Basis Audio makes very fine, highly regarded vinyl playback products. Some of the best vinyl rigs I've ever heard were fronted by Basis Turntables.
Ripoff? No, absolutely not! Worth it? Only you can answer that question as value is in the eyes, and wallet, of the beholder. Is a Rolex worth it? A Bugatti Veyron worth it? Only if you can truly afford it.......
Maybe it would be better to tell us what Basis products you are interested in buying and what are the costs. Unless someone is raising Basis prices based on the recent demise of the designer, Basis Audio always seemed to me to be good value for money. If you want rip-offs in vinyl gear, there are much riper targets than Basis. BUT I don't know what you are looking at and for how much.
Basis makes a great high precision item with a very high performance level. The Basis tonearm is an excellent tonearm. I had a Vector 3 and the performance, compared to a Rega or something in that range, was so much better it was hard for me to believe my ears.
SR is a scam, but I’m not calling Basis that, just curious about the value proposition.
Is the 1400 worth it, it would I be much happier with the next level up? How much is Basis’ perscision engineering worth compared to other, perhaps less, exacting standards at that price point (VPI, Pro-Ject, etc)?
Then , please , tell us all what you yourself gauge against a product of Basis’ calibre from the base level on up, to even have a reason to ask , or more to the point and truth, make false innuendo in the first place with the term "rip off". What do YOU , personally own and use now to be so suspect. It must be spectacular in "your" opinion to not see what all others see as precise , quality built AND sounding products, at least as plainly as we see the reason for your post from the get go. If you have to ask a question such as this , I definitely would suggest you, yourself, learn THE BASICS about all things analog and better ways to camouflage your intentions.........................
Value is in the eye of the buyer and user, maybe more so in audio than in any other hobby. For example, while I have defended Basis Audio products just as most others have done, I too think that SOME (not all) of the Synergistic Research stuff is suspect. I only mention that to point out that each of us has his or her own threshold for suspending disbelief.
Actually, the used prices for Basis tables seems amazingly low. Yes, 5k for a Vector 4 arm is a lot of money, but that seems to be what the traffic will bear for most good arms.
Most of Basis' models don't look quite as elegant as comparably priced models of some of their competitors. Basis hardly puts any money into visual aesthetics. Given that a lot of buyers DO place a lot of value in looks, I can see how Basis loses some "value" points in that department. Basis excels in other ways. The build quality is superb and all parts are precisely made to very tight tolerances. You will not see any wobble at all in the rotation of their platters, for example, something that cannot be said of all tables (if you look really closely).
Whether or not one will like the sound of their arm/table combinations is also a matter of taste. Their tables are very much into damping vibration, both external vibration or vibration generated by the table itself or vibration from the stylus tracking a record. Some systems (and their owner's taste) favor such highly damped tables, some prefer a more lively sound (to detractors, Basis tables sound "dark" or "dead").
Hence, Basis tables are certainly not a "ripoff," but like any other table, they can be the wrong table for any particular individual.
Don't judge a component until you actually hear it, if possible. The most ordinary looking components just may be the one to deliver the best sound to your ears.
Not only do I agree completely with James, but I would add that lots of dollars are spent on bling, only, adding nothing to performance. If that's what one wants, it's perfectly ok, but being aware of this factor is a good idea.
I have had Basis Gold Debut for 20+ years, never had any troubles, replaced motor once as upgrade about 10 years ago. Very stable and great sound! Are they worth the money? Definite yes.
I love my Basis 2001 with the original (1st) Vector arm. Sounds good to me, but then again, I have not heard any turntables in my system. Compared to my digital rig (Lampizator Big 7 and Aurender N10) it always sounds better when playing the same songs/recordings.
When I got my Basis Debut Signature, I was thinking it had a kind of additional premium price tag. Not for everybody to buy. But when I am comparing design and precision with other brands I find it difficult to find any better alternative. If anyone know a better alternative and WHY it is better I defenitely want to know. Always looking for improvements..
One more thing about Basis - amazing customer service. I sent them my motor, bearing and platter to check out and they did it in one day. Adjusted the motor, oiled the bearing, checked tolerances and speed stability. All for a $120 service charge. Great company.
I compared the Basis Vector 3 to a Basis branded Rega, a Rega 600, and a Rega based Origin OL-1 silver.
It was significantly better than all of them. Better bass response and the imaging was so much better it is hard to describe. I was using a Shelter 901 cartridge at the time.
madavid, This & your tonearm thread are absolutely ridiculous. Be happy with what you have & when you can move on. Or just move on & leave our happy little community alone.
Table builders that make damping vibration generated from the playing of the record itself (energy dissipating platter, clamping systems design to dissipate vibrations generated by the playing of the record, extremely rigid tonearms designed to transmit away energy fed into the tonearm from the cartridge being shaken by the tracking of the groove) do sound dramatically quieter. Surface imperfections of the record that cause a sharp impulse do not resonate and prolong the even so they pass quickly and sound much less obtrusive. That is particularly obvious with the Basis table/arm, particularly with vacuum hold-down.
I've also heard this type of performance from the bigger ClearAudio table/arm combinations.
Funny as I found this thread for some reason. I know it's old, but it's still relevant. I sold my 1400 to Tomic. I miss it e very day. It was the best TT under 5000 that I auditioned. Yes, ti was that good as he states and that's the discontinued 1400. I have MS and have an issue getting up every 20 minutes to clean and change a record.
I have The Memory Player with every update for digital. It's the best digital server, streamer that I have ever listened to and I went this route because I can't do analog for the most part. I now am thinking about getting a simple all in one TT to get to hear my albums that I can't find in digital. I will MISS that Basis 1400 greatly. I've heard most of the TT offerings in the Basis price ranges (new not used TT's). Basis and the Linn LP12 and one of the VPI tables just sound incredible in the under 6k or so range. Basis may be the best value table that I've heard.
Each of us is different. There are 8 types of MS. Mine is Primary Progressive. Diagnosed 13 Sept. 2017, Confirmed on 18 Sept. 2017 at University of Chicago.
Yes, I too have issues with getting up and flipping the record to the next side, Finding the next record, cleaning it, getting it to my TTs, cleaning stylus, cueing the tonearm, etc,etc. I am determined to hold on, as long as I can. My room is dedicated, cleaning area is dedicated. I need to be extra careful carrying the record to my TTs. I manage it. The room and everything is setup to help me with every difficult thing in the process. Since, I have become homebound, It is my main enjoyment in life. I also have great WAF.
In my younger years, I was an Airborne / Ranger type guy. Surrender, was not to be found in our training or the manual. There is No Cure. The disease will continue to progress. I will fight to the last. My Best to you.
LP12 owner for 28 years.I could no longer deal with the suspension. Just touching the cueing lever would set the TT in motion. I have resolved this with two unsuspended TTs, A Kuzma Stabi S and a modded Technics SL1200G modded with a Triplanar tonearm.
I get to enjoy my last passion available to me, with a bit of extra work. My 28 year old CDP, bit the dust about 4-5 weeks ago. I have 83 CDs, 4 are test or burn in CDs. No great loss at this time.
The drug that I get by infusion, is supposed to prolong my life and reduce some of the complications. Time will tell.
I will continue with vinyl as long as I can. Digital, just does not cut it for me. Digital will be a last resort when that time comes. Also, having MS does not make me immune from, Cancer, Heart attach or anything else lurking out there.
Hang in there ctsooner, My Best to you and family.
As others have said Basis makes great turntables. I am not a fan of their tonearms as they are unipivots which are inherently unstable. The problem with Basis Turntables is SOTA and to a lesser extent SME. My best friend has a Basis Debut with a Graham tonearm which I have mounted cartridges in several times. Both SOTA and SME tables perform just as well and in the case of the SOTA are much less expensive and IMHO better looking. I am just not a fan of the techno plastic look. Some would argue that SME tables are the best of all and they are if you want to mount a long tonearm as both SOTA and Basis will only take short ones. The SME can also be configured to handle very heavy arms like the Kuzma 4 Point 11 and 14 if you get the 20/12 or the 30/12. I do not include the Kuzma Stabi M in the mix because it is not a suspended turntable in the classic sense. It is an isolated turntable. It will not handle low frequency excursions like foot falls.
nkonor and ctsooner, I recently retired from a career as a medical scientist (in the field of virology). Your testimonies reminded me that at about the time I was in med school, nearly 50 years ago, the concept of "autoimmune" disease was described, and there was great optimism that diseases like MS, Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, etc, would soon be understood and made cureable, as opposed to "treatable". I am very sad that this endpoint has not yet been reached, even after so many years have passed and even as a result of a massive increase in our understanding of the immune system. My heart goes out to both of you guys, and your posts should make the rest of us who are in good health realize that we are very lucky and that our arguments about audio gear are really quite trivial, even silly, by comparison to what is really important in life. Carry on.
nkonor and ctsooner, I just backed up and read your posts. Hang in there. There are new biologics coming out every day. Medicine will figure it out. In the mean while I have several disabled patients I take care of at home. One was a music teach at a local high school. He has Becker's muscular distrophy. He is set up with an Apple Mini and a 6 TB hard drive connected to a 75" TV. He can buy high res files on line and play any music he wants right from his wheel chair. One night we loaded all his CDs into the hard drive for him. No it is not a turntable and it is digital but quite a few of the high res files are better than their vinyl counterparts more than likely due to different mastering. Some of these files will definitely drop your chin.
Rip off is kind of harsh. Maybe because you’re not enamored with the visual aspects of the Basis turntables? Sometimes it’s a trade off or compromise. I can’t comment on the sound of the Basis turntables or their build quality but I would believe the poster’s comments on here that they are indeed fine turntables and you could probably find a used one for a good price. Of course the ultimate goal is the sound quality. I’m sure you can find a table that sounds good and pleases you visually too. To me, the Basis tables are little boring visually. What’s more important, looks or sound? Or, must you have both? That’s the goal for me. It has to be both unless the deal is too good to pass up. Then, I would settle for just sounding good and can live with the looks.
First off, thanks for sharing guys. I too have Primary Progressive MS. The Mandell MS Center in Hartford, CT is on the cutting edge of things. I started with Howard Weiner as my primary doc. He was the best for me when I started this journey. Was blessed to be seen by him. My doc now has MS himself and can relate to it all. I am part of a long term genetic study at NIH. They fly me down twice a year and we are doing amazing things. I'm very involved with the CT chapter of the MS Society as well as nationally and I'm also active/advocate with Trinity Health Group. I still have ideas even though I can no longer implement those ideas. That's why we are all a team. Back to audio, lol.
Mijosten, I understand that many won't look at a product due to looks. As for saying their tone arms aren't as good as someone else's because of their pivot, that is plain wrong. AJ's arm's are considered of the best in the world. Which ones did you audition? If you don't like how they sound, that's totally different. Would love to hear your views on the sound of each table and what other components you heard them with as that's the most important thing (arms, system, Cartridges, cables, phono and the rest of the system).
The other tables you speak about have sounded great for me also. (for what I enjoy hearing). There are a ton of great tables on the market now. Very few are rip offs as the OP was asking (even though it's a veiled attempt to run down Basis). We are blessed that we can get a full set up under 1k that is fine for those of us who just want to play albums when someone else can help set it up, lol.
There are many good tables on the market, and that certainly includes the Basis tables. The particular strength of Basis is very tight manufacturing tolerances. You will not see any rotational wobble, platters are carefully balanced, and one rarely hears about manufacturing related problems with the tables.
Most of their tables are designed to damp vibration created by the stylus tracking the groove so that this energy does not feed back to cartridge. This does impart a particular character to the sound--the Vector Arm and Basis table combinations tend to sound "dark" and not as "jangly" as some other tables. To some, this is a very good quality, to others, the sound might seem a little "dead." I own a Basis Debut with a vacuum clamp and a motor controller, so I like its well damped behavior (the rest of my system is lively sounding so this might be a case of synergy).
ctsooner, I have not listened to either Basis arm so I can not make any comments on how they sound. I have spent a lot of time playing around with Graham arms. I will not even look at unipivots for myself because (and this is going to sound a bit harsh) they are mechanically incompetent and you can see it just lifting the arm! A tone arm has to hold the cartridge rigidly in the appropriate orientation to the record with only two degrees of freedom, up and down, side to side. Wobbling on axis is just plain out of bounds. I do not think it takes a mechanical genius to see this. It is popular because it is a cheap easy way to make a tonearm. You just have to plop the thing down on a single point which in the case of VPI arms wears out frequently. It is much more expensive and difficult to use fine bearings and get them oriented and loaded perfectly.
A unipivot does have the freedom of movement to rock from side to side. Whether this wobble actually occurs when playing a record, and the degree to which such motion will adversely affect the sound, is the subject of much debate. But, the Vector arm is NOT a conventional unipivot. In addition to the pivot point at the top of the arm, there is a second point perpendicular to the main vertical pivot that stabilizes the arm. The Vector arm is weighted to lean in one direction (clockwise tilt if you look from the front of the arm toward the pivot). That tendency to lean toward the right is resisted by a horizontal pin that contacts a bearing around the axis of the main vertical post/pivot. By screwing that horizontal pivot in or out, that stabilizing pivot also allows for precise setting of azimuth.
This design means that this is NOT a unipivot--it has two pivots, and it is stabilized from any kind of rocking motion. As with any design, this involves some, at least theoretical, disadvantages, such as an increase in friction in the movement of the arm.
Thanks Larry, This is a problem in audio. Many of us have summarily not liked something based on what we've read or know or heard without listening to said product. I'm sure that everyone has done this at one time or another. Many actually do this all the time which is why they are constantly chasing their tails and keeping AG in business (so thanks for that, lol).
I'm nothing close to an engineer, but I do know what I like to hear without listening to sales folks for even friends. I've been looking at TT's again this week, thinking I may get another lesser set up than what I had in the past. I have been told that direct drive is now best, because they can control the vibrations better. I've been told that this arm is better than that arm and that this bearing will sound better than that one. It's really interesting to hear folks tell me what sounds best, yet only two stores so far have told me to come in and audition. Fidelis in NH and Audio Connection in NJ are the two and both carry a nice array of tables including the Technics.
I can't afford a Basis this time around, but if I could, I'd still audition it next to the Technics, Acoustic Signature, VPI and the Music Hall/Project tables to name a few. To me, convenience and sound are the only things I care about.
While I have chosen direct drive due to what I hear when I use good ones compared to good belt-drives, I would be the last to say they necessarily "control vibrations better". What they do better is keep time. Constant speed. But I do recognize that there are excellent examples of turntables using any of the 3 major types of drive system currently available, thanks to the re-emergence of vinyl as a commercial market.
mijostyn, good minds think alike. I've been in touch with them about their rebuilt tables. I have decided to just have my albums that I don't have digitized or can't stream, recorded for me. It's cheaper in the long run and my server/streamer The Memory Player sounds better than most vinyl I've heard that is under 5k. I'm blown away at how good it is and they do constant software and hardware updates that are reasonable.
My friend just got a rebuilt Sapphire. If I were to have gotten back into the race, it would be the Acoustic Signature, Technics, VPI, Sota and not sure who else.
As for reviewers, I'm friends with a few. Very close friend just had his first one published in TAS last month (NAD M10). I don't really go with what they say or do as they all have special systems to review with. They get their gear for free or industry cost (much of the time) as it's free advertising for companies. Many have been very aggressive in getting reviewers to use their gear publicly. In private many I know are using Vandersteen speakers, which I find ironic. Sorry to get off topic.
Bottom line is that Basis is a great TT company who makes as exacting a table IRT tolerances as anyone on the planet. Even their belts are specially made and the cost reflects it. I will tell you that it makes an audible difference. Not huge, but it does even on the older 1400 model with the rebuilt Rega 300 arms they came with.
I remember looking at Basis turntables some years ago. Then last year I checked up on them again and found that the prices appear to have been increased tremendously.
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