arc is doing just fine... making top tier gear, with happy customers
they are not for those on a tight budget... not their play...
they are not for those on a tight budget... not their play...
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One of the potential issues for all high end buyers in this market is the ongoing viability of the company/manufacturer that they are investing in. Many (most?) of the high end audio companies are really just small potatoes when it comes to production capability and company size. One bad circumstance/business disruption can and will put them down quickly ( and permanently!). It is a risk that I think most of us realize and will have to be ok with going forward, IMHO. |
It’s all about capitalization to maintain quality and service. I just took delivery of a Ref Phono 3SE and line 1 had an inoperative R channel despite the customary QC card stating full working order. The build quality on the new series is good but not exemplary. My 160S meters failed and to their credit ARC replaced the entire amp (now 160B) which has new meters from a new supplier (I was told). I have been a steady ARC customer since 1979, and I wish them well, but the sale/takeover/management change suggests loss of capital which in the current economic climate does not bode well. My most recent ARC experience is not fully reassuring either. |
To those who listed my post in their comments: When I visited the AR manufacturing line in the 1970's, what I saw was a group of nice ladies (mostly) going through what Mr. Johnson told me were the "best" components from each manufacturer. They measured them (supposedly the manufacturer or someone in the supply line had done this already to make sure AR only received the "best of the best" parts) and then discarded (returned) a number of them for not being up to AR standards. So, despite pre-qualification of the individual parts, AR people were even MORE stringent than their suppliers in picking the individual parts that went into each item they produced. From a business standpoint, this is obviously expensive--labor, returns, specifying only the "best" (by measurement) parts even be sent to them. Thus, the $595.00 (then $650.00 and then $695.00) SP-3 pre-amps did not fail EVER under my watch. I personally installed A-1 kits sent from the factory to many of them as the upgrades became available and none of them ever failed either. Since this was a comparatively low-volume operation--back then, Lyric Hi Fi in NYC was their biggest dealer. Mr. Johnson, or it might have been Wendell, told me they sold about 13 of their SP-3 pre-amps/month. We sold about 2 in my small shop. Given that there were fewer than 30 dealers in those days, it would not have been that hard to control total quality using such techniques. Only 1 product from Audio Research ever arrived DOA at my shop, whereas most products from places like Nakamichi, a good product, and Phase Linear, an interesting product line, usually failed within a few weeks of purchase and had to be returned for repair. SO, hopefully there will be a nice set of products coming out from them soon, and yes, changing a component or two in the signal path DOES change the "sound" as noted above. This, I suppose, is why the dedication in the early days to only using the "best of the best" parts was Mr. Johnson's way of making sure each of his items were produced exactly as he designed them. Designs change, and components change, but as I posted, there are only so many paths to glory in tube-based consumer audio. And yes, there were some items from them that were not as well done as others. We can only hope that all their future products will be as good as they can be once again. And, it remains a business, so must be profitable at the end of the day to endure, right? Cheers! |
@ivanj; Is this true of current era ARC such as my Ref 150 SE too? IIRC, an arcing tube will take out one resistor that is fairly easy to replace. It is also my understanding that ARC refuses to resort to fail-safe protection based on their belief that all such devices degrade sound quality. From what I can see when I remove the cover to check bias, the circuit boards are high quality single layer and the circuit is fairly simple and the paths are short-so much so that getting access to the bias pots is not easy due to the tubes being so close. I already addressed the questionable path McIntosh has taken above. Your comments don't surprise me in the least. I am cautiously optimistic that the new ownership will be a good thing for the future of ARC. I am a former bicycle racer that still eats and breathes all things cycling. For every Pinarello remaining at the forefront of engineering innovation, there are four Masi's that have completely sold out their once iconic status for the sake of mass-marketing and peddling mediocrity, |
richopp- Interesting. We repair and upgrade both ARC and Mc based on 40+ years of experience. Since Mc has gone to hybrids and multilayer circuit boards, they have become less reliable and much more difficult to repair. For example, in recent integrateds and amps using the VT 120-150 series valves, if the valve fails it can often put a pulse through the driver that is 5x more voltage than it can handle causing it to fail. It can get worse with multi-layer boards. Hence a costly repair replacing the driver and adding a protection diode if the customer wishes. Sometimes the board traces melt in addition. Then the real fun starts.... MC could but do not protect the SS drivers with a $0.05 diode per valve- simple, no? - bad engineering design leaving out this textbook protection. Just my $0.05. |
Every company that’s ever produced a product for sale has had hit or misses.No, many companies never succeed in making a "hit". But perhaps we are talking past each other. I am talking about iconic stand-the-test-of-time products. There are countless companies that have risen to the top and then disappeared or lost all of their reputation due to changes of ownership or the death of the founder. In fact, it is the natural course of things and the exceptions are few and far between. I think this is a now a pivotal moment for ARC. IMHO, the loss of Ward Fiebiger was huge and since his death, the product launches have been more about style rather than innovation. Saying that "amplifier design is limited to only so many circuit designs and is not rocket science" ignores the fact that incremental changes in parts quality continue to occur. With each change in parts, there is an art to coaxing out the best possible sound. It takes a very rare corporate identity or corporate leader to make that pursuit the absolute number one priority. ARC's prices have always been high but not at the crazy high level of some other product lines. If it is true that ARC has not been very profitable lately, it would be understandable given the level of hand assembly and QC right here in the USA by mostly long-standing employees. |
fsonicsmith519 Every company that’s ever produced a product for sale has had hit or misses. At the end of the day, it’s about what one like or dislikes. I do have McIntosh and Audio Research products. I love the McIntosh Current tuners and there old MC2105 solid state from 1977-78 but I do love the Audio Research amplifier and preamplifier if it is tube. Example; I do own an Audio Research Reference 250SE Monoblock amplifiers and a McIntosh MR85 Tuner. Some companies do things better than others. |
There's so much utter horse shite spread on this Board (in general) and in this thread in particular that it makes my head explode. In order to not offend specific people, I will not cite examples. I do agree that McIntosh has diluted it's brand and thank goodness ARC won't be exposed to the same. ARC from day one has been a hit and miss company, some great products and some duds. In the last ten years things had improved. Hopefully that will continue. |
Remember, when McIntosh entered into the Best Buy market (produce and sell as many products as possible), Their value and reliability has gone down quite a bit. Plenty of forums on this, especially with the MC601 Monoblock amplifiers. Trying to convince Audio Research to mass produce could diminish reliability and sound quality that Audio Research stood for. I could be wrong but that’s what I found out from a friend of mine who is a manager for the Magnolia section. Let’s test your memory. Remember Circuit City with the Onkyo and Onkyo Integra line. To get the Grand Integra you had to special order it from Japan. |
Here’s hoping for a huge ARC Clearance Sale!!! Consolidation of the marketplace is happening before our ears. Retailers closing; manufacturers going online-direct, their reps being leapfrogged; FEDEX drivers herniated by daily deliveries and pickups of 80lb amps and 200lb+ speakers. The laws of evolution apply even to capitalist audiophiles—the strong buy out the weak, compromises are made and we consumers will once again adjust and carry on. ARC: This is truly an ironic turn of events. In the 70s, the store owner where I worked swore that Mac had the best design and construction and that, since there is no difference in the sound of amplifiers, ARC was an unnecessary indulgence of the majority of the sales staff that could hear the difference and wanted to sell it. You have not lived until you’ve driven a pair of big Maggies with a Mac 2105 going near clipping! Talk about a can o’nails! Even worse was the owner’s fascination with the same amp driving 4 ESS Heils. Maybe that’s where my tinnitus comes from--I thought it was the Army. We took on the ARC line and did well with it but the controversy over the sound of amps never disappeared. The owner actually DID disappear one day circa 1980, never to be heard from since. |
It's pretty darn obvious that a couple of things are going on here. Many small, successful, quality audio operations have been snapped up by conglomerates over the years. A few of them have subsequently gone independent again, often taken over by some of the original principals or people associated with the original company. As stated, if a conglomerate is willing to part with an asset, it's because it's not (sufficiently) profitable. The reason is no doubt the economy, but also the recent and much less customer-friendly ethos that characterized the brand when under the umbrella of the conglomerate. If ARC is to flourish, it needs to go back to its roots, both technologically in in respect to customer relations. |
I am totally happy about the sale. I don't think I would purchase another ARC product if they stayed with McIntosh. I am more interested in audio quality than a "lifestyle" product. The sale will allow McIntosh to develop more products for the masses like Bose, Klipsch and Marantz - they will be successful in that market. Maybe they will develop McIntosh earbuds. It will allow ARC to get back to basics. |
The dirty little secret is that Audio Research has been not been profitable for some years now! That is why the McIntosh Group was willing to let it go! We here in the USA are now in the worst economic crisis since the 1930's! Nobody needs four and five figure HiFi gear! The Boomers fueled the appearance and rise of the High End. Now we are all getting older and dying off! Younger people with less income and debt burdens are not interested in expensive gear. The failure of companies selling costly gear to attract a broader customer base leaves them vulnerable to economic downturns! |
few add’l comments 1 - arc has indeed incorporated some ss elements into their tube amps and preamps in the past decade plus, most as drivers and cathode followers -- this is due to their desire for a more linear frequency response/transparency and better PRAT than all tube configurations would allow ... their mindset, which i support, is to have the benefits of tubes (holography, smoothness and body to the sound, mild overdrive characteristics) whilst minimizing the demerits (lazy transient response, poor bass control, low damping factor) 2 - the main product arc will no longer service is the 100.2 power amp, as the toshiba bipolar transistor it is based on is NLA... too bad they took this stance... they could have the customer sign a waiver if the amp fails in repair... most of the time, it is power supply caps that go -- very rare for the actual solid state transistor to fail, but under mcintosh management, they have wanted to avoid the liability (would surmise they had at least one case where they got burned fixing a customer unit) 3 - agree that they may want to expand into the digital space... given market trends... we shall see what trent has in mind - we don’t know the funding situation trent and his group is bringing - maybe they have ample funding to take up some r&d 4 - the main issue arc faces i think is that there are very good lower end competitors now, offering excellent quality excellent sounding products at roughly half their prices - most prominently primaluna - arc’s international expansion and success with their legendary brand name has helped keep them solvent making ever more expensive (and still utterly excellent sounding) products, but how long can this persist, especially with a world struggling as it is looking forward |
I don't know the new management, but can only hope it doesn't follow Krell's unfortunate foray into populist production. Its value (as is Krells) is in its history. Continuing production into a niche market hopefully will ensure its company and manufacturing values establish a continuation of its founder's vision.
Vive la difference
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As a former dealer (1973) who knew Mr. Johnson, I can only hope that the values and products he envisioned can be continued/re-instated. Since I have not had the pleasure of purchasing and listening to their newer products--my "newest" piece is an SP-6--I cannot speak to how they compare to the earlier stuff. I can say, without reservation, however, that the SP-3-A-1 and the D-150 were amazing products, and I am sure that there were others after that that improved on them. Let's remember that the circuit designs of tube amps and pre-amps are not exactly rocket science and that there are a very limited number of ways of doing it in commercial audio products sold to the general public for home use. Today, many ARC products have SS components in various areas of the signal path. How that plays into the future of the company is anyone's guess. I can tell you, however, that I am looking to purchase an amp, and a call to AR about one model with the SS areas was met with the following: "We cannot service or repair that product." I realize this is rather rare for them, but my guess is that rather than main circuit boards, etc., this has to do with the SS components. I wish them well. If you knew Mr. Johnson, you knew that he was all serious business and devoted to his craft. He did not make compromises--I remember us discussing the difficulty of getting the face plates manufactured properly. He told me it was much more difficult than getting the electronic parts done as he demanded perfection in every item. That's the kind of person we need running a company like this, and I hope this team realizes this. I wish them (and us) the best! |
Absolutely clearthinker, I also own and have owned several ARC products. This is a bit worrisome as I doubt Trent Suggs has the deep pockets of Mcintosh. Was ARC interfering with Mac sales or was ARC not doing well and Mac decided to bale out? Fremer's article is political rubbish based mostly on liability issues and says nothing of substance. We all love analog but we are in the minority. Mac has started delving into digital technology. If ARC wants to survive it will have to do the same with more than disc players and a DAC. It needs music/video servers and an advanced digital preamp with theater capability. I doubt there are enough of us dyed in the wool audiophiles to keep ARC alive. I thought the Mac/ARC match up would have been a good one. I view Mac as upper Mid Fi. They could have groomed or continued ARC in the Ultra High End market which is substantially different. They should not have been competing with each other. |
Change of ownership can direct change of direction. For ARC I hope not. I have had many ARC pieces. Still use my SP10 in a secondary system. This early two-piece pre remains iconic with lovely sound, perhaps a bit blossomy for current times. My main pre-amp is a Ref 3 and CD8 turns low-density digits into real music like no other I have heard. 50 years is a very good innings in this business. Long may it continue. |
https://www.analogplanet.com/content/mcintosh-group-sells-audio-research-corporation-tws-enterprises-llc
Trent is a really good guy. He has worked for both Sumiko and Magico. I think he will do a great job at the helm of ARC. |