Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy


"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

fleschler

Showing 4 responses by rudyb

Admittedly hip-hop sounds terrible played over high end equipment, need a ghetto blaster for that.

A $5000 wrist watch doesn’t show better time than a $5 one. Still they are sold. So yes ... some people are snobs, and over spenders. But hey ... if someone likes to buy it and is happy with his purchase all is well, isn’t it.

And if there are people who like to warn that some ’high end’ audio equipment have false (marketing) claims and some is 100x higher priced than the net worth of the components used, than that’s OK too, isn’t it?

OK, time for a question:

Suppose we have an amplifier that measures absolutely perfect, never seen better:

  • 1 - 100 kHz absolutley flat within 0.1 dB
  • 0.00001 distortion
  • perfect square wave and pulse response

Will it sound good? Well ... it has to be the best, cleanest, absolute neutral sounding equipment we ever heard.

But will we like it?

Probably some will, but others may not, because:

  • We’re not used to such a perfect, objectively neutral, sound. Our audio memory is trained over the years and has certain expectations, and this deviates.
  • Chances are a bit of coloration, or THD, or both, may sound more pleasing. Which is why many prefer tubes, or vinyl, with their measurable deviant sound signature.
  • It’s not for nothing that there used to be a ’Loudness’ switch and a Bass & Treble control on amplifiers. These got eliminated with high end equipment because, hey, we do have our pride! But actually, with lower SPL a bit of extra low and high would be pleasing.

Conclusion: perfect measurement results not necessarily mean it sounds pleasing. And, ’pleasing’ is very subjective. Yet, equipment designers will use measurements and will strive for good numbers first ... from there the tweaking may start.

And, if a manufacturer promises improved jitter but measurements show nothing has improved, than that’s a scam.

 

@amir_asr Well spoken amir. Although, banning someone for stating an opinion is quite harsh, could such in future maybe be solved via discussion or a PM?

OK ... so ... someone claims he/she has a nicer ’soundstage’ after installing an expensive ethernet cable, while if we measure this cable there’s no difference at all in the transfer of the bits and bytes. Or someone else claims more bass extension after upgrading to an expensive power cord ... while it’s inexplicable? These people enjoy their purchase, while others may say they are scammed. How can we live peacefully together?

I have no solution, other than please stay calm. There’s no reason for quarrel between objectivists who solely rely on facts and measurements and subjectivists who don’t discard the measurements but also rely on their feelings. If he/she hears a difference, who am I to deny this is even possible?

It’s like wine tasting ... we can objectively measure acidity and spectrum analyze the exact chemical composition, still people will smell and taste different things.

As long as measurements are not brought upon us as better or worse ’sound quality’ and as long as subjective hearing is not brought upon us as a fact, maybe we can all appreciate each others measurements and opinions and live peacefully together? Without bans?

I feel like the whole discussion comes down to the definition of what is ’better’.

One could say equipment A is ’better’ than B based on measured parameters like frequency response, pulse response, distortion, phase, waterfall and what have you.

As far as hearing goes, it’s always completely subjective. We can’t use the word ’better’ in this respect, it’s all about how much a person likes the sound. People may like vinyl or tubes more, even though measurements prove the sound is colored or has higher distortion. People may hear a difference between power cords, even though it can’t be measured. So what? If someone likes it more, than that’s a given.

I actually have no idea what the whole discussion is about. Scientific measurements can deduct a certain device measures better than another, and listening tests can deduct a person likes a certain sound more than another. These are two entirely different things, and both can live perfectly together.