750$ Intel NUC vs $6000 Aurender N200: I don't hear the difference

I began streaming two and a half years ago. One of the things I notice about listening to digital is that the digital glare or edgy highs always forced me to turn down the volume. Now I’m not talking about listening levels that drives everyone out of the house. I mean my normal listening levels that can make you feel the bass but not head splitting- analog music that is loud but not so loud to make groove noise annoyingly loud.

So as I have improved the sound of digital streaming through switches, cables and DACs, I find that I can turn up the volume on songs that in the past I would have to play at lower levels to avoid that cringing glare. I see that as a measurable parameter. I find now that I can play just about any streaming digital song as loud as I want. (Ok, not including the point where my wife objects.)

Yes, I am one of those "touchy sensitive" audiophiles that doesn’t like to crank up their car stereo system- especially if playing SXM. Forcing me to listen to that loudly has to go against the Geneva Convention. :)

Keep in mind that a resolving and open stereo system has the downside to making things like digital glare very apparent.

Hello mclinnguy,

I picked the K50 for its high level USB output as well as having multiple player and server app options.  The Antipodes allows the use of Roon, Squeeze, HDplayer (with subscription) and a couple of others.  I also see the logic in their multiple processor strategy.  I'm a little miffed that for the money, they do not include a SSD.  Okay, SSDs are not expensive so no big deal but SSDs are not expensive so why not include a complimentary drive?  That's like my expensive DAC.  It did not come with a power cord.  It is considered a given that the buyer will use their own high end power cord.  Ok, yeah I did have my own high end power cord.

I thought of an analogy to streaming.  Back in engineering college in the 1970s, I remember the Civil Engineers put together a water filtering demonstration for an Open House.  They started with raw sewage and filtered it down to pure drinking water.  The entire process was viewable through Lucite panels.  Everyone was invited to sample the drinking water but there were few takers, that I saw.  The apparatus started with grates to filter out the big chunks, then gravel and then finer and finer sands until the final stage that I guess filtered out the bacterium.  

Just like the water, the music being streamed is mixed in with the garbage and needs progressive filtering to clean it up.  Just a thought.

but spending alot of money on a power cord for an expensive streamer is nuts, imho, just pissing money away.
 

There it is.  Should have said that to begin with. 

Audio is a fun hobby for both listening and enjoying music with the thrill of connecting to the music but also for the exploration and experimentation of the equipment.  I started out decades ago with modest gear making upgrades and modifications based on what I learned from others as well as applying my own engineering expertise.  Making improvements in the sound is both rewarding and provides me with a sense of control.  "I am the master of my own domain" sort of thing.  

On the other hand, as I had the means I moved up to buying higher levels of hifi gear.  That has its own type of satisfaction as well.  Good gear sounds even better than what I was able to do on my own with tweaks and upgrades.  But still, having that experience I believe, made me savvy as to which high end components were worth the price of admission.  

The engineers in the business have many more resources and capabilities at hand to develop an audio component with much more performance capability than most of us.  A good example of that, is the experience I had once while working with Ford engineers at one of their proving grounds in the early 1990s.  The Mustang development crew was working in the bays adjacent to where I was working.  They had a very large stack of tires in their bay- many different brands.  A pack of 5 or 6 Mustangs would go out to the tire test track every morning with new tires.  It got to be annoying, I would hear tires squealing on that track all day long.  At the end of the day these Mustangs would return with bald tires.  I said, "Wait a minute.  Weren't those new tires just this morning?"  The engineers confirmed to me that they were.  By the end of the week that large stack of tires was gone.  These engineers had assessed the performance of a large group of tires on a sample size of 6 cars.  And this was just the hot summer testing.  

I'm not saying audio gear is tested with the same type of rigor but the point is the developers typically know what components work best in their gear but they also often have to fight with the bean counters to come to a cost/performance compromise.  Knowing which components to replace with what is the real trick.

This discussion is interesting for me at the moment because I just ordered me the Antipodes K50 music server/player after much research and deliberation- and much discussion with my wife. I am resolved to use the 30 day trial period to my full benefit although my dealer is nearly certain I will not be returning it. We’ll see. It should arrive this Monday, weather permitting. I picked the K50 because of its high end USB output. My AC Hele’ne DAC is optimized for USB but also has SPDIF inputs with reclocking capability. I also like the idea that this server/player, the K50 splits the tasks of managing streaming/ library functions and playing between one high powered computer and one low powered computer.

So why am I doing this? Curiosity and the pursuit of better sound. I currently use a RS9 music server (similar to a Nucleus +) running Roon. I have a LPS connected to it and I use sliver plated ethernet cables feeding it through two audio grade network switches in series. The sound of streaming is top notch- very, very good. I even put a high end power cord on the LPS and heard a difference. I can’t imagine the sound getting better, but I have to know.

I want to find out if mdalton’s theory is correct. I’m not so sure. The old adage, garbage in, garbage out might still apply even with high end DACs. No question that the music coming in from the Web is full of garbage. And many of us have learned that progressive filtering out of that garbage through better modems, routers, power supplies, switches, cables, reclocking, etc improves the sound of streaming. How good can it get? I want to know.

I received the Antipodes K50 yesterday.  It got delayed due to the bad weather.  Set-up was a breeze using their dashboard layout.  Since it has separate processors I can use Roon on the server and Squeeze for the player.  That lets me use the Roon app on my iPad.  I can also select Squeeze for the server too but I’ll try that later.  Right now I’m comfortable using Roon on my iPad.

The K50 needs 400 hours to full break-in.  At 27 hours I am already spellbound by the sound of this AC Hele’ne DAC/K50 combo.  I don’t understand how a streamer can make such a difference.  It’s hard to believe what’s possible until you hear it.

Thank you. I debated going with separates (k21/K41) and even staggering the purchases. But by the time I add in an extra power cord and an extra Ethernet Cable to connect the two boxes together, it was only a few hundred more for the K50. And the K50 has the added SPDIF output connections for greater flexibility.

I read and researched all the reviews. I also watched a youtube video interview of the CEO. Learned some good stuff about the company from that interview. He also advised that the K50 should be treated like an amplifier. Don’t plug it into a low power outlet on a power conditioner. It needs to be a high power outlet to sound good or plugged directly into the wall, he said. I bet it has something to do with the new SMPS that the K50 uses which is trickle down from the Oladra.

If you are wondering why I didn’t go for the Oladra for some thousands more, well I’m retired and my wife wants a new floor.

I’ll say this. I had $2800 in a NUC based music server running Roon plus an $800 LPS powering it. I won’t include the cables and audio grade network switches in that because I am still using them with the new K50. So with $3600 into my old music server I thought it would be difficult to beat. (Ok, the new streamer is very expensive but that’s my point.) The old music server sounded pretty good, I thought with my new DAC. I couldn’t have been more wrong. The DAC and the streamer are a team and both contribute equally to the sound. I won’t say the DAC and Streamer should match dollar for dollar (although coincidentally mine do) but they need to match up closely in capabilities, or have a plan to get there one day. It took me almost 50 years, so be patient. That makes me sound old. Let’s say 45 years. Really, I didn’t get serious into high end until 1988, so let’s say 36 years. That’s better.

The power cord is a component of your stereo system.  If you are going to skimp on that, why bother?

I put a power cord on my LPS of my old music server that was twice as expensive as the LPS.  Made an improvement in the sound.  Actually, the new power cord was an advanced purchase for my new Music Server.  Thought I would try it out in the mean time.  

Don’t dismiss power cords as inconsequential.  And don’t expect a lot from a low cost, “high end” power cord.

I see five types on these forums:

1) Audiophiles, hobbyists. These are enthusiasts who love sharing their equipment, experiences, what they have learned, and hearing about other’s experiences and equipment.

2). The Cynics.  Those who love poking at the number 1’s with derision and calling to doubt any claims of high fidelity.

3) Self appointed experts.  They make claims in defiance of the experiences of the number 1’s based on their own beliefs and work background in IT, Electronics, fast food preparation, etc.

4). The ASR crowd.  This group believes if it can’t be measured with a FFT Analyzer, then it doesn’t exist.  They claim to use “science” to come to their misguided conclusions ignoring reality.

5) Those who lurk in the shadows.  They read these forums but never post a comment.  Creepy.

Let’s start with the musicians.  Why would a musician choose to sacrifice to buy a multi-thousands of dollars instrument over a basic instrument costing hundreds of dollars.  They do it for the better sound and the pleasure it gives them making music with that instrument.  If someone else hears the difference or not is inconsequential.

I hear you.