750$ Intel NUC vs $6000 Aurender N200: I don't hear the difference
I finally plunged into the source is as important as the DAC belief that is quite prevalent here and decided to test out Aurender N200. And given I have a very highend DAC, thought if the N200 pans out I would go for the N20 or N30.
I was expecting the N200 to blow away my Intel NUC which is 10th gen, core i7, 8GB and running Roon Rock BUT I am switching back and forth between USB playing the Roon Rock, and Co-axial playing Aurender N200, and I don't hear much of a difference maybe a hair, or not even that.
A few caveats: 1) Roon Rock is playing Quboz, N200 is playing Tidal (I am unable to get Qobuz login to the N200 for reason I don't understand).
2) I am comparing Coaxial on N200, USB on Roon Rock.
Caveat #2 can be ignored because I don't hear a difference between Coaxial and USB output of N200.
So either this is an "Emperor has no clothes" moment or I am missing something big. Any thoughts on what I might be missing before I send this N200 back to the dealer on Monday.
Rest of my system: Nagra TUBE DAC -> Accuphase E-650 -> Devore O96 and all Acoustic Revive wiring.
@pdreher I understand your POV. Do you have a network switch too? |
@ricco275 I use an IFi Zenstream as the ROON endpoint between a Roon Nucleus and Weiss 202 DAC, steaming Qobuz exclusively. I’ve had far more expensive digital streamers (Aurender N10), but the sound quality and dependability of this affordable solution leaves me wanting for nothing. Also connecting via ethernet direct to your residence primary router is important as well. |
@tonywinga I’m a bad musician and waste too much money in my guitars and audiophile stuff but… hey, we live once. |
@pdreher how about a streamer in between the NUC and the MSB DAC? I don’t have files. Only Qobuz from Roon. |
@ricco275 I wouldn't. I remember reading a John Atkinson review of an upper tier Innuos server, in which he stated that the Innous sounded excellent, but not considerably better than a far less costly Roon Nucleus + server he had reviews previously. |
I see five types on these forums: 1) Audiophiles, hobbyists. These are enthusiasts who love sharing their equipment, experiences, what they have learned, and hearing about other’s experiences and equipment. 2). The Cynics. Those who love poking at the number 1’s with derision and calling to doubt any claims of high fidelity. 3) Self appointed experts. They make claims in defiance of the experiences of the number 1’s based on their own beliefs and work background in IT, Electronics, fast food preparation, etc. 4). The ASR crowd. This group believes if it can’t be measured with a FFT Analyzer, then it doesn’t exist. They claim to use “science” to come to their misguided conclusions ignoring reality. 5) Those who lurk in the shadows. They read these forums but never post a comment. Creepy. Let’s start with the musicians. Why would a musician choose to sacrifice to buy a multi-thousands of dollars instrument over a basic instrument costing hundreds of dollars. They do it for the better sound and the pleasure it gives them making music with that instrument. If someone else hears the difference or not is inconsequential. |
| Post removed |
@mdalton no reason to get all fluffed up. You have a nice analog based system with those AN speakers…is that cat there on top of the speaker used as a vibration control? Just kidding. Let’s just move on. Enjoy the music! Have a good night. |
“To learn. Challenge yourself and your perception you have built up over the years by saying it’s all sciences.” Dude, your words. But when somebody challenges you, you accuse him (or her) of being “a beginner to this hobby.” Who made you the audiophile police anyway? I’ve had a system since 1977(ish). And check out my 4 systems on audiogon - I think I have a right to exist. Sorry. |
@mdalton I don’t misrepresent your point. You have multiple posts here where your opinion is clear. The streamers going into DACs measure the same on the dac output, you throw the measurements card around again with your statement about Auralic streamer measurements using its stock cord. |
I never said measurements don’t matter. Why post here? To learn. Challenge yourself and your perception you have built up over the years by saying it’s all sciences. Yes it is science that’s a foundation of all of the design and the choices the designers make. But in the end, it’s us, the listeners, who using our ears determine what does and doesn’t sound good to us. |
@mdalton was it not you who earlier stated this:
You just told half of this forum they are pissing their money away. I think the shoe is on the other foot. I am done responding in this thread. |
”It’s none of your business the cables I decide to buy after hearing them bring so much to the table” Wow! Then why post? Why ask us questions as to what we should do? Sorry man, but just cuz I disagree with you doesn’t mean I have less right to respond to a post. One other point: Of course measurements (and science) matter. Here’s an example. I live in a temperate region where weather hasn’t materially changed. My experience tells me weather is not changing, ergo, no climate change. I mean, I know what I’m experiencing, therefore I must be right. Or maybe my local weather patterns have changed, but I haven’t bothered to monitor the data closely, so I pronounce “no climate change.” Either way I’m wrong, even though I’m convinced of my rightness. So let’s welcome the world of science and measurements, where the phenomena we experience /or don’t - are well explained and understood. I don’t criticize Newton for ruining my experience of the falling apple. I thank him for enhancing my understanding of it. So yes, I think you’re missing a bunch. |
| Post removed |
I had Rogue RP1 preamp that retails for around $1600? I bought it used for about $1200. 1. That cables improve the performance of the components 2. It’s none of your business the cables I decide to buy after hearing them bring so much to the table 3. No one owes anyone any type of justification. The best measurement tool is our ears. We buy what we can afford and what sounds best. It’s that simple. This hobby is a journey for a lot of us, not a destination. If there’s anything I’m missing please let me know. |
| Post removed |
oh my land! Please forgive me, but spending alot of money on a power cord for an expensive streamer is nuts, imho, just pissing money away. As I’ve posted on this thread previously, I suspect most people with high quality DACs have already wasted some money on an expensive streamer, but don’t throw good money after bad! While not immune, digital is far less susceptible to noise than analog. And the Auralic with its stock power cord measures at really low levels of noise; see HiFi News measurements of the Aries 2.1 below. The place where power cords really matter is downstream in the analog domain, so that’s the DAC, preamp, and amp. the place to worry most about a power cord is in the analog domain |
@kdeleon We can state it, you can also read it by browsing all of these audio forums online and reading the thousands of impressions, but this is something you just to have to do yourself to truly understand. I can just copy and paste my own experience from a year ago: https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2569972
|
@mclinnguy That is what I’m trying to understand. In the original post, we are putting a $2500 power cord on a $6000 streamer. I want to know what difference should one expect when doing this versus let’s say a $1000 power cord. I would prefer not having to go buy and sell power cords when I can ask someone who did it and try to understand the benefit. Locally we also don’t have many stores that lend out all sorts of cords. Even borrowing from thecableco costs money. But hearing from someone else who has done it is free and saves time. |
@kdeleon If a $1000 power cord on a $2000 component makes it sound as good as a $4000 component with its "stock" power cord, doesn't that sound like money well spent? |
The power cord is a component of your stereo system. If you are going to skimp on that, why bother? I put a power cord on my LPS of my old music server that was twice as expensive as the LPS. Made an improvement in the sound. Actually, the new power cord was an advanced purchase for my new Music Server. Thought I would try it out in the mean time. Don’t dismiss power cords as inconsequential. And don’t expect a lot from a low cost, “high end” power cord. |
@axeis1. You spent 40% of your streamer’s price for a power cord. What did you feel the changes were that deemed such a nice cable? I am asking out of true curiosity. I just spent 10% of the streamer cost and I thought that was pretty high. |
@tonywinga I also couldn’t believe the difference the streamer made when I got the Aurender N200. I’m using AQ Tornado HC power cord on it, which is essentially designed for use with power amps, with excellent results. I found, time and time again, that a bigger gauge power cords work better on digital gear than the smaller gauge cables. |
Thank you. I debated going with separates (k21/K41) and even staggering the purchases. But by the time I add in an extra power cord and an extra Ethernet Cable to connect the two boxes together, it was only a few hundred more for the K50. And the K50 has the added SPDIF output connections for greater flexibility. I read and researched all the reviews. I also watched a youtube video interview of the CEO. Learned some good stuff about the company from that interview. He also advised that the K50 should be treated like an amplifier. Don’t plug it into a low power outlet on a power conditioner. It needs to be a high power outlet to sound good or plugged directly into the wall, he said. I bet it has something to do with the new SMPS that the K50 uses which is trickle down from the Oladra. If you are wondering why I didn’t go for the Oladra for some thousands more, well I’m retired and my wife wants a new floor. I’ll say this. I had $2800 in a NUC based music server running Roon plus an $800 LPS powering it. I won’t include the cables and audio grade network switches in that because I am still using them with the new K50. So with $3600 into my old music server I thought it would be difficult to beat. (Ok, the new streamer is very expensive but that’s my point.) The old music server sounded pretty good, I thought with my new DAC. I couldn’t have been more wrong. The DAC and the streamer are a team and both contribute equally to the sound. I won’t say the DAC and Streamer should match dollar for dollar (although coincidentally mine do) but they need to match up closely in capabilities, or have a plan to get there one day. It took me almost 50 years, so be patient. That makes me sound old. Let’s say 45 years. Really, I didn’t get serious into high end until 1988, so let’s say 36 years. That’s better. |
So the dealer was correct? 😁 congratulations. I read Christiaan’s 9 month old review of the K22/K41 today- It is appealing to get one unit and then get the other at a later point: It has been a few years since his K50 review. I assume you read it? https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/category/review/digital-reviews/music-server-reviews/ Beautiful DAC by the way-
|
I received the Antipodes K50 yesterday. It got delayed due to the bad weather. Set-up was a breeze using their dashboard layout. Since it has separate processors I can use Roon on the server and Squeeze for the player. That lets me use the Roon app on my iPad. I can also select Squeeze for the server too but I’ll try that later. Right now I’m comfortable using Roon on my iPad. The K50 needs 400 hours to full break-in. At 27 hours I am already spellbound by the sound of this AC Hele’ne DAC/K50 combo. I don’t understand how a streamer can make such a difference. It’s hard to believe what’s possible until you hear it. |
@metaldetektor Thanks for the heads up on the plink/nagralink compatibility and sonic expectations. Will keep that in mind.
@mdalton I have always preferred and used low power tube amps (Coincident 300b set amp, Nagra 300b push pull amp) with my Devores. The Accuphase was the exception. I say "was" because I am in the midst of trying to sell the Accuphase E-650 to fund a Shindo pre/power combo (which as you must know is all low power tubes). |
One other slightly off topic observation (please forgive me in advance as I know you didn’t ask for this input): I love your system. It has a simple, classic elegance to it that i imagine must be very satisfying. (As in the opposite of fussy.) I’ve never heard the Accuphase, though I’ve heard much positive about it. At the same time, with the efficiency of those Devores, have you played at all with any lower power alternatives, including perhaps tubes? Would love to hear your experiences if you have. |