750$ Intel NUC vs $6000 Aurender N200: I don't hear the difference
I finally plunged into the source is as important as the DAC belief that is quite prevalent here and decided to test out Aurender N200. And given I have a very highend DAC, thought if the N200 pans out I would go for the N20 or N30.
I was expecting the N200 to blow away my Intel NUC which is 10th gen, core i7, 8GB and running Roon Rock BUT I am switching back and forth between USB playing the Roon Rock, and Co-axial playing Aurender N200, and I don't hear much of a difference maybe a hair, or not even that.
A few caveats: 1) Roon Rock is playing Quboz, N200 is playing Tidal (I am unable to get Qobuz login to the N200 for reason I don't understand).
2) I am comparing Coaxial on N200, USB on Roon Rock.
Caveat #2 can be ignored because I don't hear a difference between Coaxial and USB output of N200.
So either this is an "Emperor has no clothes" moment or I am missing something big. Any thoughts on what I might be missing before I send this N200 back to the dealer on Monday.
Rest of my system: Nagra TUBE DAC -> Accuphase E-650 -> Devore O96 and all Acoustic Revive wiring.
@mdaltonI read that review and saw the section you linked us to. What that means, at least to me, is:
1. the USB and reclocking capabilities of the signal of the Mytek and dCS DACs are what’s expected from DACs at this level
2. does not in any way indicate how any of the streamers plugged into those DACs sound like,
3. Does not indicate that dCS and Mytek sound alike either
Measurements is only a part of a complicated chain that impacts music reproduction. Measurements and specs don’t indicate how a component Would sound. If you take a tube DAC like the Nagra or the Lampizator or ARC, there’s a very good possibility that a Topping D90 will measure better in some areas. It don’t mean that it will sound better. That’s been my experience. YMMV.
The OP saved $5k+. He’s happy. Why try to convince him or anyone else he did something wrong. I say congrats and enjoy the music
There are two sides to this coin. I agree with you…whatever floats your boat and makes you happy…that’s side one of the coin. The side two of it is the inconsistency in the A/B testing between the two use cases, the subjective nature of it all and the part where the inaccurate data posted here will result in misguiding others who are potentially striving to improve their systems. May be I’m completely off track here, but here are my $0.05 cents (inflation adjusted).
I never said measurements don’t matter.
Judging by several of your posts, you are most likely a beginner in this hobby or someone who’s been around for a while but dismissed listening as a critical, viable and valid means of evaluating audio components and cables. Probably watched a lot of ASR videos on YouTube…that will build this kind of foundation.
Why post here? To learn. Challenge yourself and your perception you have built up over the years by saying it’s all sciences. Yes it is science that’s a foundation of all of the design and the choices the designers make. But in the end, it’s us, the listeners, who using our ears determine what does and doesn’t sound good to us.
@mdaltonI don’t misrepresent your point. You have multiple posts here where your opinion is clear. The streamers going into DACs measure the same on the dac output, you throw the measurements card around again with your statement about Auralic streamer measurements using its stock cord.
Please don’t try and tell me I’m misrepresenting your point of view. Your point of view is rock solid.
Just an FYI…because you are science oriented, in most cases, with most interfaces, the analog signal is what carries the digital signal over a copper wire for example. It makes digital just as susceptible to EMI and RFI as analog.
Fiber and optical connections are obviously an exception - the light isn’t susceptible to analog noise.
You’re good at taking things out of context
what I said was…
you are most likely a beginner in this hobby or someone who’s been around for a while but dismissed listening as a critical, viable and valid means of evaluating audio components and cables.
@mdaltonno reason to get all fluffed up. You have a nice analog based system with those AN speakers…is that cat there on top of the speaker used as a vibration control? Just kidding. Let’s just move on. Enjoy the music! Have a good night.
Just FYI…noise does decrease with burn in when it comes to cd players, transports and streamers. I have experienced this several times myself.
My N200 took over 200hrs to settle. I wonder if that’s where the N200 designation originated…like Jimmy Two Times…anyway I digress…
The noise floor with the N200 dropped after about 130-140hr mark. A cd transport I was trying out recently exhibited similar behavior.
As an aside, no one was harsh to anyone here. Some facts, and may be some occasional sarcasm, including the OP’s last post referring to most here being technologically challenged unable to put together a NUC. I kind of find that ironic given the tests that were conducted but hey….
So let’s not play the snowflake, “I’m offended” card here. Not warranted in this particular case.
It doesn’t matter what usb cable was used. Comparing mac/ddc/dac combo or even just mac/dac combo to a one box solution such as Rose 250a isn’t a comparison. Apples and oranges. The right comparison would be to feed the signal from Rose to Denafrips dac or to the ddc/dac combo and compare that to the mac/denafrips combo. Compare streamers alone. Or compare a denafrips dac to Rose dac using mac as streamer feeding denafrips vs mac feeding Rose.
What you accomplished is you misinformed yourself and now you’re posting this BS here.
I didn’t read the entire thread but I saw this post and it didn’t stop me from trying the N200. The test conducted by the OP is flawed in several ways.
1. As already mentioned above the N200 is optimized for USB. The spdif out sounds fine but it’s very audible how much better the USB is. (see the posts above talking about the N200 clock)
2. Tidal sound significantly worse than Qobuz with the N200, and I think with Aurender in general.
So for the comparison the N200 was set up in a worst possible way. But even in this configuration I would expect it to beat the nuc. I tried streaming with my mac mini and it doesn’t hold a candle yo the n200.
@jastralfuthanks for the compliments on the system! I looked at your system page and the pictures show how much attention and effort went into assembling that setup. Nicely done!!!
As to testing the Rose with the Denafrips stack…in my experience my mac mini used as roon core and streamer was easily beat by a dedicated streamer. Going direct to DAC. But…when you have a DDC in the chain that reclocks the signal, the results may very well be different. So we can only speculate about how the Rose as streamer would sound vs. the Mac. Never know until you try.
Figured out why Tidal sounded significantly worse than Qobuz. I incidentally compared MQA version on Tidal to Qobuz hi-res. None of my digital front end components unfold MQA so it was coming across similar to what the mp3 would sound. There’s still a difference between Tidal 16/44 and Qobuz 16/44 but it isn’t that great.
And I agree, DAC will matter as well as the rest of your system. But the way you had tested using two different services and two different interface types still remains sub optimal.
@mclinnguythere was no follow up so I would assume that no, there was no round two to retest. I also won’t be building a Roon NUC to just try it. I’m also wondering if the $750 NUC was fanless. I forgot to ask. It’s rare to see a fanless NUC. And that fan, when it gets going, sounds like the whole thing is about to lift off. With time it will suck the dust in and clog the vents, which will make it work harder and louder.
It will eventually sound like your grandmother’s hair dryer and will interfere with listening and inject noise into the signal chain. It’s a double whammy.
At least get a fanless Roon Nucleus if you want to go that route.
Tony…my suggestion is to spin the Antipodes 24/7 and don’t judge it until around a 200hr mark. Have both spdif and usb connected. Make a playlist consisting of all bit rates and put it on repeat.
@tonywinga I also couldn’t believe the difference the streamer made when I got the Aurender N200. I’m using AQ Tornado HC power cord on it, which is essentially designed for use with power amps, with excellent results. I found, time and time again, that a bigger gauge power cords work better on digital gear than the smaller gauge cables.
I had Rogue RP1 preamp that retails for around $1600?
I bought it used for about $1200.
I had Audience OHNO ( oh no…) interconnects on it initially then upgraded to Acoustic Zen Matrix Ref II, then to Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper. I also put a Nordost Brahma power cord on it. These cables, each set, cost a lot more than that preamp. And each cable upgrade took it to new heights. I eventually upgraded the preamp and kept the cables.
I’m not sure why’s it so impossible to understand:
1. That cables improve the performance of the components
2. It’s none of your business the cables I decide to buy after hearing them bring so much to the table
3. No one owes anyone any type of justification. The best measurement tool is our ears. We buy what we can afford and what sounds best. It’s that simple.
This hobby is a journey for a lot of us, not a destination.
We learn along the way. Sometimes from our mistakes. The objective is to enjoy the best possible music reproduction within what each of us considers reasonable, for us, in our own systems, in our own rooms.
If there’s anything I’m missing please let me know.
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