I love my Oppo BD 105 Blu-ray player!
I have both my subs connected to it and use the Oppo's built in DSP to control them
I have a portable hard drive connected to it to access 100's of songs Oh and l use it to watch moves on my 5.1 system, play CD's & SACD I have it connected (spdif) to my external DAC (Exogal Comet Plus) for better sound quality
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I agree that an external DAC + transport is a good, cost-effective option. I'm using a Cambridge Audio CXC-V2 with a Mytek and it sounds quite good. The Cambridge Audio CXC seems very well built and (reportedly) has good customer service/warranty.
As another poster wrote, it might be best to avoid used players. Repairs are costly and parts are limited to sometimes non-existent (unlike turntables, for example).
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GeorgeHiFi a while ago we had several examples of the actual CD ripped VS streaming of the same titles one off the top of my head Dennis Drakes remaster of Ella Fitzgerald Clap Hands probably according to many that know about it the best sounding of any other reissue ever done ,
The streaming issues available weren’t this one that’s for sure. As for appreciating a more realistic human pitch and timbre I was disappointed with the Holo Audio May KTE dac that no mater what , cable chances even another system a lot better then my couldn’t produce human timbre the other dac could perhaps the May being a R2R has something to do with it the other being a FPGA topology, maybe ,..
I remember that first track we used in the comparison, a random selection of a CD sampler, ,,..I’m not a fan of samplers anyway it was a ripped DALI Volume 5 Title Thirty Five Years the track by Caroline Henderson , Be Here Now ,..This is an exceptionally well done recording,.her pitch and timbre are absolutely stunning with the other dac ,
There are many other examples I have access to thousands of CDs and I get streaming however it really starts with a great recording. |
+3 (or 4, 5, 6, I lost track) on the Audiolab 6000CDT plus a DAC.
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Or, just get a Rega top loader and be done with it. I've had many players and transports, Disk trays, slot loader, most had issues. I have settled on a modded Rega Planet 2000, very happy with it and no issues...Solidly built and pretty good sound ( I love the Rega sound signature). Just my opinion which means nada...
Cheers |
(-1) on the Audiolab: Stay away from the Audiolab transport, great sound when it worked, but I had severe issues with the slot loader...Free advice..
Cheers |
Try an external DAC with Ultra Analog D20400 or D20400A chip with PLL clocking. Some of these DACs can be expensive and also very rare. There are several models available from Sonic Frontiers (SFD1 and SFD2), Audio Research (DAC1, DAC1-20, DAC2), and Parasound (D/AC 2000) for modest pricing.
UA D20400 is probably the best R2R DAC ever made even better than Burr Brown PCM63 or PCM1704 in some areas. If you do a search, you will see some of the best DACs from top manufacturers used one of the three DAC chips. As an analog fan, you will immediately notice the similarities. |
Consider a Rega CD player....they can be purchased for a decent price and should be reliable. |
Project rs2 transport top loader wired i2s (hdmi) into project rs2 dac
Made me list my arcam cds50.... Chord qutest
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ghdprentice, +1
Oh, yeah, NAK deck. Still have my CR-1A, which was down the line, but WOW did that deck destroy the other purportedly great competitors! At times I think I should pull it out and experiment with recording CDs on cassette again. I find it hard to justify the time involved to do so. I already know that I can’t get superior sound from it. Years of mix tapes making couldn’t outperform the straight CD sound. Close, but not quite.
elliotbnewcombjr,
You keep going cheap, so you are not close to higher end sound. You’re not getting close to what is attainable from CD. On the spectrum of performance you keep wasting your money playing on the low end. If that’s your goal, fine. But don’t think you’re really getting somewhere. At least in regard to your source, you’re not doing HiFi, but MidFi.
You shared this:99.9999 copper speaker wires and interconnects, locking rca connectors, mx110z tube tuner/preamp overhaul by Audio Classics; cayin a88t bias by VAS; 16 ohm L-Pads replacing 8 ohm pots; and finally a I bought a sound meter to balance/refine the speaker’s L-Pads (it ain’t easy) for the best sound ever.
Ok, fine. Won't get you supreme CD sound when your source is so compromised. All those changes may be efficacious, but don't fool yourself that you're close to what can be done with digital.
Are you trying to be cheap about this because you have no money for it, or are you thinking you’re smarter than everyone else and will get supreme sound for a dime? If it’s the first, no issues and have fun flipping gear! You realize you have limited resources and are having fun with it. If I were constrained thus I would do the same. However, if it’s the second, you are fooling yourself and would be an example of my principle; the greatest impediment to advancing an audio system is the audiophile.
Do you have any idea of what it takes to get into better digital sound? I owned that Denon 2910 at some point in my history of digital. Several people politely have tried to tell you that you should add a DAC. Translated that means you are using MidFi gear and need to completely change your approach, i.e. PUT MORE MONEY INTO IT! Those old players and changers would be awful transports relatively, but at least getting an outboard DAC with them would help. My transport is a Musical Fidelity that I got for $700 and it gets paired with DACs costing thousands. I ran comparisons to CDPs up to $10K. I suspect that if you are using sub-$100 components, you are using stock cables. Oh, man, you are slaughtering the sound, just ruining it with your methods. If you have the means to do better and are being "thrifty", I will be blunt. Keep it up and you will have excluded yourself from the upper end of the spectrum permanently. :(
You are a long away from excellent CD sound. Unless someone tells you candidly, I suspect you won’t believe it. You likely won’t believe me, even though I have been an audiophile using the discs for 30+ years and reviewing, comparing first CDPs and then transports and DACs for 14 years, building systems from about $10K to $100K. Perhaps someone brainwashed you into thinking you’re getting all that with cheap gear and digital. Not even close; you’re pretty far down the performance spectrum. Make no serious move and you will spend the rest of your life hearing mediocre digital sound.
Perhaps I missed it somewhere in discussion; if you are budgetarily constrained, no problem. Work in your zone of system building capability. But, if you could do better, stop wasting your life and money on bargain bin components! I used to be like that, thinking I could cobble together an awesome result that way. It was ridiculous, and shop owners from whom I scavenged bargains knew it. But, it’s almost impossible to convince someone who thinks they’re genius by being thrifty.
As for our hard core objectivists who may wish to argue with me. Don’t bother; I do not care about your opinion on this matter. :)
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@douglas_schroeder,
+ 10! An excellent and honest/bluntly put assessment. You rarely if ever see forum threads where people try to take a very cheap route assembling an analogue turntable system. They know it’s a futile effort and poor quality sound is the outcome.
For some unfounded (Misguided?) reason there’s a belief amongst some that digital is simply abouts ’bits, 0 and 1', as though nothing else impacts what is heard. Any old CD player will get the job done mindset. . This superficial and shallow attitude overlooks the numerous factors that distinguish genuine high quality digital components from junk.
The competency of manufacturing, engineering, design, part quality and implementation of transports/streamers/DAC are critical aspects to address if one truly wants to obtain high levels of digital sound quality. Same approach and commitment as analogue requires, otherwise you are just aimlessly wandering with no pathway toward success.
Charles |
That Douglas_Schroeder guy is correct. I(very) recently upgraded my Bryston cdp-3 to a T+A Tubed player. The difference is quite amazing. Although the Bryston is a fine player, it simply is not in the same league. I was looking at the Project transport with a seperate DAC or the Ayon CD-10, when I saw the T+A on the TMR site.By far, this is the best of the players I have owned. |
Use a DAC.
In these two players I just bought, I have chosen which dual sets of built-in DAC's I want to try. That was the selection process.
Denon: Burr Brown
Integra: Wolfson
And, I want to hear the 'House Sound' of Denon or Integra in those respective years, That may be perceptibly different, and then, if so, Preferred?
i.e. "It's what you do with/to the bits that makes a difference".
"To say the difference is Quite Small is an Understatement"
"Famous Vintage DACs are Overhyped". "Everything is Overhyped".
"Demanding Audiophiles are Never Satisfied".
..................................
New/Used. I much prefer getting/keeping older stuff going. For everyone who thinks new is better, someone else swears by used.
Denon 2910 arrived, took the cover off, looks 1 minute old, not a speck of dust, everything pristine except the dent in the top which I could care less about. Drawer movement smooth.
Recognized SACD or CD automatically.
Immediately sounded Bass Heavy, I read the manual, prior owner had 'Bass Enhancer' ON. Found out how, did a factory reset, that problem gone,
1st impression, grabbed Tierney Sutton SACD out of the Sony, 2 favorite tracks, terrific, had to go to airport to pick up Donna, so no real listening or comparison yet. Has 'Pure Direct' like the Oppos, others, cuts out the video circuitry and display circuitry.
Takes a long time to load/read the index, then the fastest individual track selection ever, and no need to press play, just press 6, bingo it starts playing, I absolutely love that.
Listening for real commences this evening.
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I am not sure why this is so common.
The OP asks about CD players and says that the ones he has tried are Onkyo changers and a used Denon that cost him $52 on Ebay.
One of the responses he gets is to look at a Bricasti M1 DAC at $9,000 and another suggests a $4,000 PS Audio transport.
What did Marie Antoinette say, “Let them eat cake”? |
High value/performance for CD : Jay’s Audio. I was in the same boat as you last year. Two versions, transport only and one with built in DAC. I was skeptical about buying direct from a Chinese co. But, my experience was excellent. Jays uses a single distributor I think out of Singapore. Communication was excellent- better than most dealers in the US! I got the transport and run it into my old msb Dac - couldn’t be happier. That was an upgrade from my also very nice for the day Cary Audio CD player. Last year it was 2500/3000 w Dac. Good luck |
Never mention budget, but given recent purchases my next comment likely irrelevant … I decided to splurge and upgrade to my (hopefully) final CDP, and very happy with my Sony SA-KI Ruby (and I also use as DAC and stream from Bluesound Vault 2i) |
elliottbnewcombjr,
I understand; your comment, "New/Used. I much prefer getting/keeping older stuff going. For everyone who thinks new is better, someone else swears by used," clarifies it for me. Enjoy the hunt!
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Just keep an eye out for any cd player with a coax digital output...have four of them all purchased for less than $20 at local Goodwills. My latest is a brand new Sony DVP-NS90V CD/SACD single disc I found in Seattle for $7. Combined with a Topping E-30 which I believe retails new for $130 I get outstanding performance. I too enjoy physical audio and have a vast collection of CDs and vinyl.
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Streaming
Makes sense, the whole world, tempting, my friend did it for a few years, quite happily. Now: he is back to LP's and CDs.
At 73 years old, I know myself, it's not for me. I'm hands on.
I stream in my office, enough to find new artists, then I look for Vinyl, some New, often Used, Near Mint, Very Good+, have never been disappointed. If no vinyl, if highly desirable, a used CD, new CD if only new available,
5,000 CD's; 6500 LPs: discover/rediscover on system sounding better than ever.
I only do focused listening, never background except Pandora in the office.
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I got a great deal about 2 years ago on a close out of a new Luxman D-08. I’ve had many very good CD players over the years but nothing compares to this. The dac in this player is better than any stand alone dac I have ever heard. When this player was first released it sold for $20,000 so I guess it should have a state of the art dac. CD’s now sound better than I could have ever imagined. |
DENON DVD-2910 Who warned me against used? Denon 2910 was ok for a day, got finicky, now won't read any disc, just like the Oppo 83 I had to return. Seems Laser is weak. Either a full refund (dispute with eBay will be needed), or, seller gives me a credit and I buy a new laser. https://www.ebay.com/itm/360432530832?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item53eb73f590:g:3HkAAOSwKrhVbYBu&...I have the tools and skill to change it, and do like keeping things going, AND it did sound good, soooo, the saga continues. |
Integra CDC-3.4 I ordered:
Bserplus.com
Now, after finding/buying/Paypal payment pending then processing, bserplus acknowledging order and payment:
Norton says DANGEROUS SITE, Do Not go there.
I reported it to PayPal. |
elliottbnewcombjr
Very cool that you can work on CD players. Which Brand(s) are your specialty?
Happy Listening!
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jafant I can only work on the mechanical: parts, belts, brakes, tension adjustments, renew lubrication that has turned to glue ... Not the electronics. I don't even know how to use my ancient Multi-Meter. I overhaul my Reel to Reel Tape Players, that sort of thing. I used parts from two non-working Mitsubishi LT-5V Vertical Turntables to have 1 winner and some spare parts. Both are in my office system shown here https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9511This Denon: I downloaded the service manual: I am confident I can disassemble, disconnect the ribbon cable and switch the laser assembly and get it back together. New lasers are also available for the Oppo 83, but the disassembly looked too complicated, so I returned it. This one, if I return it, it remains dead which is a shame. A smart man would return this Denon. Part of me wants to 'beat the system' or still 'win my bet' I suppose, and keep a good thing going. |
Like your style Elliott....I rescued a Technics SL-1900 bought on the cheap and it is a joy to play.
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Seller gave me the credit and I just ordered the Denon 2910 laser, it's in Florida, be here by the 9th, possibly sooner. Wish me luck!
Meanwhile my office computer fan went bad. Luckily I have identical computer in HT (idle since TV's got smart), switched fan, found a replacement fan, be here by the 9th
What else is on the verge? |
Integra Update:
I told Paypal Norton said beserve.com is Dangerous, blocked the site
Paypal gave me a full refund.
Meanwhile, bserplus info to Paypal: shipped via USPS yesterday with a tracking number.
USPS says 'out for delivery' last evening from Avenel, NJ not far from me.
A Halloween Mystery. |
elliottbnewcombjr
Yes! here is to Good Luck in the repair process.
Happy Listening!
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jafant,
Thanks,
I scared myself yesterday watching videos about Denon DVD/SACD/CD laser adjustment/replacement.
Meanwhile, the Integra CD Changer is on a local USPS truck, due here by 8pm today. |
henry53, mksun, billzame, and sandthemall mentioned CD players/transports made by Audiolab in this thread. On another thread I mentioned that I replaced some audio equipment this last summer, and when I did that I purchased four Audiolab components: - Audiolab 6000A (a great amp/preamp)
- Audiolab 6000CDT (a fantastic CD transport)
- 2 Audiolab DC blocks - one for the amp and another one for the transport.
All components have made substantial improvements in my stereo setup. I also mentioned in another thread that I purchased the Cambridge Audio
DacMagic 200M. This is one of the greatest pieces of equipment that I've ever owned, so if you're like me (with limited funds), it's worth your time to check this stuff out. |
Used pioneer elite dv-79avi.
Made in 06 or 08,
plays as new, one of the best ever had.
lucky I found a silver one! |
Update:
Denon New Laser shipped, be here next tuesday.
............................................
Integra: Fraud, glad Paypal gave me my money back.
The tracking number and tracking updates show your town and zip code, but not your name or street address.
String of updates: DHL to USPS to .. final update says: delivered 2:29pm front door.
Nothing there, our postman happened to be next door, he doesn’t have it and never saw a package for me at the PO.
The package was delivered to a house 3 minutes away, I knocked on the door, that tracking # was for a small package of socks she ordered from a different company. Met some nice new neighbors, he’s a plumber, I have a project for the spring, hooray.
It seems if a fraudster can scam a tracking number of anything to be delivered in your zip code, then they can claim it was delivered. Normally people could not find out what and where the wrong tracking number was for, thus never be able to prove anything.
They wrote me saying their system has a problem, please withdraw my action via PayPal. Instead I told them what I knew and asked them where my item is.
..................................
Found and bought an Integra CDC-3.4 made in May 2019. |
I still have a Denon DVD 900 that just won’t die. I resolved my issue with a purchase of a new preamp with digital inputs. It has a very high quality DAC. Then added a Node2i. I stream everything now. My CD collection is somewhere in the house. |
Contact me if you’d like to trial listen to an Acoustics Research CD1. Great condition, just thru cleaning and belt change at AR. |
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I found this funny "
SonyWhen it comes to CD players Sony is on a roll, a host of excellent players have been emanating from the company in the last few years especially in the lower reaches of the market, and interestingly the company has decided to have many of their mid range models different from market to market in a bid to make their product more acceptable locally. There has noticeably been a range of players intended for the UK market that have been designed to deliver the dry and flat sound that the English love so much (apparently the breed only listens to chamber music and the Smiths or equivalent)." |
I earlier posted I thought I had read that PS Audio has extended the sale price on the PST till the end of the year. I believe now I was wrong on this. I happened to look at PS Audio site on this item, but sale is no longer shown. In looking at the forum where I had thought I had seen the extension, it appears I misread and the end of year posting referred to trial period. My apologies to any who may have been affected by my incorrect info. |
elliottbnewcombjr
Keep me posted on the Integra CDC 3.4 - I did not know that this company was still around?
Happy Listening!
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Here is the post I promised to share comparing CD spinning to a streamer/server digital front end.
I purchased the very good PS Audio PWT transport two weeks ago because I have been hearing folks say CD spinning sounds much better than a server. So I have a very nice Hijiri Nogami power cord on the transport and the top of the line Hijiri Million Dollar digital cable. I have been comparing the sound to my Innuos Zenith 3 server. I had to find out for myself if CD spinning is still that far ahead.
The answer is not universal or easy. It depends and that is now clear to me. My Innuos Zenith is fed by a Network Acoustics ENO filter, two ENO ethernet cables, an English Electric Switch 8 powered by a top notch LPS and a modem/router powered my a top notch LPS. I have a Tchernov Reference USB cable between the Mojo Evo and Zenith.
I have been conducting listening tests carefully listening for differences and preferences. Here is my conclusion based on my system as outlined above.
- CD spinning sounds very, very similar to CDs ripped and played off the Zenith. Very close. I would give a slight edge in dimension to the CD spinner. Very slight.
- Streaming Qobuz from Roon did not sound as good as the CD spinner. It depended on the Qobuz file quality however. Non - HD Qobuz files sounded the worst. HD Qobuz sounded much better, but still about 85% as good as the CD spinner. It sounded flat compared to CD spinning.
- Using the new Innuos Sense instead of Roon makes things much closer to CD spinning. Roon does not sound as good as the new Sense software from Innuos. Frankly, Sense is much better sounding at the date of this posting. So streaming HD Qobuz files through Innuos Sense is damn close to the CD spinner. Within 5%.
Innuos Sense is coming out with an update next week that is said to sound some 10% better according to beta testers. This will put HD Qobuz files and CD rips on par with CD spinning in my rig. What’s important to remember here is everything matters when it comes to streaming and playing files off a server. Everything matters! The music playback software used is also critical. Roon is no match to Sense sonically as of today. However, Roon continues to improve their sound quality as does Sense. This space is moving fast folks with sound quality improvements coming monthly! Network Acoustics has some new ethernet filters and switches coming that will improve streaming sound quality even more.
No easy or general answer to the question of does CD spinning or streaming/server sound better. Cannot make any broad brush conclusions as it just depends. Too many options, products and variables are at play. In addition, the streaming/server improvements are coming at a very fast rate. Innuos Sense is just one example. Going from Roon to Sense has been a sonic revelation for many of us. Both continue to improve sound quality and that is great news for sure.
Depending on how your system’s digital front end is set up CD spinning may sound much better than a server or it may not. The only way to know is to compare for yourself in your own system. Just FAR too many variables at play for the one simple answer.
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I found an interesting combination. Looking for a decent reasonably priced CD/DAC player with a COAX S/PDIF in, that I could us as an upgrade in sound with my old Denon 5 disc player, I picked up a good buy on a used Cambridge Audio Asur 840C. Many reviews gave it high marks for being musical and organic while still presenting a good amount of clarity and detail - what I was looking for.
My goal was to have a good sounding single play CDP for serious listening, while keeping the convince of a 5 disc changer for late night, more casual listening. As I expected - the Cambridge, by its self, was a sonic step above the old Denon DCM 440, 5 disc player but what I didn't expect was how good the Denon would sound running from its Dig. Out into the 840's DAC. Surprising, to say the least - the sound of the Denon/Cambridge combo (wife agrees) is better than either by itself and is, in fact, Very Good. A win-win - the convince of a 5 disc changer for long nights of listening and great sound.....Jim.
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@grannyring,
Thanks for sharing your listening comparison experience. I would not have expected a different outcome from you. My contention has been for some time that either a digital server or CD transport can provide excellent sound quality in one’s audio system. Multiple factors can affect the results one way or the other. Most important I believe is the quality of the chosen hardware/component.
I thought you would happy with a used P.S. Audio PWT as it is a terrific CD transport that’s stood the test of time. Exceptional value purchased used. As I’ve mentioned previously mine is still serving me very well after 9 years of ownership. The Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2 transport has really captured my attention and I should receive it sometime this week.
I’m needless to say very curious as to how it will perform compared to the trusty and reliable PWT. @grannyring you have proven to yourself happiness can be achieved with either front end approach.
Charles |
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Thanks Charles. Please let us know what your findings are with the Pro-ject. I am most interested. |
My Sony to Beat: DVP-NC80V (from crutchfield’s old info) One converter for SACD and a separate One for CD? - optical and coaxial digital outputs for Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM
- 1 set of A/V outputs (composite, S-video, and 480i/480p component video)
- plays DVD-Video, DVD-R & DVD-RW, DVD+R & DVD+RW, and Video CD
- plays SACD, CD, audio CD-R & CD-RW, and MP3 CDs
- plays picture CD (JPEG)
- multibrand remote control (operates most TVs)
- 108MHz/12-bit video digital-to-audio converter
- 192kHz/24-bit audio D/A converter
I read that players do NOT output SACD data from their digital outs, only redbook CD out. not sure if that has changed |
elliottbnewcombjr
Thank You for the links. Good to read that Integra/Onkyo are still in the game. Upon receiving your CDC 3.4 check the back panel to determine if made in Japan?
Happy Listening!
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elliottbnewcombjr
2nd- Sony made a few spinners (not ES badge) that flew under the radar for performance and value. Model DVP-NC80v is such a player.
Happy Listening!
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jafant
I can see the label on the listing, made may 2019, Malaysia.
denon laser delayed till tomorrow late
Integra moved up to tomorrow late. |
elliottbnewcombjr
Malaysia is not too bad a manufacturer. Anything (place) is better than china.
Happy Listening!
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I have to disagree,
they move these factories around overnight, it's up to the brand to monitor quality control, reputation, and warranty.
My Cayin A88T is MIC, and my Sony Cameras are MIC. Excellent build quality.
Sony rx100m1 back in late 2012, initial batch MIJ had dust on sensor problems, they moved production to China, problem disappeared.
The Integra CDC-3.4 has a 3 year P&L warranty, no matter where it is made. That means mine is still under warranty. (not transferrable). I will ask seller, original purchaser, to keep the receipt, help me if problem occurs before 3 yrs. |
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