Wrong speakers

I agree with Seadogs1. Research Vapor Audio's offerings. There are forums here and elsewhere. They are often mentioned as favs/best sound at shows.

Just a suggestion, I would try the New Vapor Audio Joule Whites. Check them out at the Vapor Audio website or on the audio circle. I think they are great but also everyone I have had over to listen can not believe their sound. I have owned Bozak 305's Phase Linear speakers Fulton speakers Unity Audio speakers Audio Physics, Sound Lab M1's, VMPS v60's and Usher Audio BE-10 and none of them are in the same ballpark as the Vapors. Try to audition them to see and hear for yourself. They work well with both tube and ss.

Try Magico S1,Mini 2,V3 etc.

"12-08-13: Acidfolk
Zd
Ha ha good one
Thiels are fine speaks
Just trying to get max benefit from
My Einstein amp
The treble in particular is quite annoying"

You have good focus on your problem. I'm very sensitive to HF's myself. If the highs are not just right, I can't listen to the system. I can tell you from experience that if you try to fix this by just reading reviews and going by other people's opinions, your chance of success will be extremely small. Really, it will just be an accident if you happen to get it right. Nothing wrong with getting some opinions to point you in the right direction, but in the end, you'll need to verify the results for yourself.

You mention wanting to get the best sound from your amp. I agree. Its perfectly normal to want that. The only problem is that your amp will sound different in different systems. Sometimes the traits carry over from one system to the next, but quite often, they don't. There's so many factors at play, the easiest way is to just try it with other components. I'm not too familiar with your amp, but if it uses tubes and is not very powerful, it magnifies the problem. That's why I asked you to list some systems that you have liked in the past. That will at least give you a reference point so you can begin. If you don't know where you want to end up when you are done building your system, you probably won't be successful.

Probably not the Einstein amps. We have had a room at the RMAF for many years. When I had time I would go into as many rooms as I could. My impression is that most speakers are way to bright. The trick is to look for those rare gems from smaller companies that don't mass produce and have a love of music.

Zd
Ha ha good one
Thiels are fine speaks
Just trying to get max benefit from
My Einstein amp
The treble in particular is quite annoying

Have you considered a pair of Thiels? They always get good reviews. I can't see you going wrong with them.

At any rate would be interested in your opinion of them

They may be
WhT they have in common from the stuff Ive learned here though,
Is they both work best with tube amps.
They are two way , which some people claim is superior to three way,
Both have a loyal following , and are considered highly,
The used gear sells for similar prices, other than Tannoy flagship

These are some very different sounding speakers your considering.

Rx8man
I replied to unsound just now, would really like to see how much juice the Einsteins have to give
Right now , im looking at the merlin vsm or tannoys
If tannoys ill have to wait fir a good pair with 15" drivers to show up
This is based on the input so far both these units seem like good soeakers
Not sure if they are great speakers, i guess thats the holy grail

You may be right , was reading up on these , they have many pluses
Do you think the 15" driver is the essential element with the tannoys
Is there any other reason to use them with a tube amp?

Right now based on

Unsound
Thanks for the horse its not dead yet
The Einstein is am amp i really like so , Id rather change speakers
Not sure what to do with the thiels though, i have a set of older McCormack amps , so I may use them or sell them

I think you would like the Faulken Doshiers. New company out of Germany. Their floor models are stunning.

Agree with Unsound on both of his statements, find amp to match chosen speakers.

Tannoy 15" DC is the best of the best.

At the risk of appearing to beat a dead horse, have you considered getting an appropriate amp for the Thiels instead?

A more spacious presatation, The vandersteens get my vote!

Ok got lots of research to do now
Phasecorrect
Appreciate the tip

Hi
I will chr k the nolas and the focals
Both of them seem really interesting

Ok simao will check out these recommendations

Hi Thanks once again fir your interest
The ceiling is a 16 footer

Would also vote for Vandersteen if tweeter output is a concern...they have "Contour Controls" on the back for this application...might come in handy....they also have a more spacious presentation than Thiels....which some might prefer...

If you are bummed by Theils treble with your SS output stage precision amp, I strongly recommend speakers with a very sweet "musical" top end. I own Focal 936s and would say they are too clinical for you but there is a pair on sale right now pretty cheap. The speaker I would advise you to get are Nolas. The whole line is targeted towards people who like rich tone and sweet treble. I don't own them but have heard them and thought about it quite seriously. Read a few reviews to get an idea.
It took me several years to get the right amp and speaker combination, so take it easy and be prepared, for some trial and error. That is what has happened to the industry for all the reasons you spelled out about being unable to audition gear.

Acidfolk:
Good info. Ceiling height is important to know, as the volume can be drastically different in an 8' as compared to a 16' cathedral ceiling. Big volumes require a lot from both speakers and electronics. Only music type that has me concerned for you is orchestral. I like the ability to fill the room with sound, and in my large room, it takes a big amp with large speakers to make large scale symphonies sound good. Piano can also be concerning, but to a lesser degree, as good piano done right requires balls too, especially in low-mids and bass regions. Hope this helps.

Focal profile 928 or 918 might be the ticket if you can find a pair.

Rtilden
I take your advice seriously as well as the others to answer those other questions
Room size is about 20 by 25
The music is classical, orchestral, piano, lute , and violin sonatas
Also, folk , acidfolk especially , other as well but mostly those two genres
Im very proud of acidfolk BTW, its not listened to enough
Cant really do the positioning thing now , so require speakers that aren't
so dependent on the perfect seating position
Likely will buy so sound enhancing stuff as it appears from the posts on threads that it can make quite a big difference
Also, the speakers listed by me, are just some examples of ones that seem highly respected here , which are praised for their ability to reproduce a live experience guess that is my goal

Not familiar with the amp in question...but it appears from feedback back above it is 4 ohm capable...I have heard other Thiel models with similar power behind them...and they sounded a awfully good imho...can u add an additional amp and use the Einstein as a preamp?...just a thought...fwiw...I have used 4 ohm speakers in the past with far less power than u currently have with good results...but every every application s different...good luck

I did the same thing when I first entered the audiophile world. I locked up an ARC vs-110 amp, blue circle pre, and then moseyed around the speaker world before finding the Maggie 3.6r. It was a circuitous route, but it worked out. Thus time, tho, I started with reference 3a de capos and found the LSA Statement integrated to be a perfect fit.

Anyhow, you also might try Triangle speakers. Tho you really can't go wrong with MBL or even Vandersteens.

Acid:
S.T.O.P.! Lots of advice being offered, although Zd542's and Unsound's should be heeded. The stuff you have purchased is not cheap, and it is crucial to find the right direction before proceeding. It is puzzling how you find yourself in this position after reading forum info, as Unsound's advice has been the mantra for the 30 years I have been around high-end. But, your situation does give you an unusual advantage in determining your next step. You can take your electronics to a demo location with speakers you wish to hear and audition first-hand. Also, you can borrow electronics (from dealers or hi-fi friends) to mate with your Thiels to test at home. Few of us can have such a perfect opportunity to see which we prefer.

But, your first priority is to get some focus/direction. Crucial to speaker selection are topics I haven't seen you mention: preferred music/instrument types; room size; seating distance; listening levels, etc. Different speakers perform differently depending upon your criteria.

Doing this the recommended way will yield dividends. The other way is a series of expensive crap-shoots.... But, I will say that over the years, I have won in a hi-fi crap-shoot or two (got damn lucky)! It's just that you have this opportunity to really get it right if you use the right approach. Good luck.

Your right in general
The target is max our the potential of the wadia player and the
Light in the dark amp
To get a pair of speakers that will last for a lot of years too

Zd
Realize this is great advice trouble is i don't really have access to systems to audition, nor the time to go to hifi shows or drive a few hundred miles to a large city with stores.
May sound weird, but that as well as the vast experience of audiogoners here is the reason Im turning to this forum for advice
Not looking for the perfect gear just a reasonable facsimile of the recorded sound

Actually, wanted to test the theory about speakers being the first part of a system
Then the thiels were being sold fairly local, and I had the amp plus and player with no speakers, so I acted in haste , but at least Ive got sound

It is called a hybrid

Hi
Ill search them up
Though the ones posted here seem quite moderate in price
Are they great nonetheless?

Mapman
Very helpful, its not that i like the ohmm sound haven't heard any of these speakers actually
Only read about them on forums and online reviews
On digging further , i git the impression that ohmms also want gobs of power
I find it kind of wierd that tube amps are very popular , while most of the good to great speakers desire large powerful amps

Good Rief
Will look fir them
I did search up merlin they seem real nice , I like their look to, even if its conventional
Ill try to get the larger ones if they come along here
Meanwhile Ill check the coincidents

AlmRg, nice of you to point that out , thanks
I did talk to the speaker maker you recommended, and did get get the feeling that it would be the right fit. Problem being ,of course, guessing at speakers without hearing them is really hard.
I live pretty isolated, the nearest city had three dealers who have all gone out of business.
Not sure as to the reason, economy , or the itunes

Thats very helpful
The Thiels work, of course
But I notice they treble is harsh, while the bass is rounded
The midrange is missing to a large degree
Also, I just dont have the right room to set them up properly
Really need a great speaker that matches the tube amp
That is not complicated by additional equipment etc

Right , Id not put the
Light in the dark
So its a hybrid

Definitely don't spend money shooting for a target until you know what the target is.

Choose amplifiers for speakers, not speakers for amplifiers.

You need to get some focus. List some examples of systems that you have heard and liked. Not just single components, but whole systems. Doing that will at least give you a direction that you can be pointed in. If you can't list any systems, I recommend not spending any more money until you can.

Acidfolk, why did you buy the Thiels? In another thread you started it was clearly stated that they need at least 200 wpc to sound their best.

I think the OPS amp is a hybrid with tube input stage, not a tube output power amp.

Look into a pair of ZU Audio speakers. Very efficient and very tube friendly.

Yeah, Thiels can be tough, but I suspect there are many speaker choices out there that would work well with that amp. An easier load and higher efficiency speakers on paper likely provide the greatest upside.

Of the ones you mention, I think mbl is the only line I would have major reservations about in that I suspect these are no easier to drive than THiel and maybe even worse. They tend to meet their potential mainly with only the biggest and beefiest SS amps.

IF its teh omni sound you are after, OHM might work well. My OHMs did very well with a modest power 80 watt Tandberg receiver once, and with a 120 w/ch Musical Fidelity power amp. Room size and acoustics would be a determining factor for how far you can get with a good 80 watt amp driving OHMs. Impedance measurements I have seen for the OHMs indicate impedance dips to just below 4 ohms in the bass region, not horrible by modern standards for most good SS amps, but not the easiest either.

Audiokinesis is another innovative line I like on paper a lot (have not heard) that pays special attention to value, soundstage, imaging, a large sweet spot, and ease of setup, all things that OHMs are known for as well, plus I believe to be a fairly easy load to drive as well in general, perfect on paper for an amp like that maybe. I'm thinking if there is a more conventional and affordable speaker line out there that might have a chance to lure me off my OHMs someday, AK could be it.

I would look at Merlin and Coincident speakers;these are known to be tube amp friendly and are very well respected;they have excellent customer support as well.

A point of information that some of the respondents don't appear to be aware of: Based on one of the OP's previous threads it appears that his amp is Einstein's "Light In The Dark" model, which is not a tube OTL and in fact uses a solid state output stage. It is rated at 85W into 8 ohms and 115W into 4 ohms, FWIW.

My comments on a speaker candidate were provided in that thread.

Regards,
-- Al

"I think you would like the Wilson Benesch Vector speakers. Not well known in the US but world wide presence. Our shop has easily driven them with 40 watts tube amplifiers. The midrange is exquisite, wired directly to your Einstein amplifiers ( no crossover ) and they cover almost the entire midrange from 400 Hz to 5000 kHz. A good review on their website wilson-benesch.com. If you can't down load it I can email it to you."

More sales shacking.........

Shakey