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Better CD Sound: The Search

Went Big into Vinyl last 2 years, then re-discovered my many CD’s, mixing it up plenty now.

I continue to try and find a CD Player with better sound than my existing cheapo Sony Changer that surprisingly keeps on keeping on.

I am hoping recent upgrades to the system will more readily reveal differences:

99.9999 copper speaker wires and interconnects, locking rca connectors, mx110z tube tuner/preamp overhaul by Audio Classics; cayin a88t bias by VAS; 16 ohm L-Pads replacing 8 ohm pots; and finally a I bought a sound meter to balance/refine the speaker’s L-Pads (it ain’t easy) for the best sound ever.
.....................................

CD Quest So Far:

I want dual processors, go used to keep cost down, even consider older vintage.

1. my Onkyo Grand Integra (DX-7500 I think), fixed the damn drawer opening problem several times.

2. This cheapo Sony Changer given to me, eh, use if for parties, why not.
surprisingly sounded as good as the Onkyo to me and friends, gave the annoying Onkyo away.

3. tried used Oppo 83 Video Player for it’s audio

Laser was weak, ’no disc’, found it is a common problem with heavily used lasers. Back it went

4. lightly used Oppo 105. Everything worked, but didn’t sound better than the Sony. Oppo is big, single, expensive, not sellers fault, so I sold it myself rather than return it, lost $205. on that attempt.

5. ’new original stock’ KLH (made by?). played a few discs, then the discs started mis-tracking on discs I know are ok.

found small black bits clinging to the surface in the area of the problems (cds play from the inside out, just guess how far out). Turned out, the belt(s) were dried out, thus when put into motion after years of storage (where?), they shed bits of rubber. Back it went, full refund including return shipping. never compared it to the Sony’s sound

6. Resolved: if vintage, make sure belts are available, get a low price, open it up when it arrives, watch it move ... use, replace belts, return as last choice.

7. Just Bought Two, in transit, One Single; One 6 Disc Changer. (both with oem remotes and power cords, most for sale are missing).

a. Denon DVD-2910 Single Player (big dent on the top. $52. del’d, eBay) (crutchfield keeps old info on their site)
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-6TIPMQKBMUZ/p_033DV2910B/Denon-DVD-2910-Black.html

b. Onkyo Integra CDC-3.4 six disc changer (open box/demo) ($51. delivered) (bserplus.com)
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_164CDC34/Integra-CDC-3-4.html

c. a bag of belts. because I will be keeping something, and I have other old stuff with belts
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334135204014

d. spare rare OEM remote for Integra 3.4, eBay

Keeping My Ears Crossed!

elliottbnewcombjr

Showing 18 responses by charles1dad

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 

@fleschler ,

I will be very surprised if you are not thrilled with the new P.S.Audio CD/SACD transport and do not find it an improvement of your trusty older CD player.

Charles

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 

If the new P.S.Audio CD/SACD is a sonic improvement of the PWT that's quite an accomplishment. The last generation PWT (I owned over 9 years) is really a good transport.  Not sure  I understand the Guttenberg Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2T comments. 

He's right about the sound quality which in my opinion is simply splendid.  It is very straightforward and simple to use. In regard to built quality it is definitely compact but very dense feeling with solid/rigid aluminum construction.  Very well done. So curious as to what Guttenberg is specifically referring to. It's an excellent choice for someone interested in very upper tier well executed  transport playback sound quality of Redbook CD.

Charles 

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 

@tvad,

I do not doubt your impressions.  You have a much later and further up the model line unit compared to mine (Thus my caveat in my prior post). My unit was so early generation it was referred to as TEAC-Esoteric. So I don't believe that it's an apple to aplle comparison. 

Charles 

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 

@tvad, 

Wow, pretty early model purchased new circa late 1990s-2000. Used it with the Timbre Technology  TT-1DAC. It was good and rock solid reliable.  I found it analytical relative to the PWT which had more fluidity naturaalness in presentation. Certainly subsequent generation Esoteric transports could have gotten better. 

Charles 

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 

Hi @sns,

I do understand the convenience of ripping CDs and streaming. A friend of mine has ripped his CDs to file storage and loves controlling recordings via his IPad. Conversely I have my CDs arranged alphabetically in racks within my listening room. I have no issues with getting up and selecting CDs as desired. No doubt either choice can be gratifying.

It seems I think a bit more highly of the PWT than you 😊. I preferred it to an earlier generation Esoteric VDRS transport I had used previously. But yes the Pro-Ject is special.

Charles

 

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 

Hi @ dsper,

I want to be very clear. I used the PWT in my audio system for 9 years and enjoyed every moment of it. In my humble opinion it is an excellent CD transport. I could keep it another 9 years and continue to be happy with it. The Pro-Ject CD transport does not blow away the PWT nor does it make it sound broken. I just want  to clear the air on that. The PWT has been a very highly regarded transport for a long time and justifiably so.

The Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2 is better sounding than the PWT is this regard. It is a higher resolution component. Clarity, transparency and openness are improved. There is more air and a capturing of venue ambience. Both macro and micro dynamics are an improvement. The sense/awareness of musical pace and flow are improved. It can really get your toes to tapping and your head nodding in beat to the music.

The Pro-Ject is more fluid with an ease and effortless vibe. Very similar to what a really high-quality analog base system can do (And not every analog front end system achieves this coveted characteristic). The PWT did this well and is natural and engages you emotionally. The Pro-Ject takes this to yet a higher level. It is thoroughly organic and superb with tone and timbre of instruments and vocals.

The PWT is in absolute terms "very " good. The Pro-Ject is superb. That’s the essential distinction for me. Each one of us is different and we have to make our own specific/individual assessment. I would be surprised if you found the move to the Pro-Ject merely sidewards.

Charles

 

 

 

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 

Bill(@grannyring),

I purchased my Pro-Ject from Underwood Hifi and no returns unless a faulty/malfunctioning unit. I took my chances due to

1 universally positive comments from a multitude of credible and trusted Audiogon members.

2 Very competitive pricing and Underwood has a very good long term record as an audio retailer. So glad I purchased the Pro-Ject RS2 Transport. It’s truly marvelous sounding .@in_shore description is on the money! Bill I know that you understand the significant impact the CD transport has on sound quality.

Charles

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@grannyring,
I bought mine (Silver color) from Underwood Hifi/Walter. It was a very smooth and professional experience with him. He has 3 units left(Black only). Then no more he said until February 2022.
Charles
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@tvad, 
My DAC is the Yamamoto YDA -01a , High Fidelity CT-1 Ultimate digital cable (RCA) coaxial input. I added Duelund CAST Copper foil output coupling capacitors about 7 years ago(Thanks for that recommendation back then Bill (@grannyring). I still appreciate that to this day👍.

@grannyring,
A keeper for certain . Straight out of the shipping box (BTW very well double boxed with dense high quality foam inserts) into the audio system.  You could hear it steadily  improve within the first 30-45 minutes. Bill, you would love and really appreciate the Pro-Ject. 

Supremely organic with such ease and liquidity.  The tonality of  acoustic instruments is on the bullseye. 
Charles 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@in_shore ,
I received my Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2 transport today. I'll get right to the point,  how could you return this unit for sake of mere convenience?  It's simply stunning! Utterly musical, completely emotionally engaging music reproduction and simultaneously 'highly ' resolved and nuanced. 

It was comments from you, @wig, @bigkidz and others that caught my attention. As good (Very good) as my trusted P.S. Audio PWT sounds, the RS2 is a class above. Simply thoroughly organic, dynamic and absolutely involving.  The crew at Stream Unlimited who developed this new CD Pro-8 CD drive are truly experts. Redbook CD is fantastic with high quality transport and DAC.

With the latest CD drive mechanism I expected heighten resolution/detail. The fluidity, superb harmonics and tonality, musical flow and organic character are the big surprise. One last observation,  the presentation is exceptionally three-dimensional and very open. In_shore how could you?😊
Charles 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@grannyring,
Thanks for sharing your listening comparison experience. I would not have expected a different outcome from you. My contention has been for some time that either a digital server or CD transport can provide excellent sound quality in one’s audio system. Multiple factors can affect the results one way or the other. Most important I believe is the quality of the chosen hardware/component.

I thought you would happy with a used P.S. Audio PWT as it is a terrific CD transport that’s stood the test of time. Exceptional value purchased used. As I’ve mentioned previously mine is still serving me very well after 9 years of ownership. The Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2 transport has really captured my attention and I should receive it sometime this week.

I’m needless to say very curious as to how it will perform compared to the trusty and reliable PWT. @grannyring you have proven to yourself happiness can be achieved with either front end approach.
Charles
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@douglas_schroeder,
+ 10! An excellent and honest/bluntly put assessment. You rarely if ever see forum threads where people try to take a very cheap route assembling an analogue turntable system. They know it’s a futile effort and poor quality sound is the outcome.

For some unfounded (Misguided?) reason there’s a belief amongst some that digital is simply abouts ’bits, 0 and 1', as though  nothing else impacts what is heard. Any old CD player will get the job done mindset. . This superficial and shallow attitude overlooks the numerous factors that distinguish genuine high quality digital components from junk.

The competency of manufacturing, engineering, design, part quality and implementation of transports/streamers/DAC are critical aspects to address if one truly wants to obtain high levels of digital sound quality. Same approach and commitment as analogue requires, otherwise you are just aimlessly wandering with no pathway toward success.
Charles
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@grannyring, 

"However, I wonder if they offer that same natural fluidity? Perhaps. I don’t know."  

Bill that's exactly why I've held on to my early generation PWT so contently the past 9 years,  natural and realistic music presentation. I've been led to believe that the new  Pro-Ject takes this coveted quality a step or two further.  We shall see.
Charles 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
Bill (@grannyring)

"If the transport sounds significantly better to my ears, then I will use it for critical listening sessions. The other 80% of the time I will continue to stream and listen to all kinds of wonderful new artists and music. If the transport sounds about the same or worse, then I will sell it. I just have to try for myself again.  Too darn curious"

Common sense idea/plan from you (As usual).  I see absolutely no reason why the two digital approaches can't easily coexist if one desires that option.  On many audio  interest threads if inevitably seems to devolve to 'my way is better than yours'. I have zero doubt that splendid sound quality is available with either format. 

I utterly enjoy having a substantial CD collection and listening to them often and with immense pleasure. Thus the Pro-Ject RS2 Transport  holds much appeal. Yet I can thoroughly understand another listener's attraction and preference to stream their music. No need to be a "Hatfield versus McCoy" scenario . Bill glad you were able to find a used PWT.  Very fine transport in my opinion. 
Charles 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@ejr1953,
You are right in regard to how the P.S. Audio PWT functions. I've had mine for 9 years and it has been reliable and has excellent sound quality. I saw the special OCT pricing for the current SACD/CD model. Tempting, but I have no interest in SACD just Redbook CD.

I really like the idea/concept of the Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2 transport. single minded focus and dedicated to CD only function at a very high level. Reports and positive owner feedback certainly seem to confirmed this is successfully achieved. An  upper tier no nonsense CD transport. I'm sure the new P.S.Audio transport is terrific as well.
Charles
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@in_shore, 
Did you find the difference between the wall wart and the optional linear power supply subtle (Yet noticeable) or significant?
Charles 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@in_shore,
Okay, the convenience factor, I understand.  It was your comments (And those of other there)  on another thread that got my attention regarding the Pro-Ject RS2 transport.   When you wrote it sounds better than your 432 EVO Reference music server playing files or streaming. That is quite a compliment. 

I'm looking forward to hearing the highly praised RS2 transport in my audio system very soon. I believe many people underestimate the importance and contribution a quality CD transport (With over emphasis on the DAC). 
Charles 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
@in_shore

"returned the Project Audio RS2 back to the distributor I had it long enough for a good long listen"

Your seem very impressed with it, what caused you to return it?
Charles
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