One technical point on the Plink / nagra link between the Playback streamer and the Nagra DAC. It’s not 100% compatible out of the box, a tweak needs to be implemented. Just saying this to manage expectations and to correct the record (if you read the excellent Hifi Advice review of the streamer, the reviewer says that’s it’s perfectly compatible, which isn’t quite true)
It wasn’t clear to me that the proprietary link was significantly better than AES, using my preferred reference level aes cable. The main advantage with the proprietary link is, I was able to get great sound without investing in a multi thousand dollar digital cable…the proprietary cable is “free” with the streamer.
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@mdalton
Yes. I have mostly declared victory and moved on, haven't tried/auditioned a streamer in the 2 years since this post first started. Only reason I was more than interested in the Playback Design streamer is that it uses a proprietary P-LINK (called Nagra Link) connection instead of USB that PD and Nagra share.
@adasdad
Agreed. AG didn't always used to be like this. It was lot more respectful and polite, I don't why the audiophile culture here has degraded to this level in the past few years. I know quite a few AG people have moved on to WhatsBestForum because of the tone and conduct in this forum.
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...playing SXM. Forcing me to listen to that loudly has to go against the Geneva Convention.
64 kb/s I believe- I agree- it's horrendous and it hurts my ears as well.
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@audphile1
Thank you my friend. I love this hobby, and I know you do too.
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I began streaming two and a half years ago. One of the things I notice about listening to digital is that the digital glare or edgy highs always forced me to turn down the volume. Now I’m not talking about listening levels that drives everyone out of the house. I mean my normal listening levels that can make you feel the bass but not head splitting- analog music that is loud but not so loud to make groove noise annoyingly loud.
So as I have improved the sound of digital streaming through switches, cables and DACs, I find that I can turn up the volume on songs that in the past I would have to play at lower levels to avoid that cringing glare. I see that as a measurable parameter. I find now that I can play just about any streaming digital song as loud as I want. (Ok, not including the point where my wife objects.)
Yes, I am one of those "touchy sensitive" audiophiles that doesn’t like to crank up their car stereo system- especially if playing SXM. Forcing me to listen to that loudly has to go against the Geneva Convention. :)
Keep in mind that a resolving and open stereo system has the downside to making things like digital glare very apparent.
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Hello mclinnguy,
I picked the K50 for its high level USB output as well as having multiple player and server app options. The Antipodes allows the use of Roon, Squeeze, HDplayer (with subscription) and a couple of others. I also see the logic in their multiple processor strategy. I'm a little miffed that for the money, they do not include a SSD. Okay, SSDs are not expensive so no big deal but SSDs are not expensive so why not include a complimentary drive? That's like my expensive DAC. It did not come with a power cord. It is considered a given that the buyer will use their own high end power cord. Ok, yeah I did have my own high end power cord.
I thought of an analogy to streaming. Back in engineering college in the 1970s, I remember the Civil Engineers put together a water filtering demonstration for an Open House. They started with raw sewage and filtered it down to pure drinking water. The entire process was viewable through Lucite panels. Everyone was invited to sample the drinking water but there were few takers, that I saw. The apparatus started with grates to filter out the big chunks, then gravel and then finer and finer sands until the final stage that I guess filtered out the bacterium.
Just like the water, the music being streamed is mixed in with the garbage and needs progressive filtering to clean it up. Just a thought.
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you needn’t go all crazy reclocking the signal from your router to your music server if you don’t need to. I put two relatively inexpensive network switches between my CAT6 router and my server, and it really took away any trace of digital glare and harshness that makes streaming music sound less analog than when listening to records or music on tape.
@adasdad When I see what others have done in their streaming chains, this is hardly "all crazy" . I don't plan on getting another ER and cascading them, as many have done- my Cisco switch at $100 is much cheaper than some of the switches one can buy, I just got it so I can try optical. But the thing is - how does one know if one "doesn't need to" or not? From experience, one doesn't know there is glare or hash there until they hear their system with it removed. One thinks their system is glare free, and then they try ________ and the music is even smoother.
But yes, I don't need to do anything. My system sounds fantastic. I just want to. Let me ramble for a bit:
Read about about another streamer that is rather new: the Jcat XACT-S1. It has gotten some rave reviews, just like the Grimm MU1 did. Without checking exactly I believe it is about the same price as the K50 Tonywinga is going to try. The designer/owner then suggests one should use 2 of them- the first one as a switch, into the second one used as the endpoint. Sure, sign me up! Seriously, I think that is crazy because I don't have $25000 burning a hole in my pocket, but to others that is cheaper than the Taiko, and if it sounds better than it is a bargain to them.
My comment above to Tonywinga-, and you stated it above as well- we try it- we check it out with our ears- if it works better we keep it, if not, we sell it - this is being an audiophile.
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@tonywinga
So why am I doing this? Curiosity and the pursuit of better sound.... .........The sound of streaming is top notch- very, very good. I even put a high end power cord on the LPS and heard a difference. I can’t imagine the sound getting better, but I have to know.... ..How good can it get? I want to know.
That is called being an audiophile.
Let us know how your impressions of the K50. Looking forward to it. I am jealous. (well, if it sounds better that is :)
Curiously- why the K50 over the N20? Or other?
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@mdalton interesting point of view and a worthy response to my post above. 👍
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@mclinnguy, you needn’t go all crazy reclocking the signal from your router to your music server if you don’t need to. I put two relatively inexpensive network switches between my CAT6 router and my server, and it really took away any trace of digital glare and harshness that makes streaming music sound less analog than when listening to records or music on tape.
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@audphile1
I’m sure it was unintentional but you misrepresented my position. I absolutely agree that different DACs sound different, and that the oft-cited measurements of DACs (e.g., by ASR) are woefully inadequate to accurately representing the complexity of the differences in sound. But the process involving streamers - right up to where a data stream is introduced to the DAC - strikes me as fundamentally different. There’s digital data, there’s jitter, and other sources of noise, and for these, there are rather straightforward measures. I base this on my review of a significant number of what I believe to be credible sources - engineers, designers, etc. - who are infinitely smarter than me on the topic.
I don’t think saying “everything matters” is a rigorous first principle. A/B comparisons are really, really hard; aural memory sucks; confirmation bias is real. I don’t fault people who think they hear differences where I doubt they exist. I believe they are earnest and well-meaning. We make these same mistakes in all walks of life - our views of people, politics, sports. But I’m a big believer in starting from a shared set of facts - truths if you will - and I see an opportunity for one here. So while our failure to come to agreement on this one isn’t a threat to democracy, I do thing it’s a lost opportunity.
So let’s just agree to disagree, and agree not to move towards tribalism. (Not saying you were, btw.) And thanks for your engagement with me, and more importantly, the op.
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@audphile1 That could have been clearer, I agree :) I had just typed it all out in the etherregen forum on AS. I might as well copy and paste it here too. 12 hours later it still amazes me the size of the sound improvement; and I thought I had good noise free internet!
"I first posted my listening impressions here 2 years ago, only 2 pages ago (page 57). Not much action since then I see. I have made many changes in my system last year: I since acquired a newer better built version of hypex amplifier, a better power conditioner, a higher resolving DAC, and have some more expensive and better sounds cables.
Additionally, regarding the streaming/etheregen I previously simply had an Amazon cat 6 cable from router to etheregen, then cat 6 direct to DAC. I now have cat 5 to Cisco 2960 from the router, then optical to etherregen, then Audio Sensibility Supra ethernet to my Weiss 501. The etherregen is also powered by a Plixir BDC connected with an Audio Sensiblity copper DC cable.
I had the Plixir LPS kicking around after selling my exasound player, so I decided to keep it and try it on the etheregen before selling it. I most recently added optical line as many have claimed it improving SQ. The DC cable that came with the Plixir didn't fit in the etheregen, so I ordered one from Audio Sensibility.
With my new DAC I thought possibly it does a better job filtering compared to the older DAC, as this higher-end DAC has its own in house built power supply and renderer, so anything else in front of it might not be needed. So I just decided to unplug the etheregen/Plixir/optical/AS cat cable and go direct from the Cisco switch with the cat 6 cable to the Weiss and compare.
Well turns out I'm keeping everything. I am shocked. The difference is HUGE. I just read my post from 2 years ago, I stated yes it made a difference, but it wasn't huge. I have since thought to myself over the past 2 years for the $700 US yes it made a noticeable difference, perhaps significant in how it smoothed out the treble, but I always thought a $700 upgrade in cables may have been money better spent.
Keep in mind I didn't just buy this and post 2 hours later saying "OMG, this is night and day!" like we read from posters many times. I have owned this etherregen and it has been plugged in my system for 2 years, 🙂 But I will restate- it is unbelievable what a difference it makes.
Track: LIberty by Anette Askvik: it takes about 3 seconds to hear the difference- with the etheregen (etc.) the song begins with there is swirling of sounds, finely resolved drums and various other percussion, in 3d space, and then her voice is beautifully and naturally rendered in space. The sax sounds sublime. Exceptional recording. With ER and everything removed the whole soundstage collapses- it becomes 2D- the swirling is gone, there is just so much less to hear- her voice is sibilant and much less realistic. The sax first seems like it has more air, but the 'air' is distortion-poorly resolved air, and it no longer suspends itself in its own space, it falls flat. Seriously, it is obvious in mere seconds. If anything I thought it would be much harder to discern any differences. Now, it is not just a layer of grunge getting removed, but the whole soundstage undergoes a massive change, and with the ER/attachments my DAC goes from sounding like a $1000 player to the $10000 player it is supposed to sound like.
Here is another way to define the difference: that track Liberty, using just Amazon cat 6, I listen, and about half way though I have the desire to stop it and put on a more familiar track. With the ER/Plixir/fibre I listen from start to finish, and then have the desire to listen to the track again. And again. So much more music is gained- so much more engaging.
I am not inclined to see which part contributes to what particular percentage of overall improvement (etherregen 70%, LPS 20%, optical 5% Cisco 5% etc. ) I just wanted to know that this money spent for these streaming "tweaks" or components positively affect the sound quality compared to not having them. Yes, unequivocally!
So I am happy! First because my ears are better than I thought they might be, and because I trusted many in this thread and bought this switch. Like we all know, the higher the quality and more resolving one's system the easier it is to hear differences. And I keep reading from those with much more experience than I, when it comes to streaming "everything matters". "
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@essrand, you’re very welcome sir. I stream almost 100% of the time now because of the convenience factor. At 67yrs old I no longer wish to spend my free time going through my thousands of old scratched up LPs and CDs to find one particular album or song. I built my system specifically for the sound signature of my Chord Hugo TT2 DAC and Chord m scaler upsampler. Most of my cables, interconnects, power supplies, the network switches, and passive RFI/EMI filters like my ENO System Ag, were chosen not because they’re the most expensive, but because they sounded the best to my ears.
I was searching the interweb the other day looking for more information about the Nagra Tube DAC and how others implemented it into their audio setups, and I came across a similar discussion on The What’s Best Forum from you I believe. Let me just say that the level of decorum and deference there was quite in opposition to the expletive flavored rants posted here on Audiogon.
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Tony…my suggestion is to spin the Antipodes 24/7 and don’t judge it until around a 200hr mark. Have both spdif and usb connected. Make a playlist consisting of all bit rates and put it on repeat.
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This discussion is interesting for me at the moment because I just ordered me the Antipodes K50 music server/player after much research and deliberation- and much discussion with my wife. I am resolved to use the 30 day trial period to my full benefit although my dealer is nearly certain I will not be returning it. We’ll see. It should arrive this Monday, weather permitting. I picked the K50 because of its high end USB output. My AC Hele’ne DAC is optimized for USB but also has SPDIF inputs with reclocking capability. I also like the idea that this server/player, the K50 splits the tasks of managing streaming/ library functions and playing between one high powered computer and one low powered computer.
So why am I doing this? Curiosity and the pursuit of better sound. I currently use a RS9 music server (similar to a Nucleus +) running Roon. I have a LPS connected to it and I use sliver plated ethernet cables feeding it through two audio grade network switches in series. The sound of streaming is top notch- very, very good. I even put a high end power cord on the LPS and heard a difference. I can’t imagine the sound getting better, but I have to know.
I want to find out if mdalton’s theory is correct. I’m not so sure. The old adage, garbage in, garbage out might still apply even with high end DACs. No question that the music coming in from the Web is full of garbage. And many of us have learned that progressive filtering out of that garbage through better modems, routers, power supplies, switches, cables, reclocking, etc improves the sound of streaming. How good can it get? I want to know.
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@mdalton I read that review and saw the section you linked us to. What that means, at least to me, is:
1. the USB and reclocking capabilities of the signal of the Mytek and dCS DACs are what’s expected from DACs at this level
2. does not in any way indicate how any of the streamers plugged into those DACs sound like,
3. Does not indicate that dCS and Mytek sound alike either
Measurements is only a part of a complicated chain that impacts music reproduction. Measurements and specs don’t indicate how a component Would sound. If you take a tube DAC like the Nagra or the Lampizator or ARC, there’s a very good possibility that a Topping D90 will measure better in some areas. It don’t mean that it will sound better. That’s been my experience. YMMV.
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and here’s the Aurender you actually tried, right? The much more expensive Aurender’s measurements are marginally better played thru the Mytec - a cheap DAC compared to yours! - but likely inaudible. And the N200 thru the Mytec measures exactly the same as the Vokumio. Just sayin….
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and here it is for a Volunio
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I get it. I just think you found your answer over a year and a half ago when you posted this:
“The lesson I have gotten is that the effect of the server mainly depends on how competent your DAC is with input signal. Mine (Nagra Tube DAC) seems to be very competent because of various design reasons and has taken particular efforts to negate the bad effects of USB input. So I don't need to waste time with music servers just like Jay with his MSB Select 2 DAC. YMMV.”
Your conclusion there is consistent with actual data from reports done by Paul Miller of Hifi News whenever they review streamers. He shows the amount of jitter and noise as inferred at the receiving DAC, and the quality of jitter rejection and noise filtering is highly variable across DACs. But in certain cases, no matter how great the measurements are for a streamer, it’s largely irrelevant because of the DAC. I think you just need to declare victory and enjoy the music. Another less costly approach would be to try one of the much less costly streamers out there that measure magnificently - e.g. Volumio Rivo - and see what you get. Here’s the review/measurements of an Aurender, btw:
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@mclinnguy different good or different bad going direct without the Ethernet gizmos?
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@mdalton not buy but try. Buying used would be okay; cause if it didn’t work, I could sell it with not much loss.
I am yet to be convinced that streamers don’t work. Keeping an open mind to see if a streamer recommended by a fellow Nagra tube dac owner works for me.
@adasdad thanks for your kind note. Currently I have taken a break from streaming, only ripped CD audio files for now, but when I do get back to streaming I will keep your advice in mind.
cheers!
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@adasdad
If I were you, I’d have as few powered boxes between my router and your DAC as possible.
Last night, for the first time with my new DAC, I unplugged all the apparatus between my router and DAC and compared going from the router to the DAC with just an Amazon cat 6 cable. The difference was huge- much larger than I thought it would be. It makes me want to investigate adding an auxiliary clock into the chain as well, as many others have reported having a positive benefit.
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@pindac it’s probably best to start a new discussion. You’ll get more visibility that way and get more answers.
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Audio is a fun hobby for both listening and enjoying music with the thrill of connecting to the music but also for the exploration and experimentation of the equipment. I started out decades ago with modest gear making upgrades and modifications based on what I learned from others as well as applying my own engineering expertise. Making improvements in the sound is both rewarding and provides me with a sense of control. "I am the master of my own domain" sort of thing.
On the other hand, as I had the means I moved up to buying higher levels of hifi gear. That has its own type of satisfaction as well. Good gear sounds even better than what I was able to do on my own with tweaks and upgrades. But still, having that experience I believe, made me savvy as to which high end components were worth the price of admission.
The engineers in the business have many more resources and capabilities at hand to develop an audio component with much more performance capability than most of us. A good example of that, is the experience I had once while working with Ford engineers at one of their proving grounds in the early 1990s. The Mustang development crew was working in the bays adjacent to where I was working. They had a very large stack of tires in their bay- many different brands. A pack of 5 or 6 Mustangs would go out to the tire test track every morning with new tires. It got to be annoying, I would hear tires squealing on that track all day long. At the end of the day these Mustangs would return with bald tires. I said, "Wait a minute. Weren't those new tires just this morning?" The engineers confirmed to me that they were. By the end of the week that large stack of tires was gone. These engineers had assessed the performance of a large group of tires on a sample size of 6 cars. And this was just the hot summer testing.
I'm not saying audio gear is tested with the same type of rigor but the point is the developers typically know what components work best in their gear but they also often have to fight with the bean counters to come to a cost/performance compromise. Knowing which components to replace with what is the real trick.
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This Threads OP is now responded to for approx' 2 1/2 Years.
I have expressed an interest in a NUC within this thread in the past.
I am on the verge of making a change to the Source used for a period of time and Streamed Music, especially FLAC files are of interest. I am not yet at the point of affiliating to a Streaming Services.
As a method to purchase a Source, and wanting to do it on a reasonably tight budget, is the NUC as a New/Used Purchase, able to offer a SQ comparable to a dedicated streaming device purchased as a used sale item, this is up to 3 years old.
Additionally I don't shy away from the concept of creating improvements on a device in use, through having third party modifications, or similar, added to the device.
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I don’t know man, hard to understand how after having proven that a $6000 streamer didn’t do anything for you, now you wanna buy an $11,000 one. But hey, knock yourself out!
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@essrand, I'm extremely jealous of your Nagra Tube DAC sir. If I were you, I’d have as few powered boxes between my router and your DAC as possible.
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@mclinnguy
re: edit: or, maybe he could spend more :) after reading the positive results from @metaldetektor using the Playback streamer with the Nagra it would be curious if you could try one and see if it "beats" the Rock? You must be curious too, no?
yes I am. As soon @metaldetektor told me about it (a year ago), I contacted playback audio. Sadly no dealers here to help out, but I am keeping an eye for that streamer to pop into the used market. So far no luck.
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@mdalton
Correct, here is what they have for a non DAC streamer: I don't want to give the impression I am hugely familiar with this company, point is most manufacturers say "give it 200 hours to settle in" if you ask them, but these guys are the only ones I am aware of that have put it in print. It doesn't matter though because it is beyond my budget :)
BREAKING IN THE MPT-8 Since the MPT-8 does not have an analog output stage a break in period is not as critical with this machine. However, various parts can still benefit from a break in. For this it is recommended to simply leave the unit powered on without playing any audio. Typical break in periods are 300 - 500 hours.
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@mclinnguy
one last point. had to look up MPS-6 🥴. That piece includes a dac, right? Which means there’s alot going on there in the analog realm, which is where I’m more inclined to believe the potential effects of burn-in could be non-trivial.
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oops, meant “not seen out there”
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@mclinnguy
Hah! Sorry about that, just seemed like the right word for the occasion. Re the opened can of worms, as you can probably tell, I’m highly skeptical, though truth be told, I recently paid a few bucks more on a cable purchase for burn-in. It’s kind of like deciding to pray if I’m on a plane that’s going down. But I digress. We hear so much about components and/or processes that “lower the noise floor” or create “blacker blacks”, etc. Some I believe, some I don’t. But removing noise strikes me as one of the easier things to measure. So, for example, if a manufacturer claims a streamer experiences less noise - which could in turn help us hear some of the subtle cues noted in the literature you quoted - the a simple signal-to-noise ratio measurement (or its ilk) , would prove the point beyond a shadow of a doubt. And that’s something I’ve seen out there in manufacturers’ literature. Manufacturers say a lot of things, but sometimes they’re just not true. btw, love your system!
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@mdalton I’ll be honest, I had to look up the word disapprobation 😁
I agree the OP was seeking clarification as to the reason why there was no difference, I commend that.
I couldn’t find any burn in suggestions on Aurender’s website, but here is one for Playback designs player/streamer:
BREAKING IN THE MPS-6 Breaking in the MPS-6 is time consuming but well worth the effort. It would be a mistake to pre-judge the performance based on what you might hear at first listen. This is what you can expect to hear at different intervals during break-in:
1. Out of the box: The MPS-6 will have good clarity, but the highs can be recessed. Bass might appear to be a bit muddy and lacking punch. Soundstage might sound closed in.
2. 50 - 150 Hours: The sound will open up a little bit, but can still sound a bit brittle. 3. 150 - 350 Hours: Midrange will start smoothing out and clarity will increase, but highs might continue to remain recessed. At this point, there probably will not be much change in the bass. You will probably wonder how the Playback Designs converter will ever sound like others have described, but we assure you that you will start to hear substantial changes within another week of play.
4. 350 - 500 Hours: The magic will be starting. Highs will be open and airy. Midrange will appear much more full bodied and natural. Soundstage will be huge and the image presentation will start appearing very holographic. Bass will be incredibly deep and tight with texture and detail galore.
5. Over 500 Hours: The MPS-6 will continue to change subtly over the upcoming month of usage, but you should be recognizing a very life-like and natural sound. During break-in when you do not listen to music it is best to feed an external digital audio signal into any of the digital inputs of the MPS-6.
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Don’t know what you’re getting at but ok.
Good luck and happy listening!
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@audphile1
A little projection perhaps? After acknowledging that you hadn’t read the whole thread, you went ahead and posted this:
“didn’t read the entire thread but I saw this post and it didn’t stop me from trying the N200. The test conducted by the OP is flawed in several ways.
1. As already mentioned above the N200 is optimized for USB. The spdif out sounds fine but it’s very audible how much better the USB is. (see the posts above talking about the N200 clock)
2. Tidal sound significantly worse than Qobuz with the N200, and I think with Aurender in general.
So for the comparison the N200 was set up in a worst possible way. But even in this configuration I would expect it to beat the nuc. I tried streaming with my mac mini and it doesn’t hold a candle yo the n200. “
Two years ago the op had followed up on his first attempt - one day prior - but in your haste to defend your own decisions/biases, you criticized the op’s test - which had already been corrected - as “flawed”. In civilized society, this is where we say “I’m sorry.” But hey, I’m a snowflake.
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@mdalton
Just FYI…noise does decrease with burn in when it comes to cd players, transports and streamers. I have experienced this several times myself.
My N200 took over 200hrs to settle. I wonder if that’s where the N200 designation originated…like Jimmy Two Times…anyway I digress…
The noise floor with the N200 dropped after about 130-140hr mark. A cd transport I was trying out recently exhibited similar behavior.
As an aside, no one was harsh to anyone here. Some facts, and may be some occasional sarcasm, including the OP’s last post referring to most here being technologically challenged unable to put together a NUC. I kind of find that ironic given the tests that were conducted but hey….
So let’s not play the snowflake, “I’m offended” card here. Not warranted in this particular case.
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@mclinnguy I see, thanks for the clarification. I would just note that you may have been a little harsh towards the op here. He was very clear with respect to his processes for evaluation, much more so than the average poster here in my experience. And it was he who raised the burn-in question in an attempt to be as fair as possible. (And of course as you know, burn-in is a highly controversial topic itself, particularly as it relates to electronic devices that are “only” carrying a digital stream to the DAC - I mean, wouldn’t the argument have to be that noise decreases with burn in? Perhaps a can of worms best left unopened, lol!) So the fact that he didn’t go through an additional, time-consuming process, borrowing an expensive piece of gear from his dealer yet again, doesn’t seem to derserve our disapprobation, imho.
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@essrand @mdalton
I did read the whole thread, I was referring to this:
"I again spoke to the dealer. Asked him if he was sure if the unit was burned in. He got back to me yesterday saying it has only 60 hours on it.
Aurender says the N200 needs 150 hours to sound its best. Maybe that is the issue.
The unit is going back and I might demo it again in a few weeks after its 100% fully burnt in."
Therefore no, not ALL caveats were resolved. Look I don’t have a horse in this race, I am not an Aurender owner, I don’t own shares in streaming companies, I am just researching a future streaming purchase and I want opinions/reviews as genuine as possible. I simply asked if the OP ever tried the same N200 again, as suggested here by the OP Apparently not; if he is happy with his Roon Rock, fine!
But I guarantee 99.9% of the people who are reading this thread are scratching their heads, and not just because of the streamer choice, but the choices the OP has made with the other components listed. Maybe he could save more money?
edit: or, maybe he could spend more :) after reading the positive results from @metaldetektor using the Playback streamer with the Nagra it would be curious if you could try one and see if it "beats" the Rock? You must be curious too, no? 😉
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yes, not sure a couple recent posters (@mclinnguy @audphile1 ) read your follow-up post from 12/5, wherein you said:
So, me and an audiophile friend got together to sort this out.
“All the caveats were resolved. Both NUC and Aurender used USB, both were fed by Tidal. Now the surprise was that NUC beat Aurender by a nice margin.
The Aurender sounded cleaner and more audiophile but more analytical and lacking lower end bass (hence cleaner we felt).
Roon ROCK on NUC had better bass and was more natural sounding.
Go figure.
Hmmmm...now if I add a fanless chasis and LPS to my NUC it might sound even cleaner and beat Aurender in every which way.
The N200 is going back.
Anyone talking about noisy network or noisy USB etc are missing the point. This is a shootout under identical conditions. Roon + NUC vs Aurender N200 running Aurender software.”
I’d be interested what about this test is not an appropriate a/b. Only thing I can think of is that Roon wasn’t running on Aurender, but you’re still getting a test of streamer/software combos, so that seems credible to me. And if I’m not mistaken, Aurender is not roon-ready, right, so that makes it impossible to just test hardware anyway?
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It’s been a few years, I didn’t remember, and read thru the thread, wish the other naysayers did the same. I do wish people would read the thread completely before posting their big fat opinions. Note that a few posts later I mention that both use usb cables and both use tidal and are compared and the NUC won. About as close to an ideal experiment as you can get.
I forget that many here might be technically challenged to be futzing around setting up Roon rock. But those you have the chops, I highly recommend trying it out and do report back your results if you ever end up doing a shoot out.
cheers!
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@marco1 you’re right. The record has been set straight.
We’re done here.
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My post was intended as tongue in cheek but I guess did not come across that way. I just don’t see the point of arguing the obvious which then results in more arguments, name calling, etc. that is so often the case here on A’gon (not necessarily this thread). If someone likes vanilla you’re not going to persuade them that chocolate is better. I personally don’t believe that most people here on A’gon would be misguided by the OP’s original post. I also don’t think that most people with Aurender streamers are trading them in for NUC’s. I know I’m not. Of course I could be wrong.
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@fthompson251 hahaha thanks! Trying to cheer everyone up a bit. 😂
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Could be interesting if this was an apples v. apples comparison but it is not. If this was a science lab experiment the grade would be an F.
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@mclinnguy there was no follow up so I would assume that no, there was no round two to retest. I also won’t be building a Roon NUC to just try it. I’m also wondering if the $750 NUC was fanless. I forgot to ask. It’s rare to see a fanless NUC. And that fan, when it gets going, sounds like the whole thing is about to lift off. With time it will suck the dust in and clog the vents, which will make it work harder and louder.
It will eventually sound like your grandmother’s hair dryer and will interfere with listening and inject noise into the signal chain. It’s a double whammy.
At least get a fanless Roon Nucleus if you want to go that route.
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by all means spend the 6k on the Aurender, but my humble suggestion would be to try a Roon rock on an nuc first. It cost as much as an audiophile usb cable for gods sake :)
Did the op @essrand ever re-try the comparison "properly"? as he suggested he would in a "few weeks" quite a few weeks ago :)
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