@audphile1 I will do that! I just purchased a used one so I will share my impressions after I have some time with it.
Zavfino Majestic USB Cable
I am planning on upgrading my $50 straightwire usb cable to something under $300 and came across the Zavfino Majestic USB. The specs look great but I can’t find any semi-detailed reviews online besides on their website.
Has anyone tried this cable? What are your impressions? Thanks!
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That certainly does NOT make you the authority on digital audio transmissions
Any digital cable? And please enlighten me, where else in cables we should look for a difference maker? |
@thyname I have 50 years experience in audio, professional, home theater and 2-channel., and I am formally trained in architectural acoustics. several of my professional speaker designs have been commercial successes. I also have 40 years experience computers and digital audio, including 20 years as a principal network architect for AT&T. I have never said analog cables do not make a difference, but claims made for digital cables simply have no plausible or viable basis for their claims. The nature of digital signal transmission and the protocols used do not support the claims. Whatever audible differences that may exist are in the ADC/DAC process involving quantization errors or sampling rates, or in filter algorithms or improperly filtered noise on the analog outputs. None are attributable to the digital data transmission itself. A quick study of the layered model of data communications, like the 4-Layer TCP/IP model shows why this is the case The TCP/IP reference model has four layers: 4) Application Layer - Formats messages, provides User Interface, and App Services 3) Transport Layer or Host to Host Layer - Ensures data delivery and sequencing 2) Internet Layer - Provides addressing and routing 1) Network Access Layer or Link Layer - Provides physical connectivity and transport of raw bits. Layer 1 - The Link Layer is where the physical connection lives, be it copper or glass or radio. Layer one serves only to transport raw data bits - low voltages (0s) and high voltages (1s) or in the case of fiber, relative light and dark levels. This where all digital cables operate and is the only physical component. Everything above this is software. The actual data rides above Layer One, in the case of Ethernet and USB, in packets. Transmitted signal levels are 0.0–0.3 V for logical low, and 2.8–3.6 V for logical high level. This means that any 'noise' below 300mV is simply not recognized. Any noise above that, and that would be a VERY noisy circuit, would trigger a CRC or Parity error, and a packet retransmission for TCP/IP. It's also easy to measure with an oscilloscope. You should also be aware that USB 3.0 (the standard since 2008) and above are operating at 5 Gbits/Sec, 10Gbits/Sec for 3.1, 50,000 to 100,000 times faster than even the most aggressive audio requirements. Discussions of isochronicity in relation to audio signals are academic at best for any realistic implementation. So if you want to run a 100M or 200M USB cable, yeah, maybe expect issues. At 5M or less, just not a big deal, not even a little deal. You can listen all you want and perceive all the differences you want, but they aren’t in the digital cable. |
@davidvanderbilt please post your thoughts on your USB cable comparison when you get around to it. It may actually add value, unlike the endless and pointless tirade this thread had turned it. |
Wow does it ever end, is there a record for the longest mean nothing mud slinging thread…there is now 😎 let’s move from usb to say fibre optic or the price of gas or who’s car is faster….anything but this baby tantrum yada yada. I do have a family vested interest in fibre op, of course there is pros an cons, but that and wireless is certainly getting interesting. Cheers |
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Conjecture… An opinion or conclusion formed on incomplete information…An unproven mathematical or scientific theorem. IMO, looking at how something is made Technology inc., doesn’t guarantee it works any better. Does a sterling silver butter knife spread better than stainless steel ? Do the terms one simple proof and experimental method work in the same sentence ? And how wrong is a person that their eyes, ears don’t show an Obvious difference and to who ? There is no obvious Authority one way or the other. Maybe this debate going on for 50 odd years can be proof of that. Cheers
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@sfcfran +100 These guys are very funny. They think having access to a "Google machine" makes them the authority on anything. Well, these are the times we live in, instant gratification. I bet they don't even stream audio to their system, or if they do, they are not using USB, at all, and never laid eyes on any USB cable other than their printer cable. |
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I never understood this phenomenon. People with zero interest in USB cables pile on heavily on …. USB cable threads. With ferocity and anger. Go figure 🤔
Who is Scan80269 ? Does not ring a bell. Some type of guru USB scientist? Credentials? I looked up audiostyle.com. Site does not exist. Any working link to share on the guru?
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@panzrwagn Can’t see it but I’m smiling, thank you for that. Things were piling up around here, we needed eloquently spoken fact. Forced a plate of humility on a few, that has to sting. Enjoy the music, damn I’m happy ! Cheers |
Great USB audio summary. "Most modern DACs with USB input implement "Isochronous transfer mode with asynchronous feedback". The isochronous transfer mode of USB is the one that guarantees transmission bandwidth but does not support data retransmission (in response to data packet CRC errors). In contrast, the bulk transfer mode of USB (the one used for USB flash drives & other storage devices) has a packet retransmission capability but no guaranteed throughtput. Isochronous transfer mode favors data transmission regularity over integrity, whereas bulk mode is the opposite. In USB, strictly speaking there is no asynchronous mode, but rather "asynchronous feedback", so for the DACs, it is not a choice between implementing isochronous or asynchronous. Asynchronous simply means the receiver (being the USB DAC) will send information back to the source (PC, streamer, etc.) to slightly speed up or slow down the data transmission, to prevent buffer underruns or overruns at the DAC side. Essentially the USB DAC controls the pacing of the data. With good USB signal integrity, achieved with good quality and not-too-long USB cable, data corruption should be a non-issue. The isochronous transfer mode with asynchronous feedback is the correct way to send audio over USB, and tremendously helps prevent audio dropouts due to interruptions in the data stream." Scan80269 as quoted from audiostyle.com, April 2017 |
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@macg19 Fair enough. With apologies, thanks for your reply. |
@sfcfran Dude...all I said was...
...and you and others have jumped to conclusions such as I use "Amazon basics cables" and have a "less revealing system than everyone else here". I'm not saying don't buy good quality cables. I do. But when it comes to really high-end cables, especially digital, the marketing around many of these things is simply BS, and of course no one wants to admit that once they've bought them.
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For Audio, USB protocol is Isochronous: Periodic and continuous transfer for time-sensitive data. There is no error checking or retransmission of the data sent in these packets.
Google Gordon Rankin.
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@macg19 @1971gto455ho Until you’ve replaced your amazon basics cables or monster cable rip offs with a quality HDMI and see the MAJOR difference in your picture quality, or USB for sound quality, you will continue to deprive yourself of what your equipment is capable of. Even moderate cost quality products will show very notable, undeniable differences, from Pangea, Furutech, Jenvings Supra, etc. The differences come in too many forms to list, but include from magnetic field compression due to poor designs, poor insulating materials & dielectrics which can store EMF in their effort to reject EMF, but then supersaturate and release it into the cable conducters, disrupting electron flow (poor EMF rejection); too small a cable, causing its own magnetic field to be compressed by the insulation, and restricting its own imaging abilities; too large a cable enabling electron flow at the outer edges of the conductors, which causes separation and reconstruction of the digital ’digits’ in the wrong sequence, causing muddled colors and sound, black saturation, detail motion,,, on and on; too much skin effect in analog cables, or even stranded digital cables, enabling jumping of electrons out of sequence and a diluted product at the endpoint (tv/amp/speakers/etc). You both bash audiophile cables on your assessment and limited knowledge of electron flow, without knowledge of how electron flow impacts audio or visual signal at the receiving end. You do so out of ignorance which you believe is well-informed information, and without experience, on your personal assumption that 4k in, 4k out is just a matter of total digits. Do what makes you feel well about your own $ and systems, but when you come someplace like here, and bash others wealth of knowledge and experience far beyond your own, you only embarrass yourselves to the point of others ignoring you, to wit, when you may actually have something useful and educated to share, no one will listen. Good day to you.
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@macg19 you are correct, the key of USP cable performance is ensure no bit errors. Fundamental frequencies in USB transmission are x480MHz, which is beyond of any sound system BW, but high freq. could affect bad-shielding analog cable signal next to it. Wondering if recommended USB cable replacement passed USB standard required mandatory tests. esthetics, look, and feel, still does play a role in high-end audio device consumer market. |
The Zavfino and DH Labs look like solid choices, and one being copper and the other silver-plated copper a comparison would be interesting. I’ll throw in the LavriCables Ultimate Silver Dual USB as another option that differs in that, as the name implies, it uses pure 5N silver wire and also because the data and power legs are physically separated rather than running together with shielding. These are impressive features considering the price of only $180 for a 1.5m cable. I’ve got four cables from them and have been thrilled with the sound of each. There’s a house sound that is very balanced, very detailed yet never harsh sounding and very natural, impressive tight and deep bass, excellent tonal properties especially for a silver cable, and outstanding 3D imaging and expansive soundstage where images pop out of a completely clear and transparent space. To me, they exhibit similar properties to my Acoustic Zen Silver Reference ll interconnects if that helps. The bad news is they apparently don’t accept returns as they’re custom made in Latvia, but FWIW I never even considered returning any of my four LavriCables, and there are several seasoned A’goners with very accomplished systems here who’ve also bought various cables from them and to a person have all been as extremely impressed with them as I have — even when comparing to much more expensive cables from much more well-known manufacturers. Yes they’re a bit of a gamble given the return policy but one I think is well worth making given the value, design, quality, and performance on offer. Just another different option to ponder FWIW, and best of luck. |
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@missioncoonery : just ignore the trolls. |
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You cannot beat Zavfino Majestic USB at that price. As good as it gets. Here is another one to add to your list, more expensive though: https://www.madscientist-audio.com/bmusb.html New Zealand based. They have the "Ultra" version of that, way more money, but it is the newer version. |
@jjss49 You're right! It’s a waste of energy. Lol. @audphile1 Thanks so much for the detailed comparison! I will add the DH labs to my list. It’s funny you mention audience - after borrowing several interconnects from the cable co the audience Ohno xlr cable was the one I liked the most and ended up buying. Also bought the matching audience speaker cables. I’d really like a USB cable from them as well but the studio two usb starts at around 500. I think I’ll keep my eye out for a used one and try the others on my list in the meantime. |
Just to add to my post - I owned Kimber b-bus usb, Wireworld Starlight 8, DH Labs Mirage, Audience AU24SE+ and tried Analysis Plus silver usb (around $100). The kimber is barely any different than the generic usb, Analysis Plus was thin, glassy sound with decent amount of glare in the mids, I gave it time to settle but it never materialized. The best was the Audience. Most natural presentation, smooth and extended. It was in line with the Audience “house” sound. Good luck and have fun! |
@davidvanderbilt be sure to borrow DH Labs Mirage USB cable. Nice design. Great value! Took a significantly more expensive Audience AU24SE+ to beat it. I’d also add Audioquest to the borrow list. |
op i suggest you ignore the pissing contest... it is neither here nor there as far as your system and musical enjoyment goes zavfino sells cables on a money back basis (less a reasonable restocking fee), so just try it and find out for yourself this journey is most rewarding when hearing qualitative differences (or lack thereof) for yourself and not accepting others’ proclamations or denials |
@davidvanderbilt They are listed in my virtual system in my profile. The only items not listed are the Nordost purple flare speaker cables which you can see in the pic. They have been "demoted" to connect my Yamaha AVR to the main speakers rather than the Raven tube amp. The only other cables not listed are 2 $30 Pangea ethernet cables for the streamer and Amazon TV. |
@macg19 Which cables (interconnects, speaker, usb) have you tried? |
This is revealing... Who is the collective "we" and how could you possibly know that "we" have more revealing systems than "us"? (mine is in my profile, yours is not). "Deniers just move on"...so rather than discuss and provide a counterpoint you want us to go away. Sounds familiar. Anyway, I'm not trying to convert anyone and I'll scoot over where and when I feel like it.
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@boomerbillone Thank you! This is very helpful. I am going to try a few out in the next few weeks and am planning on ordering one.
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@1971gto455ho true that. Sounds like you have a nice muscle car? |
@1971gto455ho Not really we just have more revealing systems and can hear the difference. Why do not you deniers just move on. You are not going to covert anyone no more than Amir did with his ASR rant and the only measurement matter. Scoot on over to Audioholics. |
Hello davidvanderbilt. The Zavfino is the best USB cable I have. It beats Wireworld and Furuteck in my systems. More detailed and refined sound. You can hear that the wall behind a particular orchestra is made of brick. |
@macg19 |
