When I first started spinning again I purchased a REGA P3 and after a few cartridges and Groove Tracer upgrades I found the Dynavector 10X5 Rega combo to be very lively and made me want to listen a lot. Then I felt I needed more refinement in sound so I tried a few different tables from Pro-Ject and Thornes. Finally I purchased a J.A Michell Gyro SE and everything really fell into place...I love the way my system sounds right now and I just buy vinyl and enjoy listening. Until..who knows. :-)
Matt M
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Matt, thanks for sharing with us your evolution in analog equipment. We can define all Dynavector cartridges in two words: dynamic and alive! |
What is "perfect speed stability"? It's the holy grail for turntables, because that is first of all what a turntable needs to do, and none that I know of succeed. That said, I am familiar with the Anvil, and if I were to be at all interested in a belt-drive type, that one seems to give a lot of bang for the buck. Good choice. Other than that, I am not sure what this thread is about. Did you want various responders to promote their particular vinyl set-up, uber alles?
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lewm, thanks for sending the message. "Perfect speed stability" means PERFECT SPEED STABILITY or the ability of a particular turntable to rotate at 331/3 rpm, to play a LP, without any deviation. Think of a bearing that has, by far, the lowest friction of any turntable made, from my experience. Mine took 7 minutes to stop from 331/3 to zero. Add a very special PS that has the ability to "drive" the normal 115 v synchronous motor at a half voltage, about 60V, to reduce motor stress + the ability to provide each field coil of the synchronous motor with its individual power supply, with one shifted the necessary 90 degrees, and you have a "perfect speed stability", checked with my laboratory instruments. For other information please ask the manufacturer. We (for the people living in the US and many other Countries and me, that live in Brazil) live in a healthy democracy.If you are not comfortable with this thread, please "unfollow" it. I'm not here asking Audiogon members to promote anything, just to share, if they want, your toughs and feelings about their analog systems. |
ultima
"perfect speed stability", checked with my laboratory instruments.
The Anvil does seem to buck the trend in the belt drive's
found today.
Would care to share your method of confirming
its "perfect speed stability"
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ultima "perfect speed stability", checked with my laboratory instruments. The Anvil does seem to buck the trend in the belt drive's found today. Would care to share your method of confirming its "perfect speed stability" |
Let me chime in here before things go sideways. Ultima 700 asked if I would mind a consumer review, which of course I agreed to. I had know idea what the result would be until it was published. Furthermore, I can only produce these in limited numbers so I am never a threat to my competitors, nor is this a get rich endeaver for me. As much as possible I try to be an honest broker for my ideas. I was quite nervous shipping the table to 700. I was aware of his extensive experience and any flaws on my end would potentially be magnified through his lens. Having said that I designed my tuntable to have the punch of an idler, the stability of a direct drive and the quiet of a belt drive. Lewm, as far as stability is concerned it is not unusual for my decks to measure .01 W&F, bettering some direct drives. This figure was confirmed by Michael Fremer on one of the worst turntables I ever produced. Frankly, I am much less concerned about W&F as I used to be as there are several other paremeters that influence sound to a FAR greater degree. Regarding value there is nothing that can compete with my turntable at anywhere near the price. I have inserted my table into systems with 15K decks and handily outpointed them It isnt unusual for the Anvil to be superior in every way from deep bass though treble. If you look at my materials and engineering choices, not to mention ease of set up ( for example on the fly adjustments to go between different null point geometries in seconds ) you can see that "on paper" it is a rather unique design. There is some secret sauce in the design too. I have pretty much flown under the radar for about 8 years but figured this might be an opportunity to tell enthusiasts what I REALLY think, LOL.
Regards,
Bruce
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totem395, thanks for sending the message. As I told before, I learned with my fellow colleagues from Japan, in special engineers from Matsushita and Tokyo Shibaura (Toshiba) how to measure main parameters in turntables. I will not going deeply here, but I use high reliable Meguro Instruments along with 100% perfectly centered LPs specially made for that companies, all of them made in Japan.
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Again, I feel wow and flutter and drift contribution to excellent sound isnt as great as many believe, provided the figures are in a reasonably low range. Shopping for a table with the goal of lowest wow as the main criteria overshadows other important aspects. |
Dear @13blm: Perfect speed stability is an " elusive " term. A TT can run at 33.332 rpm with perfect stability ( all the time with out minute speed changes. ) and I can be sure that I least me can't detect it from 33.333 rpm.
So, as important as is TT speed stability I agree with you that are other characteristics that can have more " weigth " in a TT design like: noise and vibratios isolation of the platter, plinth and arm board through a well damping design to impede that all those kind of " distortions " can have any influence in the cartridge/tonearm combo. For me these is the real enemy or punisher of what the cartridge is picking-up from the LP grooves.
That zero tolerance fully isolation must be not only at measured macro levels but at micro levels that is where the stylus tip/cantilever works.
Speed stability per se can't define the TT quality overall performance inside some limits.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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Ultima, very very interesting. I´m familiar with the Trans-Fi arm since its first appearance, late 2008. I´m also experienced both maglev platter and feet with outstanding results. Now the Anvil TT with its "
A/C motor with innovative pulley design and thread drive" is something very special too.
Many thanks for letting me know that new High-End deck.
Cheers,
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harold- , thank you very much for your message and kind words. I just posted a photo of my analog set in my profile. Cheers! |
I was not in any way denigrating the Anvil turntable. I was completely sincere in mentioning that I have noticed the Anvil in the past, and, based only on its apparent build quality and design elements, I definitely place it very high among the very few belt-drive turntables I would consider buying. And at the price, the Anvil probably cannot be beaten in its category. I was only getting at the idea that no turntable has "perfect" speed stability. (Even .01 W&F is not perfect.) Probably the Anvil is good enough in that area such that speed stability is not a noticeable problem. I also rank the Trans-fi highest among straight line tonearms currently on the market. I just don't want to mess with pumps, etc. I'll stop there, before I talk about cartridges. I am also very happy with what I already own. |
Just want to agree about the Trans-Fi air bearing tonearm. Simply excellent. I own two of them.
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Thanks for hipping me to the TransFi, Terry. Vic just notified me mine will be ready at the end of the month. I feel like a kid waiting on Christmas! |
Ultima, congrats. Your metallic combo TT/TA is very beautiful, and both Anvil and Terminator do justice to each other. Particularly in sound quality.
Excellent !
bdp, I know what you mean. Describes my feelings nine years ago when I ordered a new design linear TA from him. It´s always been Christmas ever since when Vic sends me something :)
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OP, I see you are using Audio Sensibility Impact SE phono cable. I tried that instead of my Jelco phono cable and was disappointed. It smeared and muted detail. It might be worth your while trying the Jelco JAC501 Mogami. |
noromance, thanks for the message. May be system compatibility. Yours came "burned in" from the factory? I've used about all Cardas phono cables but the Impact SE proved to be superior and is beautifully finished. For the rest of System I use 47 Labs OTA cable, including the speakers. Outstanding cable! |
If the straight tracking arm has a lateral tracking mass that is considerably higher than its vertical tracking mass (all air bearing arms do) then the tracking angle distortion will be described by the cantilever of the cartridge as it moves the arm rather than the length of the arm as it is in radial tracking arms.
For this reason unless the cartridge has a very low compliance, a good radial tracking arm will actually have lower tracking angle distortion and a more locked in soundstage.
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The TransFi Terminator is very different than other straight trackers, it's very low mass arm wand being just one such difference. And actually, there is a technical justification for an arm having higher lateral than vertical mass, having to do with the nature of the groove's modulation. There are white papers discussing this fascinating subject. |
It's kind of a Catch-22. Relatively high lateral mass is good for bass accuracy, because low frequencies are largely produced by side to side excursions of the stylus in the groove The high mass provides a stable base for the cartridge to operate. (Dynavector took advantage of this concept in their DV501, 505, and 507 bi-pivoted tonearms.) On the other hand, the high lateral moving mass of an SL tonearm can put a stress on the cantilever, as the stylus traverses the LP surface from out to in. At least, this is the way I understand the mechanics. No free lunch.
But if the SL tonearm bearing has low enough friction, because of employing a really effective air bearing, I would think the problem can be tolerated or tolerable. As most know, there were a few SL tonearms that use a motor to move the carriage (Rabco, Goldmund). These have/had a host of other problems. Then there's the Souther that uses gravity, worst solution of all, IMO. |
The TransFi Terminator is very different than other straight
trackers, it's very low mass arm wand being just one such difference.
And actually, there is a technical justification for an arm having
higher lateral than vertical mass, having to do with the nature of the
groove's modulation. There are white papers discussing this fascinating
subject. The issue is that the arm holds the cartridge in locus over the groove so it can do its job. If the vertical tracking mass is sufficient to do that, the lateral tracking mass should be the same. The problem with any arm that has the bearings above the surface of the LP seems best understood by the idea of two people carrying a couch. If on level ground, they hold the same weight, if going up stairs the guy on the bottom has the greater weight. If the stairs are not as steep, the weight he bears decreases. This is why you want the arm bearings to be in the same plane as the LP surface, to minimize tracking pressure variation when bass modulation and warp are present. If you move the bearings to a point above the LP (and many arms do) it becomes more sensitive to warp and bass modulation, decreasing the the tracking force as either appear. Shortening the arm wand causes the arm to be even more sensitive to this effect. |
Keeping the wand short reduces resonances within the arm which typically colours the music. It is probably one of the major influences contributing to the overall sound of a tonearm. Manufacturers of conventional pivoted arms go to great lengths to try to eliminate resonances. They have a hard job!
- Vic
As for warped records, they sound surprisingly good on the Trans-Fi arm.
As for both very low compliance (Entré - 1 MC) and very high compliance (MM) carts, they both fit nicely the Trans-Fi sonically. Distortion in particular is no issue IME.
- Harold
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bdp24,
Which TT are you going to mount the Trans-Fi on? What air source are you going to use?
BTW, just finished listening to "Bidin’ My Time".. what a wonderful record!
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Slaw, I recently got myself a VPI HW-19, the second one I’ve owned. I had an original Mk.1 (with a Mk.2 black platter) in the late 80’s/early 90’s that I was quite happy with, but sold it when I got a Townshend Audio Elite Rock (Mk.2). This HW-19 is a Mk.2 (but with black acrylic top plates, not MDF) with a TNT Mk.3 platter (3/4" aluminum, 1/2" black Delrin/acrylic) and bearing. I have Herbies Tenderfeet and SIMS Navcom Isolators to try in place of springs, and I may make a DIY SAMA motor pod (I have a big ol’ chunk of lead I can use, or maybe a VPI Magic Brick). VPI’s are particularly good for straight-tracking arms, whose considerable mass wreaks havoc on the soft suspensions of light-weight tables as it moves across the record. I got and have been using the Rock specifically because of it’s particularly appropriate design for use with Decca/London cartridges, which I have been using exclusively for decades. The designer/owner of Trans-Fi was until recently himself using a London Reference, and pics of that cartridge on his arm really caught my attention, and aroused my curiosity. I’ll put my Reference on the VPI/Trans-FI, and my Super Gold Mk.7 on the Rock/Zeta. That should make for an interesting comparison! Vic sells an air supply to UK and Euro clients, and provides info on same to N. American users on the website. The design of the arm requires only a low-pressure system, unlike the ET and other air bearing arms. Less noise, no moisture---a big advantage. I have to get over to Music Millennium and pick up Chris’ album on LP. They have the latest Rodney Crowell on LP too. They moved their LP area from the upstairs loft down onto the street-level floor a while back, and every time I go in the LP section is bigger than the time before. Maybe it’s not a fad, but a growing movement! Portland’s a pretty hip city, with a lot of young people wanting to be cool. LP’s are, at least for now, cool. |
bdp and all, I have used the Trans-Fi arm on my VERY soft/sensitive ORACLE DELPHI MKII w/ relatively light spring suspended subchassis with outstanding results in sound quality. Although the mass of the arm´s wand ass´y w/ carrying saddle is about 100 g as it moves across the vinyl, this practically does not affect on anything mechanically not to mention to sound quality.
Actually it is impossible to see any movement of the suspended sub ass´y during wand´s travel across the vinyl surface. Of course, the suspension of an ORACLE must be PERFECTLY balanced. AND the arm as well obviously. This is the wonder of vintage ORACLEs, perfect balance also with a certain modern linear TA .
All that "linear trackers don´t work with light subchassic tables" is woodoo IME since 2008.
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bdp24,
My years of experience with my VPI Mk IV/ET 2.5 ended up being a lesson in several aspects of what has become my foundation of what I perceive as the basis for basic audio system set-up. (The more compliant the plinth, (as in the VPI w/springs,) the more issues I had with the ET.)
(There is some misleading info out there as to what pressure an ET arm uses. Bruce can optimize the end users arm for a wide range of air pressures. This may depend on which iteration of the ET one has, a larger diameter spindle/manifold..etc...) For example, a friend of mine bought the larger diameter spindle but had Bruce optimize the air pressure for his situation at 7psi. In the end, I don't think how one chooses to deal with the pulsing or moisture differs from one design to the other.
I’m not up to date on the recommended air pressure of the Trans-Fi.
Good luck.
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The lower mass of the Trans-Fi vs. the ET does, I’m sure, make a big difference in one’s application.
(BTW, I’m good with supporting the local record store but the difference between $13.00 vs. $23.00, no contest. Using this method, you could buy my moisture/pulsing control method in as much as ten lps purchased through your local store.)
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A fellow audiophile told me I should not consider a TT unles it had on-the-fly vta adjustment. Is it true? |
On-the fly is a nice option, but not a reason for overlooking buying a TT.
After all, if you are seriously thinking about a TT, you should know that this form of music reproduction is not "plug n’ play".
It requires a level of, first.... passion. This passion will lead you to the other obstikals you will encounter, such as isolation, various forms of set-up, record cleaning and so on.
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I don't think there are any turntables (not tonearms) that have on the fly VTA adjustment, but I could be wrong. The Technics, I think can be adjusted at it's base but not on the fly? Mine will have this capability in the near future. |
Thanks for your thoughts slaw and h-n-t-b, as always. The moving mass interacting with a soft suspension that I spoke of was that of the ET’s arm, which is considerably greater than that of the Trans-Fi. Brooks Berdan came up with that mod of his for the Oracle Delphi, of adding mass in a particular location of the tables floating sub-chassis, specifically to keep the suspension’s bounce perfectly vertical, even with the mass of the ET arm (an arm he really liked, and sold a lot of) moving across the LP. By the way, I’ll be trying various isolators in place of the HW-19’s springs, but the table will be on a platform isolated from the top shelf of the equipment rack it sits on with, probably, Townshend Audio Seismic Pods. I have lots of sets of Ingress Engineering roller bearings, which do a great job of isolating in all planes but the vertical, where they instead couple. Can’t have that! Slaw, I now see the method of your madness! LP’s can be had via Amazon for $13? I like to buy local in cause of warps, etc., but for the $10 difference I’ll take the chance! I bought my Beatles and Dylan mono LP boxsets mail order, ’cause they were SO cheap. Oregon doesn’t have State sales tax, but Amazon charges tax to Washington addresses. But the gas to drive into Portland from Vancouver is probably as much as the tax! |
Glad to see that the Anvil is getting some recognition. I have been enjoying my version of Bruce's creation for several years now. Such a versatile table that has allowed me to hear the differences in tonearms and cartridges in my system. I use Anvil magnetic footers below by table, pre, and power amps. I'm looking forward to trying out his newer LP weight. |
@bdp24
Glad to see that your experience of Vic mirrored my own - very positive.
Low pressure compressors are available from Pets&Ponds. I have dealt there three times, three positives. Vic recommends just sufficient pressure to float the wand, a little less than 0.2 psi, but I prefer more pressure, 0.3 to 0.6 psi, which increases clarity. As you see, I use pressure as a tone control.
Enjoy! |
Terry, Vic has experience with his arm and my cartridge, the London Reference, so I’ll be asking him for recommendations and advice. His system’s speakers are an OB design, as are mine, partly---OB/dipole subs, planar speakers. You have the Transfi table too, don’t you? A rim drive, which I haven’t looked into yet. I’ve wanted to try a straight tracker for years, but they (primarily the ET) always seemed too complicated and fiddly for me. The Terminator’s simplicity and low price seduced me! I bought a new (to me) table just for the arm. |
Terry, what is the pressure meter you are using and where can I found one to try. I´m also interested to know what the actual pressure is and its effect on sound.
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I use a blood pressure monitor, calibrated in mm of Hg, also known as a sphygmomanometer. They are available on Amazon - try to get one that is marked down to 10 mm. If you can't find one on-line, I may be able to help with one that is locally sourced.
One psi is about 50 mm Hg, so I run at the bottom of the scale, between 9 mm and 35 mm; mostly 15-30 mm. I also use a precision regulator from Fairchild, model 10224; mine came from Telematic Controls in Alberta.
Surge suppression is a two stage effort downstream. The first is a one gallon jar filled with cotton balls, fed by a plastic tube reaching down from the lid. There are holes in the plastic tube - much like a glass-pack muffler. The second surge tank is just a 5 gallon plastic water jug.
BDP, I don't have the Salvation TT, although I expect they are wonderful. I have a Nottingham Mentor with modern bearing, motor and controller, and a massive aluminum-plywood-aluminum sandwich for a plinth, as a second TT. My primary TT is a DIY air bearing unit with 45 kg cast-iron/graphite platter.
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Terry, there are too many on eBay and Amazon so I really can´t choose the appropriate ones. If you could help me with one, I much appreciate.
As for surge supression, I can experiment that later.
Unfortunately the Salvation deck is no longer available, sure it would be a very special TT.
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OK Harold, I will check with a possible supplier.
The Salvation deck has a new incarnation! Cost is less than $4000, including (1) mag lev (2) air bearing tonearm!!!!!!!!!!
If this isn't the best deal in audio history, I'd like to jump on what is. I (almost) regret doing a DIY air bearing TT.
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Terry, thanks. You can list it on A´gon or eBay or whatever suits you best and I will buy, normal Air Mail will do just fine.
The Salvation incarnation ? ... can´t see anywhere...
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Why is the price of the Anvil turntable so low when performance appears to be high ? |
Wait a minute... Anvil truly is the Salvation incarnation. Oh dear, yes it is !
Hats off to Bruce McDougall !!
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@harold-not-the-barrel
Hello Harold. My supplier is looking for them ... |
@harold-not-the-barrel
Sorry Harold, they are all gone. |
Terry, it´s alright maybe some other time...
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I have acquired another table even better suited to the Terminator than the HW-19 Mk.4 (but with a TNT aluminum/Delrin platter)---a VPI Aries Mk.1. Now I can mount my Helius Silver Omega on the HW-19, while still having my Townshend Elite Rock with Zeta arm. Most tables I've ever had at once! I need another cartridge now, think I'll get a mono. Say terry9 and harold-not-the-barrel, it looks like the Rena 400 pump Vic recommends for U.S. users has been discontinued. What pump do you guys have? |
Hey Terry, I just found an older thread in which you detailed some of your Terminator accessories. Which model HiBlow pump do you use? And did you make your (muffler-like) surge tank, or does a company make the one you describe? Lastly, when you say you use a 2" metal tube with your arm, do you mean between the bottom of the arm housing and your table's arm board? Vic send along a very dense, dark wood mounting tube (solid, with a hole through the center just large enough for the mounting bolt), made for the height of my tables platter above it's arm board (43-44mm). Thanks---Eric. |
