It’s cultural, as many comments say. Many 65+ were the buyers back in the 70s and 80s of higher end gear because we valued music, rock, jazz, blues, in a time when music was a leading cultural, social, even political art form. Not just physical media, we also put FM radio on the map: the receiver was integral. And we were in our 20s and 30s then. Some also still have hundreds if not thousands of books on shelves as well because up until about 1972, or maybe later, many writers had the same allure. We went to lots of movies too. Values, as far as the arts go, have changed generationally. Not just content, what bands people like, but the place music has in people’s lives. For many years, maybe since the 90s, with these huge stadium shows, it has been social, a gathering place, an event, not just GD and U2 and Bruce, but all sorts from rap to country to Swift, as opposed to a man and his stereo in his room. My kids laugh at me and my records, although my son in law was happy to get a cast off TT and speakers from me, maybe because he’s a musician, but more likely because times are tight and he would never spend the dough we did at that age for stuff.
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Well I guess I’m 2 for 2! I collect antique clocks and own way too many audio systems. Two declining hobbies. At 74 I’ll just continue to enjoy both.
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I'm shocked that no teens are watching videos about five figure adult luxury indulgences.
It's a hobby that appeals to older gentlemen with spare cash. Relax..everyone gets old some time.
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@dr-boop
It's a hobby that appeals to older gentlemen with spare cash. Relax..everyone gets old some time.
Agreed, the concern is that once the current batch of older gentleman kick the bucket there doesn’t seem to be another batch in the pipeline to replace them.
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My kid bought himself a Technics turntable on craigslist when he was 17, plugged it into a little system I game him, and he buys vinyl albums that cost more than the turntable.
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There is too much of a push to high cost hardware when good affordable equipment can be made. The young today are too busy paying rent, utilities, buying organic food and electric cars to have the excess cash to spend on stereo hardware. The industry is its own worst enemy. I'd like to buy a new tape deck to take 10 inch reels, but will not spend $10,000 on up for one and we can afford it.
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Interesting thread. I am going to guess that Darko and his “futurefi” channel (that includes reviews of vinyl products) has a different viewership than the OP’s results.
In the 60s and 70s, when the current gray beards were starting out, an amp or a receiver with two wired speakers were the most common way to reproduce whatever came out of your source of choice. No streaming, no earbuds, no wireless speakers. Music and musicians were a cultural force, leading a shift in values and perspective for western society. That placed a high value on the means to listen just as transistors made decent sounding gear widely available, and many of us imprinted on that 2-channel experience and have been refining it with our rising living standards more or less ever since.
Both my 30-something children have 2-channel systems. My son who is in tech has a better “stereo” than I do, and he aspires to continuously improve it and the room where he listens. He is also deeply knowledgeable about streaming, music servers and headphone gear but also has a very good vinyl playback system anx enjoys collecting high quality pressings. My daughter started with a vinyl rig that belonged to my father, and I have helped her upgrade it over time. Her 3 and 4 year olds especially like listening to it, which is why it has only a modest phono cartridge(!!) I have a midfi rig in my office, and my staff in their 20s and 30s love it.
There is hope for music reproduction and a passion for it to persist. It just won’t look like it has in the past.
kn
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Krell is a legacy brand from the 1980s...same with Levinson. So that explains the age demographic.
If you were to look at YouTube age demographics for YouTubers that promote mid-fi and chi-fi, you would find mostly men under 50...the Reddit crowd.
So I disagree with your conclusions that the hi-fi industry is dying. The chi-fi and mid-fi demographics will gain income over time...and while Krell won't be relevant to them, McIntosh will be. It's a legacy brand that like Harley, is still relevant.
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@bipod72 - I'm sorry but Steely Dan has NO bad songs. Of the very small number groups I listen to where I think EVERY album is worthy or being in my library (just about all groups have bad albums) of rotating albums they are the only group with no songs that I would ever think of picking up the arm and skipping over a song. One exception - Becker's (RIP) song on Everything must go, the last song on side 1 (Slang of Ages), so it is very easy to skip. It is not a real Steely Dan song. Other exception if you must, is not a Steely Dan song, East St Louis Toodle-Oo. Some may want to skip it, but I would never think of skipping it.
And the UHQR of Aja is by far the best sounding available copy.
I was also lucky that I spent a lot of time in a record store in college that some friends of mine owned (thankfully I never invested - would have lost 90% of to) do I got to hear most of the music of the golden age of classic rock in the 70's and early 80's and I challenge anyone to name another group with no bad songs. I'd love to check them out.
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@markley : I was buying LP's at Barnes&Noble in 2015. Not a new thing there!
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@rooze
I am another older guy, but I’m not signed in to YouTube. I open the app and watch hifi videos. So how would they know my age or gender?
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I have a daughter in her mid thirties snd two sons in their twenties. None of them are audiophiles as such, but all three buy and listen to vinyl.
As has been hinted at above, it’s a question of only older people being able to afford expensive gear. Sadly, it’s doubtful of the new generations of audiophiles will have the disposable income that us baby boomers enjoyed.
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@seanheis1
Yes Krell is for old farts. There were two videos with contrasting appeal referenced in the OP for that reason. I guess we take away what we want to take away.
In general, I’m excited that there are people appealing to a younger demographic on social media. There’s nothing more fun as an audiophile to have a younger person experience your system and appear to ‘get it’ at some level.
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I wonder if anyone has done an analysis of political leanings for audiophiles - Majority more conservative or more liberal?
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+1 for @rooze
”In general, I’m excited that there are people appealing to a younger demographic on social media. There’s nothing more fun as an audiophile to have a younger person experience your system and appear to ‘get it’ at some level.”
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I am 69 (although I don't feel a day over 64!!) and my big brother is 79. We were talking about how, when we were young, the stereo system was the center-point of our inside world. Neither of us had televisions until we were in our, perhaps, late 20's and the wasteland of TV could not compare to the richness of music - I could perhaps also speculate on how smoking pot enhanced our listening experiences as well.
The world has shifted so much. the center of what we all do now is visual and interactive (telephone, tablet or computer) and listening has become secondary to the interactions that the digital world has brought to life. This is not all to the good - I would add. Babies in their first year who spend more than an hour engaged with the mothers cell phone have a higher risk of autism (a lot higher) and four year old's engaging with tablets loose their impulse control (however much that is). So there is something so fundamentally different about sitting and listening, and engaging. It is not all good, either. And I agree with tkrtrb125 - having more money and time has something to do with it.
And
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Yes Krell is for old farts. There were two videos with contrasting appeal referenced in the OP for that reason. I guess we take away what we want to take away.
AI determines who your videos are shown to. This has to do with your topics AND the demographics of your subscriber base...
I did a quick scan of your video topics....besides Krell I am seeing Altec Lansing, cable reviews, turntable reviews, and audio show content....so not surprising that your subscribers are well over age 55...which is fine of course.
If you were to look at the stats of larger channels like Andrew Robinson or the Cheap Audio Man....there will be a big chunk of users under the age of 45...and they will more than replenish the current ranks ;-)
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With the exceptional rise in prices of gear over the last decade that has outpaced inflation by good margin, I think we are seeing the future unfold. Manufactures are seeking to obtain profit from fewer, albeit wealthier, enthusiasts. What are they to do? Gear is made more “extreme” to justify the necessarily higher prices. Does it sound better? Probably. Are there good value propositions to be found? Not up at the extreme high end IME. But those with deep pockets and ears to follow gratefully oblige. As the customer base shrinks, the prices (and gear) will become more extravagant. And manufacturers will die off with the customer base… to a point. Some will certainly last. But the landscape will absolutely look very different in 30 years, as it should.
Perhaps the silver lining is that with change, unexpected improvements can be appreciated. The general tone of this thread is negative but thinking in a more forward direction, perhaps there are elements of today’s audiophile society that limit growth and improvement in sound reproduction. What I’m interested in is if we can manage to create some ingenuity and end up with 90% of the sound quality, 20% of the complexity and 10% of the cost of today’s best systems. That will never happen if all we do is continue to aspire to own systems that cost as much as a house and weigh as much as a car. Perhaps we should welcome a little change.
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@seanheis1 Age seems to shift with cost while gender stays the same. I don’t think any of this surprises anyone. A few people early on commented to the effect “tell us something new”. My point and the reason for posting was to discuss what, if anything, could be done differently to attract a younger audience. We already know from the stats that lower prices bring a younger age group. That’s the point well made by a few people and is pretty obvious. I mentioned people like Devon Turnbull from OJAS who had an interesting way of marketing his business, using social media to connect with a younger audience. There’s more to be had from his methods.
Otherwise I’m not really losing any sleep over this, I’m too old to care too much about something that isn’t going to cause any wars or end the planet. My place in it all is that it’s been a hobby for over 45 years. I like the gear and music in fairly equal measures and I like dropping the occasional post on my blog or the occasional video on the socials. If, as some have suggested, this is a societal issue, another sign that the gap in wealth is growing and being concentrated more among an ever decreasing percentage of the population, then that’s a sad indictment of where we’re all at.
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@2serious
I like all of this:
With the exceptional rise in prices of gear over the last decade that has outpaced inflation by good margin, I think we are seeing the future unfold. Manufactures are seeking to obtain profit from fewer, albeit wealthier, enthusiasts. What are they to do? Gear is made more “extreme” to justify the necessarily higher prices. Does it sound better? Probably. Are there good value propositions to be found? Not up at the extreme high end IME. But those with deep pockets and ears to follow gratefully oblige. As the customer base shrinks, the prices (and gear) will become more extravagant. And manufacturers will die off with the customer base… to a point. Some will certainly last. But the landscape will absolutely look very different in 30 years, as it should.
Perhaps the silver lining is that with change, unexpected improvements can be appreciated. The general tone of this thread is negative but thinking in a more forward direction, perhaps there are elements of today’s audiophile society that limit growth and improvement in sound reproduction. What I’m interested in is if we can manage to create some ingenuity and end up with 90% of the sound quality, 20% of the complexity and 10% of the cost of today’s best systems. That will never happen if all we do is continue to aspire to own systems that cost as much as a house and weigh as much as a car. Perhaps we should welcome a little change.
Not exactly sure what you meant here: "perhaps there are elements of today’s audiophile society that limit growth and improvement in sound reproduction."
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I think the concern about the death of audiophiles is a bit melodramatic. Perhaps at the high-end spectrum but the growth in mid-fi/future-fi products that are all-in-ones that can do many things is where the growth will be.
Despite the growth of streaming as a means to "consume" music, people are still purchasing music and predominately in the physical format.
This recent article in Headphonesty talks about the growth of CD sales, particularly among younger people. With digital downloads on the decline among music buyers. Will they be listening to their CD and vinyl collection on high-end gear? No. But they will be listening on something...even if it is entry point equipment.
So if the older audiophiles are concerned that a younger generation isn't following in their footsteps it's probably because the audiophiles aren't doing a good job of mentoring younger people. If your first response to a young person who is buying a turntable for the first time is to crap on their decision to buy an entry point Audio Technica TT hooked up to Bluetooth speakers then you're missing an opportunity to encourage them on the path to enjoying their hobby of building a music collection and the opportunity to upgrade over time to better equipment that will bring out the best of their collection.
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@sokogear IMO Steely Dan has bad songs...Black Cow being one of them. As does Rush, Yes, the list goes on for me. I've tried many times to make it through certain Steely Dan albums that others considered great and have yet to find a single album that I can listen to from beginning to end. They're just not my cup of tea and while I can listen to them in bits and pieces I'm not going to die on a hill hating or loving them.
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@rooze
To clarify, I believe that there is a lot of boxed-in thinking when it comes to sound reproduction, both from an engineering perspective and from an evaluation standard. Everyone wants to make everyone else believe that they are right. Absurd and ignorant. We are not all alike - thank God! As such, we do not all appreciate the reproduction of music in the same way. So we should all stop being so persnickety about trying to make everyone think and hear and listen like us. I am 46 and believe and I am likely in the generation that bridges the gap, so to speak, between the hard-core, stalwart audiophiles and my kids who listen exclusively to headphones and our whole-house audio system. While they appreciate my listening den with about 40K worth of gear, they stay only for 1 or 2 songs before they are off to the next thing. That's the way it is going to be.
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@bipod72 - if you're not a fan of SD, you're not a fan. Some people think they are too slick or "Yacht Rock"y - everyone is entitled to their opinion. But you cannot deny their incredible musicianship and recording quality. They are in a class by themselves and should have their own SirriusXM channel. Black Cow is a great song, especially live. I'ver seen them over 20 times including solo Fagen, Dukes of September and NY Rock and Soul Revue concerts.
I would like to know of any other group out there where every album is worth owning and you would not want to skip a song.
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If, as some have suggested, this is a societal issue, another sign that the gap in wealth is growing and being concentrated more among an ever decreasing percentage of the population, then that’s a sad indictment of where we’re all at.
The good news is that in the USA, the standard of living has been increasing every generation across classes due to increases in worker productivity, aided by technology....
but yeah tech billionaires have been concentrating wealth...I think that's a good problem to have...they create jobs....many high paying. but that's politics so i will stop there ;-)
Congratulations on your channel.
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Extra metrics, some HiFi product categories by age group :
- Mid-Range/Budget Headphones: 18-45 (Casual listeners, tech enthusiasts)
- Entry-Level Turntables: 18-35 (Younger music lovers, hobbyists)
- Mid-Range/Budget DACs: 25-45 (Casual listeners, home studio owners)
- Mid-Range/Budget Speakers: 25-55 (Music lovers, casual users)
- Mid-Range/Budget Amplifiers: 30-60 (Home theater users, hobbyists)
- High-End Headphones: 30-65 (Audiophiles, sound engineers)
- High-End DACs: 30-65 (Audiophiles, critical listeners)
- Streaming Devices: 30-65 (Tech enthusiasts, audiophiles)
- HiFi Subwoofers: 35-60 (Home theater and audio enthusiasts)
- High-End Speakers: 35-65 (Audiophiles, home theater enthusiasts)
- High-End Turntables: 35-65 (Vinyl collectors, purists)
- High-End Amplifiers: 40-70 (Audiophiles, collectors)
(Sources: OpenAI, statista, Grand View Research..)
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