Affordable SS that sound like Tubes

@audphile1 

I removed the network card, sounds better without it. The Mac goes into the DSD via a very nice USB.

Ive gotten some nice suggestions and I'm doing ok.

As to sound, I can say the trope words, Smooth Warm Rich Musical Deep Real Natural....That actually isn't much help I would think?

How can anyone ever explain....sound? Can't be done in reality.

Thanks

T

Is your mac mini connected to the PS Audio DAC or the DAC is fed via Ethernet cable into its network card?

And I cant explain to you what a nice tube amp sounds like, you will have to hear one yourself and then come up with a SS pre and amp for no more than $3000 which is what my QS’s cost new that sounds as good as that..
 

I owned Rogue ST100 tube amp with Rogue RP1 and RP5 preamps - they sounded different with the same amp. I also owned Audio Research tube preamps. And every model sounded different as well.
I have no idea what your set up sounds like though, and apparently, neither do you. I’d be surprised if anyone can make a valid recommendation. You have people shooting in a dark. 

The mac mini isnt processing anything it is simply a NAS. The streams and or files go through audivana to psaudio dsd to the pre. What about that would suck? Are you saying audivana without any filters sucks, or the DSD Sr. Sucks, or just the mini flow through?. Or just, everything sucks?

And I cant explain to you what a nice tube amp sounds like, you will have to hear one yourself and then come up with a SS pre and amp for no more than $3000 which is what my QS’s cost new that sounds as good as that..

Thank you

T

I am looking for suggestions on affordable SS that sounds as good as Tubes.

Can you define what that means? What type of sound is that from the affordable tube gear that you’re trying to replicate with affordable SS?

Also, streaming using a Mac Mini sucks. If you haven’t experienced a good streaming setup you’re wasting your money on physical media and downloads. I’m making this statement based on personal experience. 

@pindac 

Did you mean psaudio BK1 ?

The Neurochrome Power Amp, with a Pass BK1 Pre-Amp, will be quite a pairing and the combination is something that will not encounter many to surpass it for the same monies outlaid and much much more.

Belles Aria $2500   Tough to beat at that price...

@tonydennison 

Tony, I have a Margules ACRH3 hybrid integrated, it's 100wpc. It sounds fantastic and is very dynamic. Margules is a company from Mexico I had never heard of. Fact is they are one of the oldest makers of both pro and home gear in the world. There are some reviews of some of their pieces out there, most recently by S-file. I have mine in a second system now as I recently bought a Cary SLI80-HS. 

I've been thinking of putting my Margules up for sale, it's just too nice to be hidden away in my man-cave. 

tonydennison

As above- Ayre, Pass Labs or Wells Audio.

Happy Listening!

I've always been curious about PASS, if I could swing a demo, I might consider it.

Pass product sounds great and "tube" like imo and in my experience. Most of not al lPass runs in Class A for the first 10-30 watts, mimicking tube sound (and heat/inefficiency). 

Tube smoothness and musicality with SS detail and impact:

Atma-Sphere Class D. $5400 Killer!

@vonhelmholtz  I use streaming services only to audition music. If I like a record enough to purchase I look DSD or as high a resolution I can find and purchase it. I am a DSD file guy. I look at streaming like someone in the 70's looked at radio.

@tonydennison "..I am looking for suggestions on affordable SS that sounds as good as Tubes."

Aren’t we all. Best of Luck on that.

Plan on spending 5x the cost of your Quicksilver tube amps to try and get closer to "there" with solid state. I say this having an upgraded true Class-A 50w SS amp sitting here from Pass/Forte’. When you find affordable SS that sounds "as good as tubes", let us know. People have been trying and wishing for this, for decades.

You might fool yourself for a while with a used Firstwatt SIT-3 for a while, if you wanna try. They come up for sale every once in a while from the last try’er.

Any Pass amp, Any Parasound amp designed by John Curl, the Atma-sphere class D amps. 

I second the McIntosh MA252. I have mine sitting next to a Rogue Audio tube amp because I like to go back and forth between the two and sometimes I couldn’t tell you which is which depending on the music. I switched out the input tubes with Mullards and that seems to have made the difference. The only bad part is that the McIntosh is easily punchier in the bass and dynamics so sometimes my tube amp doesn’t look so hot. Yes it’s $4500 but it has a bunch of cool features for the price and 160wpc rated drives my Maggie’s easily. I’d suggest you audition one if you can swing $4500. 

Tubes don’t make it better ,you need to spend $3k used and up 

for say a 25wpc class A pass Labs  which is more power then it sounds .

it here is No good tube amps at $3k . Quality tube amps cost $$. No getting around it . Any quality tube amp has good transformers and chokes like Lundahl, Hashimoto,Tango for example. are C core transformers ,look at all Quality amplifiers , you will not find any Torroidal transformers in a high quality tube amp , Ayon, VAC , CJ, AR ,Luxman, Audio Valve,Jadis and  many more look at custom tube builders Like Radu Tarta, or Thomas Meyer, my point is Audiophile quality products cost $$.

@panzrwagn The MA 252 looks very promising. And used for $2,100.

This is doable just to buy it to demo. I will

read up on it and maybe give it an audition.

Thanx

T

Interesting that you mention his Mac mini.  When Op states that he use to be 100% vinyl, but is now fully digital, but likely relies on a computer for streaming.. something is wrong with my understanding of the situation.

@vonhelmholtz  No, I think you have a perfect understanding of the situation. 

Opposing all S.S. design to all tubes design or vice versa is ignorance of the two most important factors in audio which are not analog versus digital , but ACCOUSTIC/psycho-acoustic first and last components synergy...

The rest is prejudices....And some like to stir the prejudices pot...

@soix 

Thanks for taking the time to explain.  My fault in that I should have read a bit more carefully.

Interesting that you mention his Mac mini.  When Op states that he use to be 100% vinyl, but is now fully digital, but likely relies on a computer for streaming.. something is wrong with my understanding of the situation.  This motivated me to make my last post.

Also, rather than “as good as tubes”, maybe you could let us know what specific audio characteristics would constitute “as good as tubes”.

@vonhelmholtz As the OP mentioned he has no intention of replacing his prized tube electronics.  This is more of a rhetorical question to make us all spin our wheels for no reason whatsoever.  He just wants to stroke his own ego and make the point that his QS electronics offer very good value for the price and likely can’t be beat by SS at a similar price.  That’s it.   This is a fool’s errand prompted by a guy who’s admittedly not looking for a real answer and just looking for an ego rush, so don’t waste your time any further because it’s not worth it.  What he should be focusing on rather than wasting our time here is replacing his ancient Mac Mini with a decent streamer from this decade. 

Don't know what your budget is but a Wells Audio Majestic integrated might do the trick:

List is 4K.  If you contact Mike Wells he may be able to send you a demo unit to try at home. 

http://www.wellsaudio.com/majestic

The McIntosh MA-252 Hybrid Integrated Amp. For $4500 It has a classic 12AX7/12AT7 based tube preamp with a very decent phono stage and a 100W/Ch 8 Ohm / 160W/Ch 4 Ohm Class AB amp. It is built like a tank and looks very much the classic McIntosh piece it is. If that's not enough power, the MA-352 doubles the output to 200/320 W/Ch, and the MA-12000 takes it up to 320 W/Ch. 

I could wax rhapsodic about ancient and essentially unavailable audio components (An Audio Research SP3-A1 or APT Holman preamp and the Nelson Pass designed 100W/Ch Adcom 5500 MOSFET pairing comes to mind - I own the APT/Adcom pair), and beyond the SQ of the MA-252, which is very much in line with your ask, there's a lot of peace of mind that comes from a new amp from a known manufacturer that will stand behind their product for decades. 

Take any SS amp and hang an 8 ohm resistor on the outputs. Voila! Tube-like sound as you lower the damping factor!

@alvinnir2

QS AT7 pre with RCA Black Plates sounds quite amazing.

@gregdude 

Have you checked mike sanders for kt120?

You should consider Sugden. I think you can find an A21 integrated in your price range

@tonydennison 

What if you rephrase your original post?

When you look at my virtual system, what can I do, short of buying a tube power amplifier, to get more of a tube like musical experience?  My budget for such a change is $xxxx.

Also, rather than “as good as tubes”, maybe you could let us know what specific audio characteristics would constitute “as good as tubes”.  I mention all of this because there are probably many aspects of your system that could be upgraded to move you closer to your goal.  My digital was greatly improved with changes in streamer and DAC.  I am a believer in hybrid systems and for me it is a hybrid integrated amplifier.

I have Quicksilver Mid Monos and Love them. Can't see ever selling them. I use a Conrad Johnson LS17 Preamp with them. I also use a Forte Class A SS amp ( Nelson Pass Design) in a second system and although  it doesn't sound like tubes, I could easily live with it. Bought it for a song.

Not looking to hijack this thread but is there any preamp worth considering as an upgrade to my CJ LS17 that mates well with the Mid Monos. Just Asking

What about the Kinki Studio Choco integrated? Haven’t yet heard it myself, but it’s often reviewed to have a SET amp richness and nuance while still maintaining authority and clarity. Extremely well built for the price - great QC:

https://www.kinki-studio.com/copy-of-home

https://youtu.be/rSJTNrbA-uw

Your claim express a generalization and prejudice not clear thinking...

First :

All productions in amplifier from Sansui extend 67 years with very different period of production...Only a false reasonning  will conflate all these years of production  as the same mediocre  quality...

Second : All there is to do in an amplifier is not about materials but also design and the design GOAL ...The question of the OP was about the possible existence at affordable price  of an  S.S. sounding as tube... Sansui was one of the few companies which tried to emulate tube amplification with S.S. design and this was done  OFFICIALLY and succeeded in a public contest for all ears to listen  with their top tube tube amplifier beside their S.S. model IN PUBLIC ... Is this question of the OP  a true sincere question or just a trolling line ? I dont know but i answered to it specifically ...

Third : i just tried to upgrade my AKG K340 headphone by replacing my Sansui alpha by one of the most acclaimed amplifier in the last decade in the world, no negative reviews for this tube amplifier ... It takes few minutes of listenings to keep the Sansui with his headphone out over a dedicated amplification one of the most acclaimed one ...

There is not even a contest possible on any acoustic factor, not ONE...Dynamic. transients, timbre, holography , soundstage , out of the head projection impression or reproduction of recording acoustic etc

Four :

Why ?

Because ignorant with prejudices in audio , fetichists of their contemporary  brand ignore SYNERGY they ignore that synergy matter, even over the exact  decade date  of the design production they ignore not only Vintage past flagships which for the best of them are not far off the most advanced one of today, and if we take into account synergy may rival them and even beat them completely as in my experience comparing tube of today with S.S. design of the past  24 hours ago ...

Instead of posting 3 lines prejudicial posts inform yourself...😁

The best headphone i ever tried compete with the highest top headphone of today and was designed 45 years ago... I will not explain why here...

I will not speak about sound quality/ price ratio because it has nothing to do with the question : is some TOP Sansui good amplification ?

In japan these  Sansui alpha amplifier are described are TOP amplification and sold at very high price in the used market... They are a steal for those who are not brainwashed consumers of audio reviews where they sell anything new as the best ever especially if it cost 20,000 bucks... This top Sansui can be bought few thousands... i bought mine a more affordable one with the same basic design 300 bucks... I smile when you sleep paying big money for your fetish of today ... And i dont need a  tube amplification ... My Sansui sound more tube like with details and fluidity than anything i heard including the last tube amp i bought yesterday and return in the same day ...SYNERGY MATTER... It is second most important factor in audio AFTER ACOUSTIC... Not price tag nor audio reviews articles...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa2Y95eQjNA&list=PLnQJF3Qi_4_A5BFgnV1w5wNNfnks3u0oL&index=55&t=618s

Is a Pass XA-25 affordable? I use one alternated (mood swings) with a tube amp. Also, Sansui amps were at best mediocre back in the day, and compared to even the least expensive integrated these days a comparison is laughable.

@newbee

DITTO!

This isn't exactly on topic but... Recently heard Anthem gear with and without room correction turned on. The sound was pretty darn good. 

I've been suffering from a bit of tube replacement anxiety, and thus weighing my options. My amp uses kt120's and they're as rare as hens teeth at the moment. So, yeah I've auditioned some SS gear but, nothing is really the same as tubes

Look into a hybrid integrated amp. The cayin h80a is class A, dual mono and has 2 pre amp tubes. Very well built, sounds great and could be had in the 2k range used. Tube rolling is east because you only have the 2 pre amp tubes to roll and you can experiment all you want. 
 

Good luck! 

@tonydennison - I have an xA25, but think the First watt sit 3, with a tube front end sounds the best with my Cornwall lV’s.

Pass XA-25 is certainly affordable, but I can't it tops what I have. It is quite extraordinary especially with my heresy's. 

I would suspect it is as you say to Sansui.

Is a Pass XA-25 affordable? I use one alternated (mood swings) with a tube amp. Also, Sansui amps were at best mediocre back in the day, and compared to even the least expensive integrated these days a comparison is laughable.

Here is a modern company who understands great tube products and has a number of interesting solutions:   https://www.canor-audio.com/reviews

@gregdude 

Yeah, Im not going anywhere. Im sticking w/QS Monos and pre.

Its just I hear all these people saying SS is as good as Tube....And I don't believe it. So I pose the question for a SS to compete w/ my $2,600 of QS...and I still don't see it, even paying the $20,000, $30,000, or more,  for an SS set that can compete.

Although I may be adding a QS headphone amp. 😆

https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-aegir-power-amplifier

I have this amp for reserve.

Overall it is a very nice value.

Thomas

I will vote for Used Plinius Sa100 and Pass lab XA25.

First Watt… maybe a used J-2

In answer to the OP's question, does anyone in this forum think that a hybrid integrated amp  - like the McIntosh, Prima Luna or Pathos  hybrids - addresses this issue?

Trade the mid monos and pre for the qs integrated. Why mess with a winning formula. 

You seem very happy with your Quicksilver electronics and are unlikely to improve upon them with solid state at your price point.  If I were you I’d focus on getting a good streamer rather than that outdated Mac Mini that’s doing you no favors whatsoever.

@audioman58

I get that. I remember hearing great Sansui equipment when I was in college in the 70’s before I discovered / could afford high end equipment. Then over the ensuing fifty years equipment has become better and better. But it is hard to argue because in 1973 I was just too stoned to be sure if it was the equipment or my state of mind.

I was responding to Sansui Alpha competing with todays much better parts technologies it cannot compete  ,but it was a very good product in its day .