A dealer told me that he will let people audition 1 pair of speakers for free. If you want to hear multiply speakers he charges 500.00. If you buy a pair of speakers he will credit you back the 500.00. He says he does this so people don't waste his time. He says If someone is serious about purchasing speakers they won't have a problem with the 500.00 deposit. I'm Interested in knowing how the Audiogon community feels about this.
I have been in sales all my life and I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody said they were just looking and left with the item in tow. Put a god presentation together with a nice friendly, caring, helping attitude and you can turn lookers into buyers. It happens everyday.
It depends. In a store enviroment, absolutely not. Now if the dealer delivered the speakers to your house, and help set every thing up for a home auditionm, then I could see the dealer charging a fee, for his time and effort. Of course, one would expect that if the individual bought the speakers, that the fee would be applied to the cost of the speakers.
After reading all your posts I've decided to pass on the 500.00 audition. I'm going to buy speakers that I can audition for free. I did call the company that produces the speaker in question. They told me that they dropped that dealer due to his business practices. When I told him about the 500.00 audition he wasn't surprised.
In retrospect, I can think of one instance in which it might be fair to charge for an audition: If one is asking a dealer to either order something from a line that he doesn't ordinarily carry or bring in an expensive reference piece from a line he does carry but will have to front the money himself, then I can understand his being concerned that if the sale doesn't go through, he might have to offer the item at a heavy discount in order to move it.
I kind of equate this to a car dealer asking to check your credit before giving a test drive. As a retailer be it car sales, high end audio or whatever you accept the fact that you will work really hard on a deal and not get it. When that happens no matter how unfair it is you have to put a smile on your face and move on to the next prospect.
I have a similar great experience with a salesman who was at a tweeter in chicago (suburbs). I went in to the store to buy some cheap head phones and ended up spending a couple hours in their hearing all kinds of different set ups. At the time I only had a Denon avr 3200(which I was pretty proud of,lol) but he showed me some serious stuff and opened up a few new worlds to me and raised the bar for me. In a nut shell after that anything I could buy from him I did at full asking price, which I was happy to pay since its hard to find sales people of his caliber. Now I was still pretty small potatoes compared to many of his customers but I did my part.
Now however thanks partly to him I can only afford to buy the equipment I want used here or through other sources. But the point is his free demo for a 20.00 head phone customer earned him thousands in sales.
it might be worth it to pay for an audition in your stereo system, to avoid a serious mistake. the cost of an audition may be less than the loss accruing from resale of an expensive component.
Quite a few years ago I was looking for some video gear and entered a high end video/audio retailer here in NYC to see what they had. The owner informed me it was a $50 fee (good towards any purchases) to demo.
I didn't go ahead with it, since most or all of the gear would have been out of my price range at the time. But especially on video gear, I could see so many people getting his recommendation, then buying mail order. I think now I would gladly pay $50 for guidance through a complex purchase, and to be able to see state of the art gear.
That being said I have recently made my foray into being a dealer for a select few pieces of gear. Luckily this is not my main source of income, so I suspect that I will be dealing with many of the challenges outlined here retailers face.
Taters, I was sounding off before carefully reading your post.
I guess this dealer is so busy tallying their sales slips in these robust economic times that they don't have time for mere "shoppers". If they were working at the shoe counter at Nordstroms and you wanted to try every pair "for fun", on a Saturday, I could see where you could be stretching their Customer First policy. But this dealer must be selling big buck boxes if they think $500 is an appropriate ante to get in their door, and I would think they would be kissing your rear to even darken the entrance these days.
I might be a chronic tire kicker and so perhaps a target for this kind of "really great service", but I continue to buy gear in brick and mortar shops. Since I travel a fair bit, I also go to stores in different towns that carry equipment I don't have access to hear in my home town, or even combination's of gear I have not heard together before. I always state whether or not I am actually in the market to buy something. Sometimes I am, sometimes not. I value the shopkeepers opinions since they usually know much more than me and are enthusiastic about their products and my interest. But I do not value their insights to the tune of 5 "C" notes.
Adding to what Theo said, I would want that model to be handing me $50 glasses of wine with my demo. Maybe if I drank enough I would actually buy something from them...
Yes, some people do use dealers to demo, then buy used cheaper. BIG DEAL. I'll gladly pay MORE to someone else than the dealer is charging, before I give 5.00 away, let alone 500.00 The 500.00 is no guarantee you'll like the speakers. This is not nor ever will be a good practice. Does a dealer ever guarantee speakers? New if something goes wrong? No, you only get a warantee.
I wonder what this dealer's policy is with past customers who made reasonably sized purchases. There is one local dealer who was guarded until I bought a couple things and now they are very open to auditions. My position is that unless a dealer invites me, I don't ask to audition unless I have genuine intentions of buying that specific item from them in the near future.
For me paying a small fee which refunded on buying is OK. After all the retailer also need to invest in buying these speakers, running the showroom, paying the cleaning ladies etc.
I guess that retailers have learned their lessons from audition with potential customers to find out that these customers then buy them online
I would pay for real service - eg, if the dealer brought speaker to my home, set it up etc.
I would also pay "rent" if I needed to evaluate them at my home for an unusually long time.
If he loaned them to me for a few days and I had to carry and set them up myself, then I wouldn't pay anything except perhaps leave a deposit if requested.
I would not pay for in-store demos. Showing something you are trying to sell is part of retail. The customer may not buy or buy elsewhere - all retailers take that chance and those who can't should not be in retail.
Weisberg - that's good point. The problem is that I won't ask dealer without listening and he can still hold my money if we won't agree. I would just stay away from such places. They prices are often insane because they have high overhead caused by lower sales that are caused by high prices to start with. The name for that is greed. I would always pay, let say 10% more for the expertise but not more than that. Internet is helping to level the field and get rid of greedy or just plain bad dealers - a very positive process.
Another point to remember is that in sales the object is too make the sale and not everyone will pay full price. So smart dealers do just that, Make deals. I have purchased some of my ARC gear new from a dealer who wanted to make a sale, even if not at list. I prefer to purchase cd players especially new with a warantee if the used to new spread is not that great.
Is it even legal? Are there any lawyers here? If car dealer would charge me $500 to let me test drive a car and would not return the money if I decide I don't like it that would be illegal and I would report him. New car dealer doesn't have license to rent cars or perform similar service. I'm pretty sure audio dealer cannot force me to buy something I don't like by holding my money either. I would report it to authorities and reveal his name on the forum. Any lawyers here?
How can any dealer assume that because he didn't make a sale that someone is running to the internet to buy it online? I am sure it happens, but how does the dealer know that maybe that person decided to go to another dealer that was more pleasant and had a better attitude! There is no other industry where prospective buyers are treated this way! Most of the gear on Audiogon is used, so I don't see how Arbuckle's post appplies in this instance. If I was in that situation, I would write a letter to the equipment maker and let them know that I was very interested in their gear, but the dealer I went to wanted $500 from me to audition it. I wonder how that wouild go over! I have read a few posts where people want to establish a relation with a dealer and you can't get that from the internet. Who would want a relationship with a jerk like this? Many people just want to purchase something and a working relationship with a dealer is not part of their plan. It doesn't matter whether the $500 would be applied to the purchase, that is just bad business, and a lot of BS.
On the whole, dealers are their own worst enemies. How many times has it been said on this forum, that putting together a system with all of its components contributing to their full potential, requires a lot more effort than just opening ones wallet. I've had enough dealings with audio retailers to think quite little of most of them. Come on guys, I'll bet we all heard some of the pretty crappy systems that resulted from people putting their faith and bank accounts in the hands of dealers who turned out to be little more than fast talking order takers. I'll bet there are many more music lovers than there are audio hobbyists, and if retailers would get their heads straight and were willing to do the kind of work necessary to establish trust and long term good will, they'd find that Audiogon and the used/discount market would have negligible impact on their business.
"most people on this site USE dealers to demo equipment, then come here to buy it used or from someone selling new at used prices to save some cash when they had zero intentions on buying new"
Arbuckle, How do you know this? What statistically reliable methodology did you use, in order to feel confident enough to insult the majority of audiogon's members?
Arbuckle you have a point.Some will take advantage of the audition right,knowing they will not buy,thats wrong.When I go to the store,I just look around,if the salesman ask me to listen to their new speakers,then I will,most of the time I offer them lunch though but to pay them even 50 dollars,thats to stiff.
Give me a break....this is absolutely absurd to think the dealer is there to be used given what has happened in high end audio in the past 10 years.......most people on this site USE dealers to demo equipment, then come here to buy it used or from someone selling new at used prices to save some cash when they had zero intentions on buying new....hence wasting the dealers time and effectively shutting down the vast majority of the brick and mortars throughout the USA.
Then those same people have the balls to moan and complain when there are no dealers in their area to demo equipment. You CAN'T have your cake and eat it too......you people have done it to yourselves.
He sounds like he should be in the transmission repair industry. What happens if you agree and then discover that you don't like any of the speakers? Does he get to keep your money? I wouldn't be wasting my time with a dealer having that type of sales attitude and I would without question let everyone I knmow to avoid this establishment like the plague.
Maybe thats the only way,he can get rid of you.Sometimes salesman and dealers if you dont drive nice cars,they wont entertain you at all,I have experience that many times before,I cant imagine paying $500 just to audition. TVAD is right,here in ILLINOIS many audiostore are now out of business because they dont know ,what good costumer service.
I could see charging your credit card as a damage deposit, and refunding the money if the speakers are returned "on time" and undamaged. There is some risk for the proprietor in releasing his inventory - especially heavy, highly finished pieces of furniture with some delicate moving parts.
Hell no! Nobody locks me into anything! Cars, coins, stereos, hookers or anything else. Money IS the most important thing... period... There will always be something else (maybe better) for sale. Maybe the items for audition aren't as good as they are bragged up to be, and the seller is using the deposit for an excuse, to take the place of wasted time. I'll waste my time or anyone elses, before I waste my money. Time may be money to some, but SAVED money is more valuable than time that hasn't happened yet. Good luck to all!
If he had every speaker you could buy then it might seem less insane but I can't help thinking
'What if you don't like any of the speakers he sells?'
Would you lose your $500.
Let's say you really liked a Thiel speaker another dealer has and he has some speakers in the same price range but doesn't sell Thiel. After listening, what if you preferred the Thiel but now you are forced to buy a speaker you think less of.
It's only a "waste of time" of the salesman if there is an opportunity cost associated with me auditioning in a B&M store. The store is open. It is staffed. If one is not interfering with a revenue or goodwill generating activity, then there is no "waste of time". I will not interfere in an opportunity for them to demo equipment or make a sale.
On the very rare instance I actually step into a B&M store, I make it very clear that I'm just checkin' out what's new, and not interested in purchasing. I do believe that it is completely unethical to demo locally and then buy used on-line.
I would never purchase from a dealer that charged to evaluate his goods. I go out of my way to avoid bad business practices - I drove 4 1/2 hours to buy most of my gear at list price to avoid a dealer that was only 30 minutes away (and may have even discounted).
When i purchased my first wattpuppies i went to the store and ended buying both used on audiogon and also a new pair of 7's from the dealer. You just never know when i buyer might change hhis mind and buy new. Sometimes a good salesperson can turn lookers into buyers!
As far as buying a car without driving them isnt the same as speakers. I have purchased all kinds of speakers over the net without ever hearing them. If you buy them right enough you wont lose much if you decide to sell them in the future anyway.
I live in Lansing Michigan and the vast majority of the speakers I am interested in are miles and miles away
The dealer charging $500 to auditon speakers ought to get out of the business. Sounds like he is on his way as we speak!
I wouldn't waste a dealers time to set up speakers if I already knew I was going to buy used. Instead, buy the speakers used and audition them at home to see if they are keepers. Pack em up and sell them for a marginal loss, or perhaps a profit if they aren't your cup of tea.
If the speakers are already set up and you want an audition, it should be no charge, but if the dealer has to go out of his way to setup and position two large full range speakers and he knows that there isn't a sale, then his time is wasted.
I bet this policy is based on the customer as others have mentioned. However, I would find another dealer if you are a repeat customer and this policy still applies.
Some good points are brought up on Mt10425's post. Dealers are representing the manufacturer's line and i assume it is at their discretion to demo stock for out of towners who are upfront and honest with their intentions. I have found several dealers in other cities who are "team players" so to speak and look at the larger picture of promoting the line and sacrificing a little of their time,providing they have it,to introduce someone to a new product. Getting to the real point -Find out which speaker lines are being carried by this dealer -contact those companies and detail this policy to them. I bet the next time you go in there will be no "kill fee" for auditions and hopefully a better attitude- this is the kind of stuff that drives these manufacturers nuts and drives customers away from snotty dealers like this. Take the time and contact these people. You will be doing everybody down the line a favor. The consumer still has the last word!
Take the $500 and invest it in a trip to Denver this fall for the RMAF. There you can audition as many speakers as you like, talk to the designers and leave feeling like you got your money's worth.
What happens if you don't like any of the speakers in the dealer's arsenal? You just handed over $500 and leave a fool.
Please let us know the name of the dealer so I can be sure not to waste MY time visiting him. If I wanted to pay to audition speakers I would try several I.D. brands... after all aren't you "paying" to audition them by returning them at your expense ?
I heard a similar story from another traveling A-goN'r concerning Hanson Audio in Dayton, OH. Interestingly enough, I'm only an hour away from Dayton and I had never heard of Hanson.
I think we need to invite Kevin and company to join our Cincinnati Audio club. We've got more than a few BUYERS here in Cincinnati and I'm sure there are more in Dayton. It would be great to do something to help out a dealer of this calibre.
In my opinion that is a deal breaker; I would even think of calling the speaker manufacturer and dropping a dime on the dealer; I don't see how a manufacturer would support this sales approach;just my opinion though.
I just visited some relatives in Dayton Ohio. As I always do in new cities, I shop for vinyl and try to scope out audio I don't have access to at home. I went into Hanson Audio and met Kevin. I stated my circumstance and intent was to listen (I never said buy) to some equipment I had only read about before in the Hi-Fi mags. He seemed glad I was there and asked if I had a couple of hours, which I did. He auditioned equipment in four different rooms (including $30,000 Focals) and even allowed me to help carry some speakers/stands from the showfloor downstairs to setup and listen (Thiels, I believe). We discussed what we both heard differently and liked/disliked. I had a great time and heard some terrifc stuff (I was truly enamored with the Pathos/Dunlevy setup). He also provided directions to the record store and said if I found something good, bring it back and could check out the analog equipment. Kevin said his job wasn't to sell, but to educate about audio. He certainly taught me about a place I'd drive seven hours to spend my audio money. Thanks Hanson Audio.
Then, just tell him you wanedt to hear those Myrtle block footers, not the speakers.
so to date, hes tallied up what . One of those fees? Or is it none? Id vote for the latter.
I wouldnt pay $500 in Monopoly money to listen in the store for 10 minutes or less to any speaker amp etc.
Ridiculous! Out right rude too. You sure you havent irritated this guy somehow? Does he have a sign up which says as much? Or does he just pull that stunt on unqualified time wasters? If he doesnt have a sign up indicating such practices, its probably personal.
Without posting such business policies, and making it up as he goes along, Id post the name and location of this business and said policy, online. Just so others would have a chance to drop by their bank prior to experiencing any inconvenience or embarrassment while at the store sort of a public service notification, so to speak . Then send him an email with a link to the post.
Business men like that do need our support, and we should let them have it.
As kurk tank says, the problem for High End dealers is the dreamers and tyre kickers. Too many of us go for demos for a mornings enertainment and a free coffee. As far as I am concerned, I never trouble a dealer for a dem, unless I am at least planning a purchase and FROM A DEALER. Having said that, tyre kickers are part of the landscape a dealer has to live in, I would have thought. If you do'nt like it, find another job. There is an excellent retailer of very very Low FI in the uk, selling kit for next to nothing, Richer Sounds. They are always helpful, no trouble with dems. They have a big notice in their stores " The customer is alweays right. Even when he is wrong, the customer is always right"
The 500.00 he was asking for wasn't for a home demo. In fact he never said a word about a home demo. He wanted 500.00 If I wanted to demo more than one speaker system. He said that his time is valuable and he should be paid for it. He said he used to do speaker demos all the time but the people would just go on the net and buy them cheaper or find them used. That's why he now charges the 500.00 demo fee.
This day and age, dealers should be quite excited to have someone (speakerkicker or not) coming into their showroom and expressing ANY interest at all! Just forces them to get off the internet or their ass and enjoy something. Music.
Well I may be wrong but I would guess that If you really were interested in those speakers and the dealer really thought you would buy them at a pre set price. I would bet he would let you demo them for free.
Since you have been an agon member for quite a while I am guessing that he knows you are not likely to buy from him anyway.
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