who would buy Some Girls might also have Emotional Rescue laying somewhere around. Emotional Rescue was the actual White Hot Stamper in question here. I know, not your usual "audiophile dream material", which I hope makes it even more relevant for real world situation. |
tomcy6, You are partially correct. I hear well enough to get through the day, stereo, except for cartridges, was my friend's (we discarded his Ortofon 2M Red), and there is hardly any question about me being a lowlife. As long as there is "life" in that, I guess it is still fine. The question for a normal audiophile will come down to if the difference is worth the money. Provided the person already has a reasonably good copy of a certain record. That is impossible to decide for others. I just wanted to check if there is a difference between White Hot Stamper and other random copies available. In this case, there was. Remind me, was it you who has Some Girls? Do you have Emotional Rescue, too? |
As luck will have it, my friend has a Mobile Fidelity record cleaning solution and brush. I doubt he has ever used it before, though. Maybe I had bought it for him at some point in life. We, eventually, settled on Soundsmith Othello and Technics EPC-207 as the best of the cartridge bunch we had available. No clear winner between those two. I am sorry if that disappoints anyone. We tried all the cartridges with a few other records to decide what to leave for our experiment. We (actually I) cleaned old records to the best of our ability. We did not touch the White Hot Stamper. Manually. Made it wet, waited, distilled water, whole eight and a half yards. How good it was may be debatable, but it was the best we could do. All the records looked clean afterwards. German one still looked almost mint while Italian and U.S.A. ones looked clean but obviously used. No real scratches of any kind, just did not look as good as the German one. Quick screening of those three old records was simple. German copy did sound better. Do not ask me for poetry in explanation. Basically, other two seemed to have narrower range, much less details. Almost like, although not to such a dramatic extent, like having a ball of dust on the stylus. No, stylus was clean. We discarded those two from further comparison as the whole thing needed getting up, playing, getting up, changing, etc. Life is too short for that. The one clearly the best out of three was enough. White Hot Stamper, looking pristine, was still surprising. There were still, not that loud, crackles between the songs. Not noticeable during the music playing, but they were there. I guess it is inherent to the medium. Going back to how well our records were cleaned under our imperfect conditions, all three of them had about the same level of those crackles as the White Hot Stamper. I guess that cleaning did work somehow and that I take better care of my records than one would expect. Again, with similar level of this minor crackling, German record was much better. We played the German record first and in its entirety. It was good, you should not ask for much more than that, I think. In particular because this was the Rolling Stones from the pop/disco era. It was not a chamber orchestra. As I had mentioned earlier, it was about real life, real circumstances, real music, real everything. It was not to be a laboratory grade experiment. For that, I recommend Mike Lavigne’s recommendation Dameronia with strings. Being perfectly satisfied with the old German record from early eighties that had been played in its time quite a bit, we switched to the star of the show. White Hot Stamper was from the beginning really more of sounds, more of impact, more of bass, more details. Not more of a singer’s voice, but that is how it was recorded/mixed and it probably has nothing to do with the record itself. I cannot say it was night and day and the other record could be called garbage, but comparatively this one was better. Better as in "yes, this one is more" sort of thing. Without direct comparison, one after another, the difference would have probably not been that noticeable. Partly because of the recorded material, I believe. Having a task to compare them so close, White Hot Stamper was overall more impactful. As a bonus, we compared it to an early CD and we definitely preferred the sound of the record, either of them, to CD. Which is not to say that CD would have not worked in any other scenario. As I said, we preferred. I am not going into which one was supposedly and semi-objectively better. Both of us had similar objection, though, and it is more about psychology than about objectiveness. We felt that White Hot Stamper crossed from our usual expectation of that particular record into a sharper image that felt unusual. It was better in every sense of that word, we thought, but it did not align with our long memory of how (imperfect) we have learned that record to be. We did listen to it a few more times since then and it started sinking in. Not there yet, but it is getting there so I am considering digitizing it and having that digital copy for a regular use. As a conclusion, if I were a vinyl fan and I found some dear album at better-records.com, I would give it a shot again. Had there not been pops and clicks advertised, I would have already picked another one there. Of course, my sample has so far been so small that it may be close to irrelevant as a recommendation, but I am saying what I would do. Others have already reported variations in quality of Stampers so one may need to risk and learn. As far as "is it worth it" goes, in this particular case, I cannot say that the difference was so phenomenal that I would want to replace everything I have with White Hot Stampers. As I said, based on this experience, I would easily add a few more favorite records to the list. Double that if I were a real vinyl junkie. However, I am not a die-hard vinyl fan. Keep in mind, for an average person, prices can add up so one may need to rationalize a bit. That part is impossible to elaborate on. Another White Hot Stamper detail unrelated to the better-records.com purchase was happily amusing. After the tested record, I put a recent acquisition of The Boomtown Rats Diamond Smiles single on. Now, that must be some Scorching White Hot Stamper. I guess I just got lucky. No crackling, sounded richer than I have ever dreamed it would, beyond perfect. In my friend’s words (he did not know what I was putting on and was not expecting anything): "Wow, now this is something." It cost maybe $5-10 on discogs.com and it came from half the world away. If you have time, will, interest, etc., you could obviously find White Hot Stampers by yourself. For added hundred, two, or three, if not more, Better Records does it for you, it seems. It depends how you like to play your hobby. After writing all this boring recap, I cannot resist mentioning that comparing records, and even listening to them properly, is a bit of a chore. Server/streamer is way more convenient. I doubt I will put a record on a turntable any time soon again. However, if it makes you feel good, you definitely should. EDIT: I forgot to mention, but this tested White Hot Stamper appears to be Made in U.S.A. |
"does the Dog get a sonic vote ?" He is a dog. He gets an ultrasonic vote. By the way, his name is Bruno. Well, he actually fell asleep in front of the speaker. It is late so I am lazy to write more than one sentence now, but in short, yes White Hot Stamper does sound overall better than other three and holds its own against an early CD. In fact, if you like vinyl sound, it is much better. If you are not obsessed with vinyl, there are other threads to discuss that. |
mahgister, It is all silly, but around here we make an elephant out of the fly. We often lose compass and forget that matters discussed here are not life-or-death. In my view, it should be simple and unimportant fun, not anything more than that. So, with such a playful approach, why not try it out? I understand limitations of this approach, but I am not trying to change the world. At least not with this. I am in good health for all I know. That test was for the dog, not for me. |
"perhaps use Windex and the Coton de Tulear?" That dog sheds like crazy. That is not to say he is not a bit crazy anyway. He does make his way into the sweet spot all the time, unless I am already there. Unrelated trivia, I took a Coronavirus test yesterday only to make sure I do not infect the dog. I am dead (ok, still alive) serious. My friend would survive his own disease, but would not survive if the dog got sick. |
mapman, You are correct on all counts. Still, to my defense, even if I cleaned old records to the best of my abilty with the best of the equipment I could buy tomorrow morning, there would still be a variable of "their cleaning process, solution, something else, is better than mine so that is where the difference hides". It becomes so many variables that it becomes practically unmanageable. In reality, I am hoping to figure out if there is a major difference, one that hits you as soon as you start playing it, rather than some nuance. Some records on better-records.com are even described as having pops and clicks. I assume that overall sound must still be strikingly better when they cost in hundreds of dollars. Well, as it is purely an entertainment, I am welcoming suggestions and revealing limitations. In the end, it is just innocent fun and nobody gets hurt. My results will be limited by laughably small sample, but it may be better than nothing. |
"Don't forget to thoroughly clean the copies you already have, to put them on a level playing field." Houston, we have a problem. Not much in a way of cleaning machines/equipment. Luckily, my two copies are visually good, one looks near mint although not as good as this new one. As millercarbon mentioned, I thought mine looked like new, but this one looks newer. I will have to pretend that we are comparing real life situations. Decently-maintained random copies with White Hot Stamper. Scenario that would be applicable to most. I will pretend that none of you have fancy cleaning equipment. |
There was/is a business card (at least it looks and feels like that) and it says A+++, A+++. Does that qualify as a tagger? Grooves look impressive. I can see the depth of the lows and edginess of the highs. However, that is only with a magnifying glass. Without it, they look like black ice. For real, the record does look clean and neat. I am almost hesitant to play it not to spoil the magic of its looks. |
Carol seems to have changed a bit since that picture on the Internet, but I do not doubt it was her personally. Thanks millercarbon. The record was packaged well. Probably the safest I have gotten them so far. Sturdy record-sized box, then decent bubble wrap, then sandwiched between two cardboards sized like the record cover. After that, the actual record in Diskeeper sleeve and cover in shrinkwrap and in its own sleeve. Stickers "Keep away from heat" and "Fragile" on the outside. I pulled the record out for brief inspection (with the magnifying glass), but by maybe one third to avoid any additional contamination before playing. As someone earlier mentioned, if it had been cleaned, it had been cleaned really well. Otherwise, looks mint. Nothing visible at all. That is all for today. I am not playing it until I get to where we will compare it to its brethern. And you thought I was joking? |
Speaking of Eastern front, namely Stalingrad, there must have been many of them but I met only two who walked back. One took two years to get home and would not say a word about it except that he was at Stalingrad, that he mostly walked, and that it was not easy getting back. The other one was more talkative about the trip but just shook his head when being asked about Stalingrad, also mostly walked. It took him year and a half. So, important question, do fuses change sound? |
oregonpapa, "That’s what I look back on with satisfaction knowing that I’ll be leaving this earthly place better off than how I found it. :-)" If you have been collecting records for 70 years, you were likely born when Earth was an unpleasant mess. Major wars, economic crises, something must have been around during those times. |
oregonpapa, Is it safe to assume that some/many of the records in your collection have never been released in digital form? With every passing day, there is less and less physical copies of your records in the world. That may be a nice project as you have a good playback system. Copying true rarities into digital format (files, not CDs, if possible) for grandchildren’s grandchildren. I am not sure how to go around making sure that it does not get deleted by someone disinterested at some point. Maybe contact one of the streaming services? Maybe some of those records fall into public domain now? Just ideas, I am not sure how interesting or feasible they are. |
oregonpapa, Your collection is for yourself. You have enjoyed it for 70 years. You did not start it thinking of some grandkid lugging your records around. Still, as much of an effort and love you have put in, I highly doubt you would put it as the top achievement of your life. Your kids and grandkids would probably come higher on that list. Your record collection is surely impressive, but remember it is only a record collection. Pieces of plastic in paper, not much more than that. Life should not be about what, it should be about who. Enjoy your grandkids. You know they are nutz with their cellphone addiction, anyway. |
millercarbon, Do yourself a favor. Do not go into PR business. You managed to raise attention to Better Records and, probably, created some traffic for that website. Shortly afterwards, you crushed it all by implying you somehow had access to check if my purchasing history was correct. Unless you hacked into my e-mail account and saw confirmation e-mail, you are pointing towards Better Records as being your source of verification. Put aside bizarre urge to do something like that on your part, but no customer would want to deal with the business anyone could call and check on purchases, names, e-mails, etc. I sincerely hope it was just a moment of fantasy in your life and not the actual event. However, unless you can explain how, I am not even asking why, you checked what and if I had purchased and other details you presented, there will be a big suspicious stain about Better Records. If they had nothing to do with this bizarre development, you may want to clear their name. There are potential customers reading this and some will take this as a warning. If Better Records did not do anything wrong, it would be unfair to leave the stain next to its name. |
"I think that GK is out there somewhere having a belly laugh ." At least, geoffkait did not snoop on me. It may seem innocent, but it is seriously concerning if someone from an audio forum can go checking your purchases. Not to start with, hopefully silly, motifs behind such an activity. I am just hoping it is yet another one of millercarbon's fabricated stories of importance. |
tomic601, I have never seen a mint copy of Some Girls. Every copy I have seen has been played ad nauseam. Including mine. Having said that, how is the actual recording on a good sample? In my mind, and experience with overused records, it always sounds like, well, overused record that needs replacement. |
millercarbon, My stories always check out Boy, would I have surprising stories for you. You would happily make them your own and then some. More of a concern is how you were able to check my story about buying it beyond what I wrote here. I will give it benefit of the doubt, with a capital Doubt, that none of my information has been shared by better-records.com. Still, it is very concerning if you could have, in any way, checked the details of my purchase. In fact, it would border with criminal activity. I will report about the record the way I will hear it. If it is great, you will read it. If it is less so, you will read it. The benefit of my report should be that I have no vested interest in promoting Better Records. I had not heard of it before this thread. I have no love and admiration for it, nor do I have any reason to be against it. Prices are steep, but nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head. |
"When Paganini is ready to be recorded I will happily pay $600 for any reasonably good pressing." Let her know so you can be the first to know, she has connections... Maria Elena Paganini | Facebook |
I bought The Rolling Stones Emotional Rescue. I was considering Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here, too, but it says it has pops and clicks so it defeats the purpose, I think. Had it been without it, I would have bought that one, too. I am very familiar with Emotional Rescue, I already have two different ones from different countries and neither is from the U.S.A. so it comes in handy that better-records.com had it available. CD is, actually, not that great (whatever it was, the first German release on CD). Despite arguments about The Rolling Stones recordings quality, I am wondering about comparison with those records that I have, not with some better recordings. I did not buy it to indulge in it, I doubt I will listen to it much after the trial. I bought it out of curiosity. EDIT: If it is really that great, I will copy it into digital and abandon the CD rip. |
