I see that many (though not all) Audiogon members judge drummers by the same yardstick the general public does: technical "chops". There are other considerations, ya know. In the Big Band era, one drummer was chosen by band leaders above all others for his ability to make the band swing harder than any other: Dave Tough. You have probably never heard of him, as he couldn’t solo like the other guys, and his technique was not very well developed. But the other band members loved playing with him because he made them sound better. His playing resulted in the band making better music! That's what makes one drummer "better" than another. Here is a story repeated by the hippest drummers: The legendary guitarist Danny Gatton was doing a gig with his new drummer, the drummer’s first with Danny. After a few songs, Danny said to the drummer: "You know all that fancy stuff you’re playing? Don’t". Many of the best musicians in the world think a lot of drummers "overplay". One of the most in demand studio drummers for decades has been Jim Keltner, of whom you may have heard (Bob Dylan, George Harrison, John Hiatt, Bill Frisell, Ry Cooder---Ry schedules his recordings around Jim’s availability, refusing to record without him). In discussing his playing, Jim said he wishes he played more like Roger Hawkins. Heard of him? He was the drummer of the Fame Studios house band, heard on all the Jerry Wexler-produced records for Atlantic Records (Aretha Franklin, Wilson Pickett, Solomon Burke). Roger’s playing creates the deepest "pocket" I have ever heard, creating a killer "groove". His playing is not "flashy", does not draw attention to itself. But like the playing of Dave Tough, it creates great music. It’s all about the music, right? Jim has also professed his admiration for another drummer not mentioned here: Levon Helm of The Band, the most musical drummer I have ever heard. I have been asked "What do you mean musical?". If you have to ask! I was with my brother-in-law in his living room, listening to an internet radio station. The song "Beyond The Sea" by Bobby Darin came on. When the short drum "break" (played by Don Lamond) ended I was giddy with delight, expressing my love of it (it’s my all-time favorite drum break, too short to be considered a solo, though it actually is). The brother-in-law said "Really"? It didn’t sound that hard". I explained to him that what made it so cool was not the difficulty in executing it, but the difficulty in coming up with it. The part just sounds so f*cking cool! |
.....and the really neat thing about Kenny is he could play it all....classical, rock, jazz, country, pop, etc.. He holds a degree in classical music. Was Mellencamps long time drummer. Will never forget it.
|
Kenny Arinoff ( "the bald guy" ) referred to above. Saw him front row at a drum clinic. Never heard such force, power, yet with sublime delicacy. There were drummers in the audience, namely, Bun E. Carlos of Cheap Trick. Carlos' jaw was on the floor in awe.... Regards....
|
Just thought of another worth mention, Terry Bozio. |
Based on Blu-ray performances that I've recently seen, I really agree with the previous Vinnie Colaiuta comments. His drumming on Jeff Beck's performances have really caught my eyes & ears!
Additionally, I don't believe Lenny White has been mentioned. He puts down some very musical & impressive licks on Return to Forever: Returns - Live at Montreux [Blu-ray] (2009) with Chick Corea on keyboards, Al Di Meola on guitar & Stanley Clarke on bass. In fact the musicianship displayed by everyone on this DVD is more than impressive..... |
That bald guy who plays with all the greats.
I saw him with Melloncamp and on the Airplane reunion tour. |
just saw the "beware of mr. baker" documentary on netflix (ginger's quite a lovely fellow) and watched with interest his "drum battles" with the likes of elvin jones, max roach and art blakey. great a "rock" drummer as baker is/was, he's really not in the same league as the aforesaid three--they're speed, technique, etc. are astounding, while he sounds wild and unschooled in comparison. good film. |
just listened to lord sutch on mog (i vaguely remember him being sort of the wild man fischer of england in the 60s). it's remarkably terrible--i think it was intended as a parody by all but the singer, who's apparently a genuine loon. thanks for sharing... |
Loomis - now that I think of it, I remember a record called Lord Sutch and His Heavy Friends. I think Bonham and Page both played on it, but it was horrible and Bonham definitely came off as ponderous. So it's a matter of compatibility as we all know. That was one of the worst records ever made. |
chayro, you got to the essence of my point--playing on back of the beat without slowing down the heaviness is critical. charlie watts or al jackson (who did all the booker t/stax stuff) play behind the beat, but don't hold back the whole flow; bonham doesn't have the same touch to my ears, although i'm biased towards the hyper, driving drum sound like baker, keith moon, stewart copeland. |
Chayro,
I completely agree about Ramatam. I had the album because he was on it, but poor Mitch must have needed a paycheck pretty bad to join those scrubs. |
Loomis - I understand what you're saying about Bonham, but playing on the back of the beat without slowing down is the essence of the "heavy" sound. There's a distinction between playing on the back of the beat and dragging and it's hard to do the right way. Carmine Appice played that way on the Vanilla Fudge records, but not quite as extreme.
Bonham was the right drummer for Zep at that time. In another band, maybe it would have been different. I heard Mitch Mitchell in a band called Ramatam after Hendrix died and it sounded like shite. |
i must be the only person alive who doesn't like john bonham's drumming (no disrespect to the memory of the man himself)--he was always behind the beat and gave the songs a lumbering, rather than propulsive feel. i just saw a 2007 zep tv concert with bonham's son jason on drums and actually preferred it to the original edition (even though plant's vocal range was shot)--the songs had more swing and less bombast.
i do agree with charlie watts on ginger baker, tho--that maniac can play. |
I am a fan of Cream and Ginger Baker since the beginning, but that said, he does not belong in the same rare and exalted place as Mitch Mitchell, Tony Williams and several others in my own personal hierarchy. Inventive and different he is and was. Top of the heap technically or artistically, I don't agree. |
Philo,
I saw the Ginger Baker documentary, too, and it's clear that there's just something wrong with the guy. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I actually laughed when Ginger hit the interviewer with his cane at the end. They'd just spent several months together and seemed to have bonded (a bit), when Baker hauls off and whacks him. The poor guy just stands there bleeding and staring. It was awful and really not funny, but it was also just too bizarre for words.
OTOH, while Ginger Baker may be a pretty ugly human being, he can sure play the drums.
BTW, another name for this thread is Anton Fier of The Feelies and, later, The Golden Palominos. He was always providing interest and unexpected rhythmic flourishes for both of those bands. |
Here's Charlie Watts' opinion. (Rolling Stones drummer, for those who don't know)
"Yeah. I would say learn to read music and listen to other people other than John Bonham. Now youve got totally the wrong impression about what I just said I can see it in your face. [Leans forward and speaks carefully.] John Bonham is the best at being John Bonham and doing what he does. Or did unfortunately, hes dead. He was the best. There wasnt anyone better than John like that, and thank goodness weve got some records so that you can hear it. But there are a lot of other people.
Ginger Baker was a much better drummer than John Bonham, if you really want to know about drumming. Ginger Baker is the best drummer to emigrate out of England. Really, Ginger is. And the guy who Ginger idolized whatever the word was we all did was a guy called Phil Seaman. And Ginger learned everything off Phil. But Ginger can read, you know. Gingers not a foal. He can read music, he has wonderful chops, he has rudiments down. Having said all that, I dont. So I would say to anyone not only my offspring, but anyone thats what you should do, really. Otherwise, youre locked into doing what I do. Which is fine. It worked for me."
. |
Nicko McBrain of Maiden and of course Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater. . . both outstanding drummers. |
Dweller,
Aynsley Dunbar would surely be in my top ten. He is very inventive, and technically beyond reproach. Listen to him on Frank Zappa's great "The Grand Wazoo" and be wowed. |
I saw a show on TV a few months back that makes a convincing case for Ginger Baker. He certainly was one of the most offensive people I ever saw being interviewed.
What a nut case!
They mention that maybe he kept switching projects because he needed to keep moving creatively or maybe that his mental state did not allow him to stay in one group too long and his creative juices flowed more when he switched. |
How about Aynsley Dunbar?
He may not be a Rock god, but he's played with mucho people
since the early Sixties.
Should get some props for that... |
Danny Carey makes neil peart look and sound like Ringo. |
Erikminer, mentioned Billy Cobham. Man, can that man play! I remember swimming wind sprints with his beats in my head. That'll move ya! |
Drubin,
Dave Mattacks (Richard Thompson's usual drummer) is no slouch, either.
Marty |
I don't know about best, and he's played various musical genre's, but I've always appreciated Steve Gadd. |
Frank Beard zz top, drummer from the Babys |
I always get captured by Richard Coughlan of Caravan fame. |
I recently saw a couple of performances of the Richard Thompson Trio, his "folk-rock power trio." His drummer, Michael Jerome, who has been with him for quite a while, was truly remarkable. |
Tommy Aldridge has quite a resume. I believe he's listed in the uberlist post previously, however I must mention that I enjoyed his work on Pat Traver's Crash and Burn. Kudos to the engineer on that album as it is some of the cleanest recorded drumming I've heard on a rock album of that era. |
best New Wave drummer IMHO was Clem Burke.Pirre Moerlin of French Gong was awesome fusionm drummer.I liked Simon Phillips of Brit art rock fame.Not everybody is going to bea Moon or Bonham but that's why they are Moon and Bohnham.Oh yeah Zappa's main drummer Ed Mann saw him live on "Joe's Grage" tour.Awesome!
Chazz |
Narada Walden's work with Jeff Beck and Mahavishnu Orchestra should not be overlooked, as I think he played into the music a bit more than Cobham did.
Steve Gadd is another name that should be on this list with all the work he has done.
Two just phenomenal players here.. |
I just realized there are two pages of responses to this thread that go back to 2006. Someone else picked the same drummer with the same comment that I made (i.e. "...without
a doubt"). Also, I checked the date and noticed it was written on my birthday in 2006. Eerie! |
No mention of Mickey Hart or Bill Kreutzman? Hmmmm....Each of them individually is outstanding, together pretty amazing. |
Keith Moon (The Who), without a doubt. |
Heyyyyy... got to give some to Chad Wackerman, Vinnie, Chester and Arthur Tripp!!...not laying claim to any "best" designations, but those guys banged skin on some high quality FZ stuff. |
Zappa always snagged the very best drummers. Dunbar was one, Bozzio was another, and don't forget Ralph Humphries. |
Thomas Prigeon of the "Mars Volta" is astounding, and Phil Selway of Radiohead
is one of my favorite "invisible" drummers (the guys that just play what's right for the song-no flashy fills or pyrotechnics).
Terry Bozzio is certainly no slouch, and Vinnie Colaiuta ain't either. Both are from Zappa's band. Mmm-forgot Ainsley Dunbar. |
|
Really, you can't rip off a drum solo "note for note", because drums don't really have "notes" - lolololo roflao!! |
Somehow I missed this thread. There have been many great drummers in the rock genre. Some are superb technically, and less interesting artistically, like Carl Palmer. Others are less technically adept, but are just born with what it takes to be great. Clive Bunker, Jethro Tull's first drummer comes to mind.
For me, the best combination of incredible technical mastery combined with superb artistic creativity was embodied in the late great Mitch Mitchell. As an example, I would cite his performance on "Straight Ahead", originally released on "Cry of Love". All these years later, and I am still amazed. |
|
I second Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater, the guy's drumming is insane... I've seen them live several times and his drum kit is always huge. |
Jim Gordon before he went off the deep end
Love his drum solo on 'Jump Into the Fire'
There was a reason he played on everything in the early seventies.
Regards, |
|
1-Carl Palmer
2-Neil Peart
3-Danny Carey
4-Mike Portnoy
5-Keith Moon |
you mean mike portnoy...yeah he is insane!!! |
Mark Portnoy of Dream Theater. Very heavily influenced by Neil Pert. |
Not the Best, but I would toss Cozy Powell in the mix as well |
The drummer in Marty's video is Steve Moore. Thanks for the laugh Marty. Here is again Wipeout |
|
Cool link Shad but that guy IMO wasnt as impressive and a couple times to me atleast he almost lost the stick or the beat. But boy I wish I could do even half of what he could. |
