$10k Speaker Cables??????????????

Blame it on Noel Lee for starting the fancy wire market way back when!

I do not debate that there is importance in discussing the pros and cons of products. The price of those products is an important aspect of that back and forth. However, I do not agree that we should be producing such condescending vitriol about those who choose to sell such products or those who choose to purchase such products. It is of their own free will to do so. If I chose to buy a $10k cable brand new from distributor and I wasn't happy with it, then I would feel it is my responsibility to figure out how to make right on that transaction.  

So my answer is no. Just because you paid it, there is always something to say. Whether you return the product, get your money back, rant on line, file a grievance with your credit card or PayPal, or bring them to court, there is always something to say. In the end, handing over your hard earned money (not talking about a defective used product) rests on your shoulders. You may have thought those shoulders were well informed. But in the end, maybe they were not and that burden lies on the purchaser. 

Purchasing rhino horns to cure illness would not be a sound decision either medically or ecologically. 

ricmci,

You pay what you want to pay. Nobody is forcing you to write a check or hand over your credit card.

I don’t see the point of your replies.

No one is arguing that anyone here is being forced to buy super expensive cables. And of course there are people out there willing to spend that money on cables. That’s why they make them, obviously.
But what’s the matter with someone else expressing the opinion: "I consider this a poor value, and wouldn’t spend MY money on it"? Further, if the products are charging super high prices based on dubious claims for their efficacy, that’s worth commenting on too.

The whole mantra some people raise that "look, SOMEONE will buy it, so that’s what it’s worth" is just so superficial. Sure, there will always be people who will pay high prices knowledgeably for products.  There will also be suckers.    This is why it’s good to be able to distinguish truth from fiction.  After all, people will pay a lot of money for rhino horns thinking they cure things like cancer:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/why-does-a-rhino-horn-cost-300-000-because-viet...

D’ya really think all there is to be said about such phenomenon is "well, if someone’s paying for it, there’s nothing left to say?"

You pay what you want to pay. Nobody is forcing you to write a check or hand over your credit card. If you think you need a $10k cable than so be it. The onus of that purchase rests on your shoulders. Don't blame anyone else.

🐈💩=🐍💩

OK, let’s see, who’s making more money, the dude selling 10 speaker cables @ $10K per pair or the dude selling 100 speaker cables at only $200 per pair? Oh, wait! Crap, I see what you mean!

cakyol +1. Does it really matter what the price is?  The market sets the price. There may be a few people out there who are willing to pay that price and they could care less. The market is set to what the majority of us are willing to pay for cables. Don't fret about the ultra high end gear. It will take care of itself. Just listen and be happy!

Are $10K speaker cables worth it?

Like many things in life, IME, the answer is "it depends."

It’s not all wire......
..and yes, it can take more than a week to build.

It's not rokit sergery. It's wire.

There's a point where high-end audio becomes more of a jewelry business than audio.  Case in point, Absolute Sound not even mentioning Benchmark in their list of good DAC's. The problem with DIY stuff is that it looks too much like seashell earings and beaded necklaces.

BTW, I bet some cable manufacturers are guffawing over the accusation that they might have a 100% markup.

My cables are so thick I cant place them on earth.  The weight would cause the orbit around the sun to change.  I listen to it outside the solar system.  It costs me a bit extra but it is worth every penny.

It is in Venezuelan currency....

Having been in Audio over 35 years and owning a Audio store
in the UK  cables by A Looong margin have the highest profit margin  in some cases betterThen  10-1 vs cost , then the factor 
of hours , sometimes claims of a week building   is truly stretching it too many tea breaks.
and $ 5 digit plus prices ? Even  in the U.S $3-4K  for a 2m Power cord give me a break . I am sure it sounds good ,but waay over priced. if you have that much to blow  it could be better spent elsewhere !!

I found that cable cost is not any indication that the cable will work well in any particular system.  WFLowe signature cables were not nearly as good as AudioQuest lesser cables....go figure.

My speaker cables cost $199,045 ZWD

I bid twenty housand  quid for that there wire covered in fine fabric invisible to all but those unfit to hear the sonic superiority. 

There is something fairly awe-inspiring about the sheer ballsiness in high end cable prices.  It's almost like watching manufacturers dare themselves (and the public) to keep going one better.  "Ok, unbelievable move there...and someone bought it!....but I can top you!..."

Hey, that’s chump change, pal. The Siltech Emperor Crown can be yours for $40,000.

Here for a 6ft cable....
It's merely $29,400
https://www.thecableco.com/dragon-zero-with-firebird-bass.html

n80

@geoffkait said:

"It’s not rocket science."

You got that right. But there is money to be made in convincing people that it is, right Geoff?

>>>>Only if you say so, Bubba. The devil’s greatest trick was convincing people he didn’t exist.

Gosh, I did not know that. 😳

What kind of person decides to get into the cable maker market? Talentless engineer who couldn’t make it doing tube amps? Marketing guru? Cult leader? Psychopaths? All of the above and worse?

Uh, no one is suggesting a thing that is say, 10 times more expensive than something else is 10 times better. A car, a watch, a TV, an amplifier, speakers, or cables. But I would suggest the curve of price vs performance does not flatten out nearly as quickly as some people say it does. You might have to pay 3 times more to get 2 x performance, that would not surprise me. It depends on many, many factors.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis96dcd-anticables-level-3-reference-series-6-foot-speaker-wires-...

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9798d-siltech-cables-triple-crown-speaker-cables-2-5m-spades-li...


Will Siltech cable sound hundred times better than Anticable?

Probably not.

I had been happily using Audio Note speaker cables for 18 years which I had paid 2,500$ for 6 ft pair.

Some cable could be better than Audio Note in dynamics and details, but not in overall nuanced musicality.

@geoffkait  said:

"It’s not rocket science."

You got that right. But there is money to be made in convincing people that it is, right Geoff?

how about Nbs III S speaker cables 12ft $30k 

Goodie for you, n80. I was in procurement and budget too, including a $3B procurement. I was talking specifically about super high-price items like the $100,000 toilet and $1K hammer someone mentioned, that’s alwaysed used as some sort of example to prove cables are a ripoff. Everybody knows the government pays too much for everything. Duh! Getting back to the subject if someone doesn’t like the cost of some high end cables buy used or buy within your budget. It’s not rocket science. 🚀

Actually seeing the design and build quality of these cables is quite exciting and educational to me. Not at all depressing. I suppose my filter is set to see things in a more positive light. 

Yep, the high end cable racket.  Always something to behold, and one of the more depressing aspects of the hobby.  But once manufacturers found out how much people would actually pay for fancy cables...the sky has not been a limit.  And everyone and his mother wants to get in on those margins...even speaker, amp and other manufacturers have dabbled in selling cables.  Great for business.  Not so great for the credibility of audiophiles and the hobby in general.  Ah well...

Geoff, having been in the USAF on purchasing committees as well as on Pharmacy and Therapuetics purchasing committees (civilian and military) I can tell you for a fact that when an item is deemed "special purpose" vendors will charge more for identical items that are not "special purpose" and absolutely identical.

To trolls, everyone looks like a troll.

@ stevecham:  Your math is incorrect.  If I sell something for $1.00 and make $.10 profit, my margin is 10%.  Pretty hard to achieve more than a 100% margin (and we all give 110% here at my company, too!).  Your comment smacks of indulging in hyperbole.

The point is stevorino there’s a perfectly good reason for a super expensive toilet in certain cases. You know, just like there frequently is for cables. In the case of some government “ripoffs” there are no spare parts any longer so replacement parts must be made by hand.

The margins on such items are North of 100%.

And Geoff, it takes a troll to know one. And no, I didn't say ALL toilets did I? Please learn to read and understand before responding.

I always wonder , if all marketing, R&D, markups removed, how much actually (parts and labor) those expensive cables costs? Would be interesting to know.

Nope, sorry, troll. There are reasons for exhorbitant prices for a toilet when the toilet is one Air Force One. The government doesn’t get charged high prices for all toilets, troll. We also see what happens when the government gives contracts to low bidders. You probably don’t see anything wrong with that.

You see, the audio industry took a nod from government contractors that charged Uncle Sam  $10K for hammers and $40K for toilet seats. They finally caught on.

Also Purist Audio, Stage III, Jorma.

There are lots of speaker cables over $10k in the hifi world.  Masterbuilt, Nordost, Echole, and Argento just to name a few.  They are very good cables, but just not for everybody.

We once had an inquiry for a 8.5M version of our reference speaker cables. We recommended against it. We would have had to customize it and add more strands for a couple of reasons.

the fluid metal has a low resistance compared to some other non wire materials but still high-ish. Thus, in order to made sure the cable had low enough basic resistance, well, next to impossible for that length. We urged them to go for a long IC and far far shorter speaker cables.

due to the high internal resistance of the fluid, beyond a certain point, in lengths, it becomes pointless to pursue the higher fidelity that the fluid metal brings (superior electromagnetic expression compared to wire).

The sticker shock on that proposed 8.5M reference custom speaker cable, would have been a jaw dropping $285k US. We said we’d make it but we’d not guarantee its function and would accept no returns. That they experiment would be on them. Again, we recommended against it. If it did not work as desired, it could not be chopped up into cheaper ones and re-terminated. This is fluid metal. Each cable is a permanently set piece.

This inquiry was the standard partner issue of having to hide the equipment and wires to make it acceptable to the domicile and partner...but playing out at the Hong Kong Billionaire level.

I would have loved to have made it for the one single thing: The most expensive speaker cable ever made, hopefully. Just... because.

To give you an idea, the construction of the cable in review, is an attempt to get past the electromagnetic problems of solidus metal wire. As is all wire configuration and design parameters in the high end speaker and interconnect world. Every single one of the cable designers out there are struggling with electromagnetic expression and integration problems of solidus wire. Everything they talk about, deal with, use in advert text (cut away images, etc), white papers and so on, deals with this problem.

The fluid metal does away with those problems intrinsically.

I DIY'd a very similar topology with air insulation a few years back when I was in my home brew cable phase. The build was straightforward; clear poly tubing plus acrylic spacers and some solid conductors. Probably <$100 all in for a set of 3m cables. 

I abandoned this project for unrelated reasons, but with a couple of unresolved concerns. First, the surface area of the spacers touching the wire isn't large but also isn't zero so does that limit the benefits of using air as an insulator in a meaningful way?

Second, how was I going to avoid humidity in the cable (and tarnish buildup on the conductor). My shop wasn't exactly a lab grade clean room and this seemed like the biggest hurdle to overcome to achieve a viable application.

Third, I used a fewer number of spacers, which meant a fewer number of crossing points, so I was worried about inductance, but had planned to resolve that once I get past the POC. 

Anyway, hats off to them for what looks like a nice build. Hopefully they will be demo'd at a show and I can hear how the pros do it.

 

Oh, no doubt, as we have the franchise on bathos. 🕳🔚

George,

Doesn't Synergistic Research and Hi Fidelity make some even pricier cables in the good Ole' USA ?

ozzy

Old news, I’m afraid. The real news is $40K speaker cables and $25K interconnects. And even that is old news.

I think those are primarily for people who want to be able to say they have $7221 speaker cables.............

But that's not fair is it? If $1500 cables (like mine) are better than $500 cables which are better than $100 cables....who are we to question why $7000 cables aren't worth every penny. And they're pretty too.

Ah, good, I’ll take two👍

Actually that's  in Australian dollars. With the good ol' US of A greenback it's "only" $7221...

I can only dream of such....

Wow! Impressive build design and execution however. Love to hear if they sound like $10,000 🙂