8-10k budget suggestions please

Congrats on your purchase of the Krell.  Keep us posted as you proceed.

Curtdr those q Q acoustic speakers are so musical.

Been to the edge and looked over…

I started out much like you. Spent a small fortune on chasing very expensive difficult to drive speakers with with very powerful solid state amps.

I have come full circle. Non-reactive full range speakers with 3.5 watts of SET tube power.
 

I still have my pricey solid state, Levinson Monos and pre with 802D3s—it’s gathering dust  

I did try the “in between” route with push pull tube amps. To meet that seemed like the worst of both worlds, not the best….SET or just stick with solid state.

Again, nonreactive full range speakers are imperative.  These speakers almost all have a hump in the upper mid range. Sometimes a small circuit is used as a notch filter to tame this. I have had much better results with minimal digital EQ in Roon. (Side note…do not try to boost the bass with digital EQ.) I also find the use of a very fast subwoofer critical  with these speakers. Placement is also very sensitive.  
 

I am personally running the Elekit 8900 with amorphous output transformers and v caps, 2A3 tubes with 12bh7 drivers and zero NFB. Denefrips Terminator DAC, Lii Audio Speakers, a pair of REL tx7 subs.
 

3.5 watts of heaven! 

@laaudionut man youre a great writer. I do agree with you. I too have been on that McMarrygoround and I agree… Mcintosh is syrupy flat and somehow bright all at the same time… but they sure are pretty. That being said maybe CODA would work nicely for him? The integrated is in the price range and you can get it biased in class A up to 20 watts and a/b up until 200 i think? Or maybe a used pass labs Int-60?

B+W 804's are efficient enough to use well with tube amplifiers.  I have Naim, solid state, Vincent pre / power, hybrid and Cayin tube amps. Naim is used for TV, Vincent is in my workshop, the Cayin gets played 3 hours a day. 

IMO, the combo of B&W + Krell will leave you with bleeding ears.

 I am in the sell the B&W’s camp, get Tekton Double Impacts, Schiit Yggdrasil, Freya+, a pair of Aegirs and a used Innuos Zen MkIII.

You’ll have wonderful SQ and stay within budget.

the combo of B&W + Krell will leave you with bleeding ears

i would have to agree... this was also my reaction... but we all hear differently, and perhaps the op has an uber smooth sounding source ....

Ok you can get separated for this amount of money.

I WOULD get a Holo Serene preamp…It is the best preamp for 3200 bucks in the world.

Then I would get a belles audio signature amplifier from John Rutan for like 5k.

DAC would be Holo Spring 3 KTE.

john Is at Audio Connect and sells B&W and knows their synergy.

your cables are probably trash too get DH labs 10 gauge speaker cables.

You bought a good enough  amp here is where the fun or the frustration  begins. As you build a system with higher end gear you will find things that are not right. Deciding  which piece is the under preforming  one can be the hard part. The cabling  the source the speakers the power into your room. The set up or the music quality.  On a general basis the equipment  in total is a third of your music the room and setup are another third and the final third is the recording. 

@asmithkash I am sure the Krell would be just as good and also the Hegel.

I am a sucker for a class A (J. Curl) designed amp.  The Halo Hint 6 really has a lot to offer.  You can adjust the subwoofer if need be from the front panel. Plenty of inputs and gobs of reserve (Big caps) power.  The dynamics are great because of this. I noticed it went up $900 since I got mine now at $3,900 at Crutchfield.  Parasound makes some nice power amps too! Then just get whatever pre-amp you like....if your speakers are bright you could go to tubes.  I guess it is all personal choice.  Do you live near Chicago? I would audition system for you.

retiredfarmer

you are definitely right about the mix of fun and frustration.  i will build around this amp.  last nigh listening to my speakers with jus the reciever and tv I'm starting to understand what people are saying about bright with the B&W  It will be interesting to see what the krell does to the system!  

alerrico

thank you so much for the offer but I'm all the way down in TX.  Gonna take a trip to Austin and then Houston to go hear some great systems!

I'll let you guys know what the krell sounds like when i get it

+1 @jeffreyw 

OP-

"I think you should give listen to the modern-day B&W diamond series. When auditioning, I compared 802D3 to Paradigm and Kef Reference. The B&Ws were the warmest of all."

Agree. I own the B&W 803 D3s and they sound wonderful to me.

B&W and Krell should sound sublime.

Enjoy!

I have heard the new B&W's are great!

You probably could run the 804s with a push pull tube amp. I wouldn’t. I prefer solid-state over push pull tube amps. Don’t confuse the loose bass of a tube amp losing control of the speaker with tube magic. It isn’t. The real magic in tube amps is single ended triode paired with the right speaker. See my prior post. My 802D3s have got pretty good sensitivity. But, Impedance curve and phase angle are horrific! Impedance drops below 2 ohms at certain frequencies. Despite their relatively good sensitivity, they are a very difficult load for any amplifier. You don’t want to run those with a single ended 3 watt amplifier.

Search enough and you will find that many like me that have been up to the edge with systems approaching $100,000 chasing the dragon and then discover what we’ve been looking for all along was hiding under our nose. We were afraid of the flea watt moniker.  Again, the rest of the equipment is imperative. Especially the speakers and EQ.  No exceptions.

We’re all different. Maybe you wouldn’t like it. But I and many others wish we had gone that route first.  More enjoyment at a fraction of the cost. What’s not to like?

@b737max  Agree! I think OP should seriously consider SS amps that double output into 8/4/2 ohms.

My Vincent hybrid SP-331 is 150W/ch/8 ohms and 300W/ch/4 ohms and it's almost not enough current. I'm considering bi-amping looking forward.

yeah im hoping the Krell is plenty.  They have always been known for their power I believe

I hope I am wrong for the sake of your excitement, but a Krell amp is one of the last amps I would have paired with B&W. I know most of them to be very forward and analytical, and you needed something to tame the same characteristics of your speakers. Try not to let the, "new smell"  of the amp cloud your ability to listen critically once the pairing is made...

Krell will have no problem driving those speakers. Will sound great! Good source like a Denafrips DAC would be next. I like B&W speakers, but they are very unforgiving of your source. I’m a huge believer in empirical numbers and data… They are very important and a good guide, but somethings numbers just can’t measure. The most powerful audio processor ever made is between your ears. No oscilloscope, multi meter or analytical software can come close to measuring what’s going on there. I love the audio science review guys, but the best topping DAC just can’t compare with my terminator. tried one and sent it back. If you ever get the upgrade bug or tire of your current system, consider an SET as mentioned above before you start blowing big bucks. Enjoy!

… Also, don’t be afraid of a little bit of digital EQ through Roon or such.
Quick and dirty. Download an audio analyzer app on your phone. Set your speakers up. (Do a little research on speaker placement and tow in). Stream some pink noise through the system. From seating position look for any obvious frequency peaks/dips on your app. Adjust toe in and placing to smooth. Then, smooth remaining peaks with digital EQ. Don’t try for completely flat, no more than -2 to-3dB digital EQ. Don’t try to flatten every little tiny peak you see. Leave them alone. Just the big ones. Less is more. I would leave dips alone with EQ. Instead, fine-tune the placement. Don’t get too uptight about it though. Adjust and fine-tune focus and staging by ear. Moving your seat back-and-forth just a few inches can have a dramatic effect. You could also experiment with one speaker at a time measuring a meter away. And then at seating position. Just need to get in the ball park then let your brain adjust a few weeks and it will do the rest! Don’t stress over this crap too much. Have fun with it!

@laaudionut The new Duo XD amps are warm and very smooth.

@asmithkash My Krell K-300i integrated drove a difficult to drive Thiel CS3.7 nicely, not all the amps I tried it with drove them well. The Thiel should be more difficult to drive than the B&W.

Transparent cables are what I use with my Lumin/Gryphon/804 system. My 804s are the latest version and measure comparatively poorly AND present a tougher load to the amplifier than your 804s, yet they were my choice for my tastes/room/budget etc. Auditioned lots of other speakers like Sonus Faber Totem Focal Spendor etc. Don't let other people tell you that your 804s are going to be a weak link, there are too many people in the hobby who love to tell others what kind of sonic profile is ideal. That Krell is going to be a fantastic match for your 804s, and yes buy good cables, and a good power conditioner (I use a Puritan PSM156), clean power is a must if you want the best out of all the upgrading you're doing. 

kairosman

definitely getting cables and a power conditioner.  I'll check out the puritan.

b737max

that is a definite also!  Is there a best app to download?  a little eq and room tx should do the trick!

I've never listened to B&W speakers, but it seems lots of people here are not very fond of them. You may have a nostalgic attachment to them? If the speakers are not that great, no matter how much you spend, they will never live up to the potential of the amp...I would go and audition other speakers to gauge if your speakers are worthy if a $6K+ amp.

Well I get the Krell this week!  I'll let you guys know what I think when it gets warmed up.  

How do you guys do your room eq?

Congratulations on the big step to krell!   I'm always turned off when someone slams one brand then follows up with recommendations of what they have.  The early b&w was voiced in that more traditional British sound that needed proper components to come alive. I expect the krell gear will 'wake them up ' personally I would recommend getting to know this new system b4 spending another ndime

 Playing with roe in and other placement options will make as much difference as cables.  Enjoy 

Alright boys and girls, got the Krell last night.  Stayed up a little too long, drank a little too much for a Thursday.  Already really enjoying it.  after about two hours of warm up the things I noticed right away were the soundstage was much bigger, better separation of instruments, and I believe what people call "fleshed out"   Just seemed more like the band was in the room.  I think that is correct.  I'll be listening again tonight after leaving it on since I got it.  Last night I was just listening through Blue tooth on my phone streaming Tidal.  Is this how everyone is listening?

Should I look at getting a power cord?

Glad to hear you are enjoying the Krell and that it has met your expectations as an upgrade. 

I believe the next step is to improve your source with a streamer for Tidal. 

on it!  probably look at used lumin, something around 1k

Ok, if you were listening through your phone using bluetooth, then you are in for a treat… that is about the worse possible combination… OK, better than MP3… or a transistor radio. You need to be streaming through a connected device… so Tidal… or better yet Qobuz is directly received by a streamer… Lumin is a good one. You want to use your phone or iPad as a controller… not the receiver / streaming device. 

Get an Ifi Zen Stream.

One option for those reading can be Lyngdorf Tdai 3400. The convenience I think is worth the price of admission

well the Krell has a streamer built in so I'm not really using my phone as the connected device, 

BUT I believe that getting a stand alone streamer should step-up the game.  Like I said I'm a newbie soooooooo need help on this one.  How much would I have to spend to better the built-in streamer, also, how do I optimize the one I have?

The Lyngdorf is an amplifier,  I'm gonna stick with the Krell lol

Lumin has great streamers at many price points. I have had the D2, T2, and now X1. You will be in for a treat moving from bluetooth to a dedicated streamer. You could get the U2 mini, which streams only, and does not have an internal DAC.  You would then use the DAC in the Krell.

STOP!

don’t waste hard earned cash on anything less than separates, and a minimum of 250-300WPC!

THEY NEED SOME OOOMPH !

take a little more time, build your rat hole stash, and reward yourself.

don’t settle for a 150W receiver, you will clip it!

don’t cheat yourself, you may have to grab a dooney and bourke purse and wallet for the Mrs.. it’s worth it, you get an amazing system, and the wife will allow it because you thought of her first!

WIN.  WIN. !!

It's really a shame how many HT receivers sound really thin and terrible. Anthem and Arcam however are pretty good. Not a fan of Marantz though many here will defend it.

My current setup uses a Luxman integrated with an Anthem MRX receiver and sounds pretty good.

Lol some of the responses are Crazy.  Agree, that HR receivers are thin, also noisy compared to the Krell.  Noise is one of those things you don't know you hear until you don't.

bwguy,  That's what I'm talking about, gonna look for a used U2 right now.  Thank you for your help

Btw,

Thanks for everyone's help.  The Krell is simply awesome!  I love it.

Great to hear.

OP- Krell IS awesome. So is B&W. Trust your own ears. Ignore the haters.

The comments about the combination of Krell + B&W being a match made in hell, I think it is more to the room and also the amp or speaker model. I used to have Krell KAV-300i driving B&W CDM 1SE back in the day, more than a decade ago and it wasn’t that bad. As a matter of fact it’s rather good. The exemplary traits of the Krell are a big, bold and dynamic delivery with deep punchy bass. The bass of the Krell is really something special, it hits hard with raw energy and power. With other amps the bass sounds like a soft thud in comparison, more subdued with reduced kick and dynamics. Thick carpet/rug and proper speaker placement will also help tame the brightness in the room.

The OP did not reveal the Krell amp model which he owns yet though. If it’s the KAV-400xi I heard it’s warmer sounding and more neutral.

Hey guys it's the k300i.  It really doesn't seem bright at all.  I have more dampening comming. Now I wanted to ask about this issue

I contacted GIK, did their room module, sent in pics.  My room is 15 x 13 x 9

They recommended like two grand of absorption and zero diffusion. Is that normal?

golden rule for krell amps for smooth natural 2 channel sonics... avoid any model with a 'v’ in it like the plague

we  are a Krel, parasound and Hegel dealers

IF YOU CAN GET A KRELL K300 I FOR THAT PRICE BUY IT THE K300I IS AWESOME

Dave and treoy

audio intellect nj

krell, hegel and Parasound dealers

Yeah i Love it!  

audiotroy,

should i upgrade the streamer?  also the manual in the krell says plug it into the wall.  Do you guys use any conditioning with yours?