Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

@rudyb +1

So yes ... some people are snobs, and over spenders. But hey ... if someone likes to buy it and is happy with his purchase all is well, isn’t it?

And if there are people who like to warn that some ’high end’ audio equipment have false (marketing) claims and some is 100x higher priced than the net worth of the components used, than that’s OK too, isn’t it?

To your questions - yes! and yes! but apparently not with some or there wouldn't be any reason for this thread. 

No sacred cows were harmed during the writing of this post 🐄🐮

If you can’t measure it then it’s placebo effect.

@cd318 

If you want to really get under the skin of the ASR thought police bring up the years of Hi Fi Choice unsighted group test reviews which consistently described significant differences between the sound of components and ranked them accordingly.

You make an excellent point! Impossible to disagree with.

OK, time for a question:

Suppose we have an amplifier that measures absolutely perfect, never seen better:

• 1 - 100 kHz absolutley flat within 0.1 dB
• 0.00001 distortion
• perfect square wave and pulse response

Will it sound good? Well ... it has to be the best, cleanest, absolute neutral sounding equipment we ever heard.

But will we like it?

Probably some will, but others may not, because:

• We’re not used to such a perfect, objectively neutral, sound. Our audio memory is trained over the years and has certain expectations, and this deviates.
• Chances are a bit of coloration, or THD, or both, may sound more pleasing. Which is why many prefer tubes, or vinyl, with their measurable deviant sound signature.
• It’s not for nothing that there used to be a ’Loudness’ switch and a Bass & Treble control on amplifiers. These got eliminated with high end equipment because, hey, we do have our pride! But actually, with lower SPL a bit of extra low and high would be pleasing.

Conclusion: perfect measurement results not necessarily mean it sounds pleasing. And, ’pleasing’ is very subjective. Yet, equipment designers will use measurements and will strive for good numbers first ... from there the tweaking may start.

And, if a manufacturer promises improved jitter but measurements show nothing has improved, than that’s a scam.

Admittedly hip-hop sounds terrible played over high end equipment, need a ghetto blaster for that.

A $5000 wrist watch doesn’t show better time than a $5 one. Still they are sold. So yes ... some people are snobs, and over spenders. But hey ... if someone likes to buy it and is happy with his purchase all is well, isn’t it.

And if there are people who like to warn that some ’high end’ audio equipment have false (marketing) claims and some is 100x higher priced than the net worth of the components used, than that’s OK too, isn’t it?

@kota1 Of course it is sexist. Get over it. In my current occupation I work with 40 women and 4 men. Women are light years ahead of us naive blokes being able to get away with un-corroborated gossip. True by definition.

I log on to AG and see, oh, I’m back at work.  More women pretending to be men.

noske,I think that is a sexist comment "womens gossip". I am really surprised, shame, don't ever criticize someone using a term like chi-fi, just unbelievable you would post this.

@kota1 The only "bombs" going off around here are truth bombs. Dude, I am only trying to save you some dough, unlike some people at ASR I don’t need your advice,

I disagree about truth bombs being activated. There is a great deal of second hand womens kinda gossip - hence my surprise when you admitted that you did not know about the PA5 debacle.

No, you don’t need my advice to steer clear of idle gossip and hearsay, you are well prepared to contribute as a keyboard warrior.

noske, have I passed the plate your way asking for a handout? The only "bombs" going off around here are truth bombs. Dude, I am only trying to save you some dough, unlike some people at ASR I don't need your advice, your capital, or obedience.

you fellas are ridiculous. "this is war" lmao. has anyone called ASR "snake oil" yet? can't believe how bad this thread got in such a short time 😂

@kota1 I had no idea the word is out about those members at ASR losing all that money for nothing

Says he who has posted 14 comments here bagging ASR.  It was huge news, recently.

My advice - rule number one - before you attack, know your enemy.  Just the basics is necessary, but to do so this is not sufficient.  You didn't know.

Only then may you be credible.

Children don’t understand the strategy and logistics of war.

@laoman, thanks for posting that note, I had no idea the word is out about those members at ASR losing all that money for nothing but a crappy name tag on their avatar, just terrible. Hopefully a few of them read this thread and save some bank from the claws of ASR.

Wow. Spotting shoddy workmanship is not a high watermark to brag about. Any good reviewer would do that. 

As for Tommy lost, he had his day in court is still, some pretty sick sh*t to go on about in an audio forum. Having a trial in the pocket of a judge and jurisdiction where hunting humans is okay as long as you're on the "winning side" is not what you'd want people to think of yourself unless you're one sick individual with an axe to grind. 

So it seems you are the same, lame individual(s) under a new handle, as has been pointed out.

All the best,
Nonoise

Noske I was prepared to cut you some slack but you have just proved that you are a fool.

Let me post a couple of things and then that’s it. Someone above posted that ASR looks at shoddy workmanship, and I agree that is great. If people are shelling out big money or even moderate amounts then people deserve to know if something is built properly.

That is tremendous news. @laoman 

The skilled engineers and those who measure some very important metrics may no longer fear your clawed talon.

You might be amused to read some of the comments of the cultists about this thread:

Guys, please. This "quiet" troll has achieved his intention by turning a number of members of this forum against each other and creating bickering.

Let me post a couple of things and then that’s it. Someone above posted that ASR looks at shoddy workmanship, and I agree that is great. If people are shelling out big money or even moderate amounts then people deserve to know if something is built properly. There are some rumours however that the equipment that is sent to Amir is cherry picked and built to a higher standard that is commercially available.
It is when stupid comments are made that you don’t need to hear equipment, just look at its measurements to determine its quality. When cables are "tested" without being plugged in and when respected manufacturers are labelled charlatans.Then things become silly. Also there is no doubt that ASR has a cult mentality. If you want someone who knows measurements, look at Andrew Jones. There is a person who knows what he is talking about.

Secondly the term "Chi Fi" is not derogatory or racist. There are some Chinese manufacturers that are great. Opera Consonance is one. Another is AM that makes world class equipment - both tube amps and Dacs. I am not sure if Americans know about this brand. The designer is Fang, formerly from Stereo Knights who founded Audio Music. The equipment is awesome.Look at the AM 833S for example.

So what?  Tommy lost he had his days in court. 

you must feel like Thomas Binger ESQ. 

Wow. Really? That's some pretty sick sh*t sick to espouse. Are you really in that camp?

All the best,
Nonoise

Oh my @noske must be a lonely place you’re in. Good luck and I hope you can fill that void. 
 

I really meant that. So long. 
 

@jerryg123 green is not a good color for you.

Oh yes - maroon is something you shared with me that time.  I agree, I prefer the colours of ambience.

Okay so whatever you say.

And please go spend some time with your  therapy critter. 

This thread in which I had some interest has really taken a strange and unfortunate and immature turn.  It's downright embarrassing. 

Moderators?  

Not at all.

I find it an amusing distraction that you guys have to, after being banned, ’lay low’ for a bit, then join again announcing you’re the ’new guy’ with a new name and behaving for a while.

But inevitably, that personality that got you banned in the first place starts cracking that facade, and out leaks those same childish, abrasive, insulting posts in the exact same writing style that got you banned in the first place. Please do carry on, can’t wait wait to see what you two write next! Actually, never mind. Please don't derail the thread.

You have lost it!! No idea who your nemeses are but you need to spend more time in counseling. 

I'm sorry, should I be calling him skypunk instead?

@thecarpathian I have no idea who this Juan is... you should put the bong down. 

@noske green is not a good color for you. She is a Music major and a gifted Flautist.

So you are what a shepherd? 

@jerryg123 she is a genius and only 16 and in her second year at Northwestern

So, she may take a class in psychology and perhaps learn the nuances of projectionism, narcissistic behaviour and other related unacceptable social behaviour.

Might gently teach her Dad who is recovering from a major stroke a thing or two.about kindness.

Ah, here we are. You're cousins!

This is a direct quote from jerryg123 commenting on a thread started by earlflynn about the Quality x200, which coincidentally both own.

"I was talking to the guy who wrote this review this morning. He is my cousin and lives down in Texas and he also owns a X200 and had a similar issue."

@noske she is a genius and only 16 and in her second year at Northwestern so yes she deserves an Ace. 
 

Oh and she has a full scholarship. 

@jerryg123 You were never my friend and Topping crap would not even be in my daughters dorm room. She has a Simaudio ACE.

Your circa teenage daughter has a high end stereo system in her dorm room?  That's swell.  Entitled.

Wow nuts buddy just nuts. 

Okay mr @thecarpathian move on so now Am I Errol or Jerry. You are crazy.
 

Please take your meds.  

@jerryg123 ,

Tell us again how you and @juanmanuelfangioii are related , I forget...

@noske You were never my friend and Topping crap would not even be in my daughters dorm room. She has a Simaudio ACE.

@jerryg123 Attention K-Mart shoppers under the blue light is a Topping DAC.

Topping DAC D90SE is USD$799.

Should that be K-Mart price to you, then we are no longer friends.

@thecarpathian you must feel like Thomas Binger ESQ. 

Time to move on. 

@kota1 you don't post what is gospel at the altar of ASR= ban.

Please share the circumstances under which you were banned by ASR.  Feel free to be expansive.

Every few hundred posts I jump into this thread to remind people that a bad review from ASR is a Badge of Honor.  That is all.

Wow crazy town here. 

Agree ASR is all about the inexpensive gear. Attention K-Mart shoppers under the blue light is a Topping DAC. 

Don't fall for the misdirection, ASR is pay to play, you don't pay, you don't post what is gospel at the altar of ASR= ban. Truth is not the friend of propaganda when you have a meter running and people laying out their plastic with NO idea where the driver is taking them. He is taking them "for a ride"alright',  right into his pocket. 

😢 

And you should as I am not Errol but I hope you find him as you are endeared to him or her. 

I didn't know Amir previously worked for Harmon Kardon.  Maybe that has influenced his preference for Revel speakers?   Well personal integrity is something I do find a problem with considering his retail sales interest in promoting products he measures well while chastising so many other products he has never heard, especially anything he considers too expensive and snake oil.  

I don't like the @juanmanuelfangioii and @noske verbal attacks on each other.  I see points of each.  Chi-fi is both derogatory and a commonly used term.   CCP manufactured products currently provide a broad range of audio products from really cheap to excellent in quality.   My qualm with Chinese made audio are the parts used are generally not of audio quality but of electronic/computer grade.  Designs are often excellent.  I have heard many Chinese made audio equipment and have found some very good products at very competitive prices.  I rather purchase excellent quality used non CCP made audio gear than the typical CCP gear at the same new prices.  Many top audio manufacturers now design in Western countries and have Chinese build the products. 

I rest my case.

Wow the Gwyneth Paltrow candles are circling. 

Bunch of vag's especially carp boy. Keep trying to tag me with this earroll guy.

Lame and lamer. 

@noske ,

You don’t know?

Juanmanuelfangioli is the former earlflynn.

You know, the guy who was banned for all his childish taunting and vulgarity...

@noske you are woke and failed. A threat I am in Chicago child. That is sarcasm.

Please move on child. Such a prude. So lame.

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