Best Bang for your Buck DAC ?

@boomerbillone I’m glad that you like your Project Prebox s2... I am using the M500 now. In my system the Project was a bit on the lean side, but to be fair, I am using the M500 running balanced and I tweaked the filters to my liking. I did not touch filters on the project. I also find the M500 slightly more dynamic. I really believe that it is a matter of taste and system matching to a high degree.

The one that comes in my cd player....is the best for me....lol

Innuous/Roon/Qobuz

Merason Frerot...mic drop!

Yup, @jiss49 perfectly well said, was thinking the same. People read half the question, see DAC and start pitching their favorite gear as if they get a prize should the OP end up buying their recommended piece of kit.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how this turned into my magnum opus. Just got all wound up reading through the many comments and felt how important it is now for ME to show EVERYONE how smart and clever I am. Seriously, I guess I really don’t have a life…
If all you want is the essence of this, skip to “Quick summary” on bottom.
……..

OP: What I gather from your post and comments is that you need more than just a good DAC, but rather a “family friendly” set-up, which really means that you may end up needing/wanting two devices: a streamer with super easy connectivity through your Tidal on Apple devices, to keep the family happy PLUS possibly a better DAC to improve upon the streamer’s internal DAC. Yes?

If correct, then we are in the same boat and I am pretty familiar with some of the issues as well as solutions (IN YOUR PRICE BRACKET AND USING TIDAL FOR STREAMING, that is for around 1k).

One way to go is using a streamer such as the Bluesound Node 2i to provide family-friendly access to everyone without needing third party software or apps. The big differentiator is the introduction of Tidal connect and any streamer supporting it. Tidal connect allows you to completely bypass a streamers own software/control app, including the Bluesound OS of the Node 2i. Maybe Tidal connect wasn’t around yet when you tried out the Node.
Instead, with one click (ok, two) from WITHIN YOUR TIDAL APP on your iphone, you are directing the Tidal server to send the music instead to your phone to your Tidal connect capable streamer. Bluesound was one of the first couple brands supporting this; but of course the list is slowly growing like Cambridge Audio is updating some of their products (but no MQA with Cambridge) and more recently, Volumio OS now offers Tidal direct support which is great news - so any streamer that can run Volumio (any Pi based streamer that is; Volumio themselves make a very nice streamer btw the Volumio Primo) can give you streaming access/control from within the Tidal app; you don’t actually have to use the Volumio software or Bluesound OS.

The fact that the music stream with Tidal connect does not travel through your phone before reaching your stereo has a bunch of advantages, one being you can hardwire your streamer with an ethernet cable and say you had weak spots in your wifi network at home, your music playback would not be affected if you moved with your phone into such area - or even if you did rely on wifi and your network at home is stable and awesome, if you turned off your device the music would continue to play or if you wanted to use another app on your phone that plays audio, say youtube, you could watch a video with sound on your phone yet the Tidal stream on your stereo would remain unaffected. Or you get a phone call etc etc you get the idea. Take that, bluetooth…

At this point you could already be done, if you pick a streamer/Dac combo, such as the Node 2i which has a decent sounding DAC that can fully decode MQA. I have to assume that MQA playback capability is mandatory for you as a Tidal user seeking improved audio performance, otherwise I would question the wisdom of shopping for a better DAC while forgoing the capability to take advantage of Tidal’s higher resolution Master files and capping it at CD level.

*** A quick side note to all the eye-rolling Qobuz, HD and DSD file users: Yes, I know, I know, MQA is a scam and now finally the cat is out of the bag and there is proof for what YOU knew all along. But before getting your panties in a twist and start posting links to the latest revelations and test findings, take a deep breath and consider what this particular thread is about: Helping the OP, a TIDAL user (!), with recommendations how to maximize the sound quality within a 1k BUDGET (!) to stream his music from his APPLE DEVICES & within the TIDAL APP (!), that is a family-friendly solution that does not require the use of third party software/apps. ***

Ok, now finally to the DAC portion of your question and the two things you need to consider while shopping for the best DAC you can afford:
1.) the streamer you buy must have a digital out and be capable to pass the Tidal stream bit-perfect to the DAC you are buying.
2.) the DAC must be able to decode MQA via THAT SPECIFIC INPUT you are connecting to from your streamer.

This is a lot more confusing than meets the eye. Why? Because while DACs generally have multiple digital inputs - coax, optical and USB most commonly - and manufacturers advertise their MQA capability in huge letters all over the place, very few make it clear that the DAC can ONLY decode MQA via it’s USB input. That’s btw why I own a $500 paper weight.
So if you start your upgrade with purchasing a DAC, that may rule out certain streamers and vice versa. The Node for instance can only pass on the data stream to an external DAC using SPDIF (coax/optical), and although the latest ESS chip (ES9068S) can decode MQA natively, there are very few DAC options currently available that could decode a MQA file fed via SPDIF. Someone mentioned the Gustard X16 ($450), which is quite new and just about the only option I am aware of that would work with the Node, since it does use the aforementioned chip and could fully decode the MQA files when fed via SPDIF. Another route that would open up significantly more options in terms of the many DAC choices suggested here would be getting a USB streamer (or just network bridge without a DAC) that runs Volumio (for it’s Tidal connect support that you need) that has a USB out. Then pretty much all DACs advertised as MQA capable will work and you could go through the list here of recommended DACs and see what looks attractive and fits your budget. There were several DACs mentioned here in the $400-600 range that would do the trick. Paired with a pi-based streamer, which start for under $100 with a Raspberry Pi 4 itself + case, to a network bridge like Allo’s USBridge Signature, or more recent an Orchard Audio Pecan Pie streamer or Volumio’s own Primo (maybe the most elegant solution of those mentioned ). As long as they run with Volumio and have USB out you are good to go. The ones mentioned above I happen to be aware of from past research, but there may be newer better options out there already.

Quick summary:
1.) If you want easy and use the Tidal app only, Tidal connect capability is your friend when choosing your streamer
2.) To take advantage of MQA, read the fine print of both streamer and DAC and make sure in combination they can do what you need them to do.

Cheers and happy weekend!

I'm enjoying my Denafrips Ares II for $750.00.  It is not overly clinical, has a great sound stage and a small footrprint.  I  have it paired to a Mcintosh MC 275 Amp.  there seems to be good synergy with tube amps

Hello Again, ngiordano!  I just took delivery of the Pro-Ject  Pre Box S2 Digital and it beats my SMSL M500 by a significant margin. It's getting blown out by several on-line outfits for $400. It came out in 2017 and has gotten good reviews consistently. It does not accept analog inputs, but it has a headphone amp and a volume control. It is very tiny, smaller than a big hamberger bun! Sounds great! Be sure to use a good USB cable. USB cables are critical. Happy Listening!

A  Khadas Tone Board DAC with a linear power supply which bypasses the USB power supply. This is the critical step as the USB power is noisy. With a LPS it competes favorably with a $1500 PS Audio DAC.

Find out how long before Soekris Dac's are in stock

Very happy with my Rega DACr... under a grand and maybe around $450ish for a good used piece. Fabulous build quality and plays great with any electronics I throw at it. 

while all being very good sounding units, the rme adi2 and musical paradise are at opposite ends of the spectrum:

rme is crystal clear, fast sounding, shimmery, slightly mechanical, relatively centralized, flat narrow sound stage -- probably a very honest representation of the digital signal being portrayed

otoh, musical paradise unit is ’enriched’ in the midrange and midbass, slightly rolled on the top and extreme bottom, soundstage ’expanded’ and deepened via tube output stage, more perceived coherence top to bottom

so to use again the very apt analogy by john darko the reviewer -- ’skim milk vs full fat’

schiit gungnir mb is smack in the middle in terms of tonality but with nice imaging (imaging is the rme’s achilles heel imo, not an issue for hp listeners of course)... gungnir issue which led me to move on is there is prominent relay clicking between tracks, if you change source or different bitrates, irritated me

hope this helps those trying to make a choice

Another thumbs-up for the Musical Fidelity V-90. I haven’t auditioned all that many DACs, but did take the v-90 to my dealer to run against a Simaudio $1,500 model. Yes, the Simaudio might have had an edge, but not much. I now have a PS Audio Directstream because that’s what it took for a clear step up with upgradability. 

I’m also in the market for a dac since I bought a Musical Paradise MP701MKII Tube Preamp few months back does it make sense to buy a tube dac? The seller is suggesting to get the Musical Paradise MP D2 MKIII which is a tube dac with a AK4490 but can be upgraded to AK4499 but I’m leaning towards the RME ADI2 which is the same price as the MP tube dac.

I'm a big fan of the Schiit Gungnir multibit. After many hours of play I still like it a lot. The others mentioned here may also be good but the Gumby is so pleasant I am not driven to replace it at the moment.

I see @loomisjohnson recommended the SMSL SU-9. I emailed SMSL about the differences in the SU-9 vs the M500. SMSL replied that they have tested them side by side many times and there is no audible difference. I suspect that there is something but.... The SU9 has 2 ES9038pro chips, the M500 has 1. The SU9 does have bluetooth, the M500 is a stand alone DAC, they both have a headphone amp, a remote, handle MQA, single ended and balanced output. The SU9 uses the Xmos XU208, the M500 uses the Xmos XU216. Not sure that there is any interest here for the op, but I wanted to at least mention the differences. Good Luck

Running Volumio on rpi4 into a Topping D10s. No complaints. It’s a USB only dac with excellent performance and is powered by the pc. Easily the best $100 I’ve spent. 

@jiss49 Thank you. 100% on the mark.

Regardless of possible biases, your suggestion that the OP just go and listen to DAC is right. Either someone actually likes what they hear OR they convince themselves that they like what they hear. Either way they are happy with their choice. Being happy with your choice is basically all that matters in audio.

the smsl su-9 at around $400 is an extremely impressive piece--great sounding dac + preamp w/remote + bluetooth streamer. numerous connectivity/tuning options.

@in_shore 100%. Just to change up my day and take a break, I just tested this out again. I have a Pro-ject streamer that's been connected to a Denafrips Pontus II DAC for the last two weeks. I unplugged the USB cable attached to an Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter and plugged both into an Apple iPhone via an Apple  Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter. The iPhone as a source sounded good, BUT the Pro-ject sounded hands down better in the following ways:

• The iPhone as a source sounded "fuller", but the Pro-ject as a source sounded bigger with a broader soundstage.
• Better resolution of complex musical passages: Electric bass in Blue Moon Revisited on Trinity Sessions, Cowboy Junkies & Waltz for Debby, Bill Evans Trio
• Tonal colors are more evident
• Notes seem to hang in the air longer. Reverberations continue instead of being cut off.
• More presence around voices and instruments.
  
• Complex rhythms are easier to follow via the Pro-ject. Not so much via the iPhone as a source.

it is safe to say this thread has degenerated into the usual random spewing of folks just touting what they have bought or read about, using unfounded superlatives, not having compared a relevant set of legit competing products that would be under consideration if someone really wanted to know

don’t know if op is even reading these replies anymore...

good news is, op is after a relatively cheap dac... so if he/she has the real desire to know, he can try several and see for himself what works well... otherwise we are in the zone of -- ’what is the best bang for buck meal in london?’ ’what is the best bang for buck economy car’? ’what is the best bang for buck espresso grind’? -- leaving aside the idiocy of asking such a subjective question to start with

depends how much you care and how much time effort and $ you are willing to commit to find out - do you want to just be done, or do you have some real ’fomo’?

Hands down, best bang for the buck, Denafrips Ares II. You buy it direct from Denafrips online. $773. US Dollars.   https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac
Here is a good review from Audio Science Review: 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denafrips-ares-ii-usb-r2r-dac-review.1116...

RME. Nothing else compares. 

In my limited experience I have used the Schiit Bifrost 4490, Denafrips Ares II, Topping D90/D50, and the DACs included in the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC and the Bluesound Node 2 - nothing too crazy.   My order of preference - Denafrips by a large margin, then Topping D90, PSGCD, Topping D50 and Bifrost.  I could live with any of those, but the Bluesound didn't measure up to any of the others in A/B testing, IMO, but the Node 2/2i (if you want streaming capabilities too) is a good for-now choice and you can get them used for a good price, and if you decide to get a better DAC in the future, you can still use the Node streaming capabilities.  I would find a used Ares II and be done with it (they do come up on eBay from time to time, and really the warranty directly from the company isn't all that much better), or the most expensive Topping or Schiit you feel comfortable buying.  If you need/want MQA decoding, then that narrows the field a bit. 

Soekris totally sold out

+1 Schiit Modi 3

Borrowed my friends Orchid that he raves about a while back. Sound varied between "I like it", and "this sounds like an MP3". I can see the attraction, but I was too often aware of something "wrong". Would have drove me crazy.  

@dyson2004 No, I’ve not tried the Iriis.  It might be on the shopping list though, especially if my retirement comes earlier than expected.  What have you experiences or heard? 

A lot of good suggestions, I tried the Qutest used and thought it was very nice but sold it. I bought a demo RME  from sweetwater and really like this dac and still have it. It is crystal clear without being sterile, its warm with big bass and does not get blurred or fall apart with complex or busy fast music. It has a lot of adjustments but I run it flat. I did add a Teddy Pardo power supply.

i have the mhdt orchid and added better caps it is a very musical and great dac, it can't hold things together as good as RME during complex music but it has a better sound stage not night and day but it is noticeable. You can't go wrong with either one there both great dac's under $1000 used. 

I will not be very original as I will also recommend Denafrips Ares 2 Dac.
As close as you can get to analogue sounding dac without tubes.
I am rediscovering my cd collection.
It never sounded so good!
Speaking of value, you have to double the price,750 to get a better sound.
Schiot Bifrost 2
sounds also very good and has 5 years warranty!
But it doesn’t have the creamy smoothness of The Ares 2. Enjoy!

$300 buys a lot of parts, and the packaging costs are minimal.

The AudioQuest Cobalt USB DAC has 'no right' to sound as good as it does for $300.00. Amazing piece of miniaturization!

I see several things suggested here that you can't buy for $1,000.
I did recently try the Denafrips Ares 2 and sold it after a week or
so for what I paid. Try that one its pretty good for $750. 

Jolida (black ice) tube dac. Phenomenal dac for the money. You can also change things around with different tubes. A big bargain. 

hshifi237 posts04-20-2021 1:25pmHello,
I have tested some of these DACs. There are basically two types of DACs. R2R which sounds like analog but also a little mellow unless you spend over a thousand like the Denifrips Pontus. When you go to a chipset based DAC it sounds very detailed and airy but less analog unless you spend the money. If you have tubes I say go with the RME or Schiit.

Can't agree with this at all. I would say there are two types of DACs. Those that sound like nothing (intentionally), and those that sound like something (intentionally or not).  By nothing, I mean they do not add or subtract from the sound. Consider them a straight wire. The RME would fit into this category as would many others, and there is astonishingly little ROI after a somewhat modest price point. Don't take my word for it. Here them, level adjusted on a good system without knowing which is which. Good luck telling them apart if they are fed with a source absent electrical noise.

Then there is a whole range of DACs that one could consider flawed in some cases, or voiced in another. I say flawed only in that they are not true to the recording.


If you want a straight wire black box, it is relatively easy to pick, though it is hard to know how well they will reject electrical noise, or jitter if use a non-USB I/F or if that is even an issue in your system.  If you don't want a straight wire black box, then all the suggestions people make here are not going to help you much as it will come down to personal preference.  My suggestion is to ensure you either get a trial period or you can buy used to you can recover most of your cost if you do not like it.

I am really enjoying my Schiit Gungnir multi bit. Sounds great

Hello ngiordano!  I'm very impressed with the SMSL M500. It's small, cute, sings like a bird, and costs only $400 or so. Happy hunting! 

Hello,
I have tested some of these DACs. There are basically two types of DACs. R2R which sounds like analog but also a little mellow unless you spend over a thousand like the Denifrips Pontus. When you go to a chipset based DAC it sounds very detailed and airy but less analog unless you spend the money. If you have tubes I say go with the RME or Schiit. If you have SS you can go with R2R as long as your system is not too warm. RME has an adjustable EQ so it should be good for everything. Try to get something you will lose the least money on when you sell it because you will be upgrading in the future. I would forgo the SBooster power supply for now because you will not get your money back and they are voltage proprietary. DACs are going to improve the most over time. You should look for used. This way you will lose the least amount of money. 

Schiit Modi 3 is a great place to start. Completely affordable and you can check the 'B' Stock section on https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks for open-box and other markdowns. Other option is a used Schiit Bifrost - bit of an upgrade from the Modi, and can usually be had for <$300 on eBay. Have fun!

AME ADI-2 is fantastic, but your use-case may warrant allocating your budget differently.  Family-friendly?  Snag a Sonos Amp and treat the power properly, euphonic and simple.  Hegel H95 if you want to spend more.  At that price point, to my ears, the synergy of a quality integrated surpasses the benefits of a superlative DAC.

Topping at any price level

Mhdt Havana 2 x BB PCM56P + Valve. I have one for you.

For me it’s what’s up stream of the dac that made a significant difference in sound quality. However everyone’s experiences can be completely different chasing better playback by way of changing dacs focusing on the source will pay off in dividends.

Then to the other side member Djones51 comments above , I read enough of his comments to believe he’s some sort of self appointed consumer watchdog and advocate whom reacts with belittling others here that in his mind are waisting their own money .

This illusion of better sound quality is imaginary and doesn’t really exist , he paints everyone with with same brush like many are impressionable and naive 12 year olds .
Djones if your completely happy with your $300.00 dac and $3.00 Amazon power cord enjoy ! 

Better look for good return policy.  Some are quirky to operate.   Apos audio sells several brands.  Audio Mirror, Gustard, Schiit, Topping, Chord, just to name a few are good sounding.  

Check out the Mytek liberty. American company, does Mqa through spdif, coax, or usb, also a headphone amp. I couldn’t be happier with mine, especially since I added a linear power supply. This thing sings! Also if you should need service, it goes to Brooklyn not somewhere in China. Just my two cents.

@bcdavid I agree. Denafrips make fantastic DACS. Have you also tried their Iris?

Denafrips Ares 2. It’s a wonderful DAC. 

I second the Musical Fidelity v90 dac, although I tout it all the time. It is a stereophile class A recommended component. It has many inputs, 2 toslink, 1 usb, and 1 coax. It has beautiful case work, small form factor and sounds terrific. You could change out power supply as someone else mentioned, but I do not find it necessary. 

I just picked up the Schiit Audio Bifrost 2, and the difference in my system was breathtaking (literally)! I am using that mated to a Brennan B2 which I used to RIP my cd collection. It is my first DAC so I have not auditioned or compared to any others. I did quite a bit of research before purchasing and all indicators were that Schiit was the way to go. I absolutely LOVE this DAC! I too had the AQ Cobalt and ended up selling it - but only because I purchased the Brennan and no longer need the Cobalt...

Best of Luck!

Im looking at all these DACs some are small like embedded on your phone small to a dragonfly small to a 4x4 size to a Full CD player size with power cord, The more money you spend is there more going on than just converting 00000011111's to analog I feel like its augmenting the sound to make what's perceived as High fidelity , im just trying to understand it all

JJSS49  
"don’t forget to get a good streamer too, don’t just run the digital feed out of a computer"  
  JJSS49   thanks for everyones input cause there so many to choose from , Im was playing my music thru my Hifi Tidal app on my apple device over an apple pigtail to Dragonfly cobalt over audio quest Goldengate RCA to my CD input cause thats what audio quest suggested. My CD sound field mirrors my Heos sound field and I didn't feel like there was a real benefit so I demoted the dragonfly to the CPU where it does do some Justice for my PC system. Im still new to all this , I did try a Bluesound node 2 out but didn't like the interface so much so I returned it cause it was night and day accessing Tidal like from my tidal app. I would like to be able to use my Tidal app on my phone not some intermediate device like a blue sound that just complicates things ergonomicly  , my wife and daughter have to be able to use it to I'm a family man. why is going from 00001111's to analog so difficult ?