Thanks everyone , keep the conversation going I find attitudes toward preamplifiers in general within some computer audio communities heavily one sided against preamplifiers where no civil debates could take place,.
Are Preamplifier’s Relevant Today or just a Hinderance with Digital Playback ?
I’m just curious,.I know from past experiences using a well designed preamplifier can and will make a difference however the computer audio crowd say different with the use of HQplayer with volume control including multiple filters and adjustments in OS mode using a preamplifier is blasphemy to some of them .
What’s your take on this subject?
Thanks in advance.
What’s your take on this subject?
Thanks in advance.
75 responses Add your response
From the web site of Sound by Singer: The Importance of Preamps Jan 24, 2019 Over the past few years I have become inured to the fashionable belief that Analog Preamps do not add anything to an audio system in a digital world-indeed that in fact they get in the way of the music.Getting used to an idea doesn't make it right and it is high time to call BS on this notion. The source of this unfounded belief appears to be manufacturers of D/A converters who cleverly figured out that one could use a few bits of digital computing to raise and lower volume thereby arguably rendering the line stage superfluos. What a boon to the audiophile,they argued,not only have we removed a potential source of signal degradation and created a more dirct line of communicationbetween the source and the amplifier , we have alsoo saved the end user buckets full of cash which he/she would have spent on a top flight preamp. This would be a compelling argument if any of it were true.But alas it is not.Yes one can raise and lower volume on a dac by wasting a significant number of bits to do so .BUT NO IT DOES NOT SOUND BETTER TO CONNECT A DAC DIRECTLY TO AN AMPLIFIER BYPASSING THE PREAMP ! In fact in every listening test I have conducted removing the preamp from the picture rendered the musical picture less dynamic, less fleshed out and altogeather less realistic than when a high quality preamp was introduced into the picture. One of the leading reviewers in our field whose name we will not mention for obvious reasons dubbed the anti preamp crusade "The Wimpy Wars" in recognition of the deleterious effect which omitting a preamp from the chain created. By the way high Quality does not Necessarily mean high priced . Consider the Backert Rhumba 1.3 tube line stage .$ 3500.00 buys you a lot of sound and improves the performance of any system regardless of how high end the DAC employed may be. |
The long and the short you can then use passive attenuation which is represented by resistance, vs adding via active preamps which can't help themselves but add various flavors of reactance, in so doing distancing you from what is possible.The issue here is cables; with a passive system the cables are uncontrolled and can cause colorations. If the preamp is able to control the effects of the cable (and if it supports AES48 which is the balanced line standard it can) then its very possible to find that a preamp is more neutral than the best passive available. Most digital systems just don't have a good ability to control the interconnect cables (if you drive 30 feet of cable you'll see what I'm talking about) and if you put a passive between the digital source and the power amps you'll exacerbate this issue. I've yet to encounter a passive system as transparent as a good preamp. |
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does not matter if you use analogue or digital front end. You need a preamp with enough current output to handle the dynamic swings. But don't listen to me or anyone else. Try it yourself, go without a preamp and run DAC directly into power amp (assuming you can control output level at some pt). you will find dynamics are compressed, bass is not as good, and sound stage suffers. |
One way or another, a system needs volume control and source-switching (assuming it has more than one source). If you have only one source, and it's digital, you could get away with software volume control only. In my limited experience with it, software volume control seems to compromise SQ compared to a good hardware implementation. At any rate, in between a computer that runs DSP (like HQ Player) and a power amp, there generally needs to be a box with USB/other input (at least) and loudspeaker outputs. How is it a hindrance if that box supports source switching, volume control, IR remote, etc.? Unless you just want to connect powered speakers (or headphones) directly to the computer. But then you need a keyboard, display, mouse/trackpad to control the computer (instead of connecting a "headless" computer to a component audio system). Seems like more of a hindrance than a preamp. |
Totally system dependent. I don't recommend digital volume contrl. It will cut fidelity in most cases. DAC output vs volts needed for full output from your amp help you decide. Speaker sensitivity also comes into play. Some systems need gain from preamps some don't. Active preamps will change the sound. Its up to you whether it is better or worse. |
You just need to match what is called consumer line level which is nominal 310mv RMS to your power amp sensitivity. Whilst CD players boast 2v figures this does not occur, as all the media you can find will be 310mv RMS, so your power amp needs to be close to this too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level The long and the short you can then use passive attenuation which is represented by resistance, vs adding via active preamps which can't help themselves but add various flavors of reactance, in so doing distancing you from what is possible. The benefit is you will hear what your source component can actually do, |
The digital controls must be able to drive the amps you are using. Some may sound very good but overall from my experience with the MSB and the Rockna DACs with digital volume controls, the preamp added much more dynamics, clarity, depth to the soundstage, better separation between vocals and instruments and faster more pronounced bass response. Happy Listening. |
I think if I had a DAC with an integral passive volume control with a remote and low-impedance balanced outputs, I'd might be happy without a preamp. But all the DACs I've owned have not had a volume control (other than digital scaling pre-DAC), have not had a remote to control volume, and have had an output impedance higher than I'd want to drive long interconnects with. |
The overwhelmingm audiophile consensus is still yes to a preamp. In occasional instances where components are perfectly matched it works. But that is rare. There are quite a few folks that have tried it and gone back (stating exactly what Jond said above), a few the were sucessful and stayed with, the vast majority have not tried it as their digital source does not have a volume control. . I have repeatedly researched the topic out of interest as the preamp has been the centerpiece of my systems since the 1970’s. My current Audio Research Reference is a magical component conveying the magic to the amp. |