750$ Intel NUC vs $6000 Aurender N200: I don't hear the difference

...playing SXM. Forcing me to listen to that loudly has to go against the Geneva Convention.

64 kb/s I believe- I agree- it's horrendous and it hurts my ears as well. 

 

@mdalton was it not you who earlier stated this: 

 I would just note that you may have been a little harsh towards the op here. 

You just told half of this forum they are pissing their money away. I think the shoe is on the other foot.

I am done responding in this thread. 

@metaldetektor thanks for sharing your experience. The many positive reviews of Grimm seem to imply it is the best thing since sliced bread, but this easily forgotten concept of synergy is the most important principle. Was this a DSD observation that gave the Playback the nod, or was this preference observed across all formats? 

 

by all means spend the 6k on the Aurender, but my humble suggestion would be to try a Roon rock on an nuc first. It cost as much as an audiophile usb cable for gods sake :)

Did the op @essrand ever re-try the comparison "properly"? as he suggested he would in a "few weeks" quite a few weeks ago :) 

@mdalton 

Correct, here is what they have for a non DAC streamer: I don't want to give the impression I am hugely familiar with this company, point is most manufacturers say "give it 200 hours to settle in" if you ask them, but these guys are the only ones I am aware of that have put it in print. It doesn't matter though because it is beyond my budget :) 

 

BREAKING IN THE MPT-8 Since the MPT-8 does not have an analog output stage a break in period is not as critical with this machine. However, various parts can still benefit from a break in. For this it is recommended to simply leave the unit powered on without playing any audio. Typical break in periods are 300 - 500 hours.

@mdalton I’ll be honest, I had to look up the word disapprobation 😁

I agree the OP was seeking clarification as to the reason why there was no difference, I commend that.

I couldn’t find any burn in suggestions on Aurender’s website, but here is one for Playback designs player/streamer:

BREAKING IN THE MPS-6 Breaking in the MPS-6 is time consuming but well worth the effort. It would be a mistake to pre-judge the performance based on what you might hear at first listen. This is what you can expect to hear at different intervals during break-in:

1. Out of the box: The MPS-6 will have good clarity, but the highs can be recessed. Bass might appear to be a bit muddy and lacking punch. Soundstage might sound closed in.

2. 50 - 150 Hours: The sound will open up a little bit, but can still sound a bit brittle. 3. 150 - 350 Hours: Midrange will start smoothing out and clarity will increase, but highs might continue to remain recessed. At this point, there probably will not be much change in the bass. You will probably wonder how the Playback Designs converter will ever sound like others have described, but we assure you that you will start to hear substantial changes within another week of play.

4. 350 - 500 Hours: The magic will be starting. Highs will be open and airy. Midrange will appear much more full bodied and natural. Soundstage will be huge and the image presentation will start appearing very holographic. Bass will be incredibly deep and tight with texture and detail galore.

5. Over 500 Hours: The MPS-6 will continue to change subtly over the upcoming month of usage, but you should be recognizing a very life-like and natural sound. During break-in when you do not listen to music it is best to feed an external digital audio signal into any of the digital inputs of the MPS-6.

 

@tonywinga

I am resolved to use the 30 day trial period to my full benefit although my dealer is nearly certain I will not be returning it.

So the dealer was correct? 😁 congratulations. I read Christiaan’s 9 month old review of the K22/K41 today- It is appealing to get one unit and then get the other at a later point: It has been a few years since his K50 review. I assume you read it?

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/category/review/digital-reviews/music-server-reviews/

Beautiful DAC by the way- 

 

If you are wondering why I didn’t go for the Oladra for some thousands more, well I’m retired and my wife wants a new floor.

A new floor? well I hope she can tell the difference double-blind, 9 times out of 10. Maybe get a 30 day return policy in case she can't pass. 

@adasdad 

If I were you, I’d have as few powered boxes between my router and your DAC as possible.

Last night, for the first time with my new DAC, I unplugged all the apparatus between my router and DAC and compared going from the router to the DAC with just an Amazon cat 6 cable. The difference was huge- much larger than I thought it would be. It makes me want to investigate adding an auxiliary clock into the chain as well, as many others have reported having a positive benefit. 

The side two of it is the inconsistency in the A/B testing between the two use cases, the subjective nature of it all and the part where the inaccurate data posted here will result in misguiding others who are potentially striving to improve their systems. May be I’m completely off track here, but here are my $0.05 cents (inflation adjusted).

@audphile1 you are not completely off track- I am with you 100%. Opinions are one thing, and taking personal preferences into account one cannot argue the decision if someone comes to a conclusion, but if forum posters wish to have a credible forum it is the responsibility of all to ensure that is an educated decision  with a sound and valid process, to the best of our volunteer hours permit of course. 

Then again, maybe the clickbait title was enough for some posters to ignore the whole thread. 

 

@essrand @mdalton

I did read the whole thread, I was referring to this:

"I again spoke to the dealer. Asked him if he was sure if the unit was burned in. He got back to me yesterday saying it has only 60 hours on it.

Aurender says the N200 needs 150 hours to sound its best. Maybe that is the issue.

The unit is going back and I might demo it again in a few weeks after its 100% fully burnt in."

Therefore no, not ALL caveats were resolved. Look I don’t have a horse in this race, I am not an Aurender owner, I don’t own shares in streaming companies, I am just researching a future streaming purchase and I want opinions/reviews as genuine as possible. I simply asked if the OP ever tried the same N200 again, as suggested here by the OP Apparently not; if he is happy with his Roon Rock, fine!

But I guarantee 99.9% of the people who are reading this thread are scratching their heads, and not just because of the streamer choice, but the choices the OP has made with the other components listed. Maybe he could save more money?

edit: or, maybe he could spend more :) after reading the positive results from @metaldetektor using the Playback streamer with the Nagra it would be curious if you could try one and see if it "beats" the Rock? You must be curious too, no? 😉

 

 

 

@audphile1 That could have been clearer, I agree :) I had just typed it all out in the etherregen forum on AS. I might as well copy and paste it here too. 12 hours later it still amazes me the size of the sound improvement; and I thought I had good noise free internet!

 

"I first posted my listening impressions here 2 years ago, only 2 pages ago (page 57). Not much action since then I see. I have made many changes in my system last year: I since acquired a newer better built version of hypex amplifier, a better power conditioner, a higher resolving DAC, and have some more expensive and better sounds cables. 

 

Additionally, regarding the streaming/etheregen I previously simply had an Amazon cat 6 cable from router to etheregen, then cat 6 direct to DAC. I now have cat 5 to Cisco 2960 from the router, then optical to etherregen, then Audio Sensibility Supra ethernet to my Weiss 501. The etherregen is also powered by a Plixir BDC connected with an Audio Sensiblity copper DC cable. 

 

I had the Plixir LPS kicking around after selling my exasound player, so I decided to keep it and try it on the etheregen before selling it. I most recently added optical line as many have claimed it improving SQ. The DC cable that came with the Plixir didn't fit in the etheregen, so I ordered one from Audio Sensibility. 

 

With my new DAC I thought possibly it does a better job filtering compared to the older DAC, as this higher-end DAC has its own in house built power supply and renderer, so anything else in front of it might not be needed. So I just decided to unplug the etheregen/Plixir/optical/AS cat cable and go direct from the Cisco switch with the cat 6 cable to the Weiss and compare. 

 

Well turns out I'm keeping everything. I am shocked. The difference is HUGE. I just read my post from 2 years ago, I stated yes it made a difference, but it wasn't huge. I have since thought to myself over the past 2 years for the $700 US yes it made a noticeable difference, perhaps significant in how it smoothed out the treble, but I always thought a $700 upgrade in cables may have been money better spent. 

 

Keep in mind I didn't just buy this and post 2 hours later saying "OMG, this is night and day!" like we read from posters many times. I have owned this etherregen and it has been plugged in my system for 2 years,  🙂 But I will restate- it is unbelievable what a difference it makes. 

 

Track: LIberty by Anette Askvik: it takes about 3 seconds to hear the difference- with the etheregen (etc.) the song begins with there is swirling of sounds, finely resolved drums and various other percussion, in 3d space, and then her voice is beautifully and naturally rendered in space. The sax sounds sublime. Exceptional recording. With ER and everything removed the whole soundstage collapses- it becomes 2D-  the swirling is gone, there is just so much less to hear- her voice is sibilant and much less realistic. The sax first seems like it has more air, but the 'air' is distortion-poorly resolved air, and it no longer suspends itself in its own space, it falls flat. Seriously, it is obvious in mere seconds. If anything I thought it would be much harder to discern any differences. Now, it is not just a layer of grunge getting removed, but the whole soundstage undergoes a massive change, and with the ER/attachments my DAC goes from sounding like a $1000 player to the $10000 player it is supposed to sound like. 

 

Here is another way to define the difference: that track Liberty, using just Amazon cat 6, I listen, and about half way though I have the desire to stop it and put on a more familiar track. With the ER/Plixir/fibre I listen from start to finish, and then have the desire to listen to the track again. And again. So much more music is gained- so much more engaging. 

 

I am not inclined to see which part contributes to what particular percentage of overall improvement (etherregen 70%, LPS 20%, optical 5% Cisco 5% etc. ) I just wanted to know that this money spent for these streaming "tweaks" or components positively affect the sound quality compared to not having them. Yes, unequivocally! 

 

So I am happy! First because my ears are better than I thought they might be, and because I trusted many in this thread and bought this switch. Like we all know, the higher the quality and more resolving one's system the easier it is to hear differences. And I keep reading from those with much more experience than I, when it comes to streaming "everything matters".  "

 

 

 

 

@tonywinga

So why am I doing this? Curiosity and the pursuit of better sound.... .........The sound of streaming is top notch- very, very good. I even put a high end power cord on the LPS and heard a difference. I can’t imagine the sound getting better, but I have to know.... ..How good can it get? I want to know.

That is called being an audiophile.

Let us know how your impressions of the K50. Looking forward to it. I am jealous. (well, if it sounds better that is :)

Curiously- why the K50 over the N20? Or other?

you needn’t go all crazy reclocking the signal from your router to your music server if you don’t need to. I put two relatively inexpensive network switches between my CAT6 router and my server, and it really took away any trace of digital glare and harshness that makes streaming music sound less analog than when listening to records or music on tape.

@adasdad When I see what others have done in their streaming chains, this is hardly "all crazy" . I don't plan on getting another ER and cascading them, as many have done- my Cisco switch at $100 is much cheaper than some of the switches one can buy, I just got it so I can try optical. But the thing is - how does one know if one "doesn't need to" or not? From experience, one doesn't know there is glare or hash there until they hear their system with it removed. One thinks their system is glare free, and then they try ________ and the music is even smoother.

But yes, I don't need to do anything. My system sounds fantastic. I just want to. Let me ramble for a bit: 

Read about about another streamer that is rather new: the Jcat XACT-S1. It has gotten some rave reviews, just like the Grimm MU1 did. Without checking exactly I believe it is about the same price as the K50 Tonywinga is going to try. The designer/owner then suggests one should use 2 of them- the first one as a switch, into the second one used as the endpoint. Sure, sign me up! Seriously, I think that is crazy because I don't have $25000 burning a hole in my pocket, but to others that is cheaper than the Taiko, and if it sounds better than it is a bargain to them. 

My comment above to Tonywinga-, and you stated it above as well- we try it- we check it out with our ears- if it works better we keep it, if not, we sell it - this is being an audiophile.

@kdeleon If a $1000 power cord on a $2000 component makes it sound as good as a $4000 component with its "stock" power cord, doesn't that sound like money well spent? 

@kdeleon We can state it, you can also read it by browsing all of these audio forums online and reading the thousands of impressions, but this is something you just to have to do yourself to truly understand. I can just copy and paste my own experience from a year ago: 

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2569972