Would you pay more than 25% of MSRP for a used cartridge?

I personally would not purchase a used cartridge. It is a very fragile piece of technology. There is no way to know how much it has been used, This is me… actually I don’t touch a cartridge… my dealer does. My rule of thumb is buy nothing used with moving parts. So, no CD players. Audio equipment with no moving parts can be a great deal.

That is me. The pull of a good deal has been offset by the disappointment of the failure of what I bought… when I was young.

I find it difficult to purchase used consumables, used tubes same issue for me. Wouldn't it be great if they could build in some kind of hour counter on these consumables.

I seriously doubt that anyone would sell you a high-end cartridge (> $3k) "low hour" cartridge for 25% of MSRP - highly unlikely.  Maybe a Denon 103, but nothing more.  Buying used cartridges is risky, but people do buy used cartridges. The popular models get snatched up quickly like the A95, XV-1S etc,. If the seller had excellent feedback and it was a model I wanted, I'd pay more than 50 % for a "low-hour" (< 200 hrs) cartridge.

lemme guess. you low-balled a seller at 25% of retail for a scarce and hard to get cartridge that rarely shows up new let alone used. you were then turned down multiple times by many sellers. your rationale is that all sellers are liars and not to be trusted re claimed hours of use, etc. got it. 

I guess as audiophiles, we’re all gonna be OCD about SOME things - but hopefully not all things. I’ve been pretty relaxed about buying high-end used cartridges. If the seller has good feedback here, I’ll trust them - especially if they look like a hobbyist who knows what they’re doing. It’s generally worked out pretty well for me. You want to see pics that show at least two things:

1. A straight cantilever that is not askew, and if possible an "on record" pic to show it’s not riding too low.
2. That the previous owner(s) have practiced good cleaning hygiene. Particle "beards", a blackened stylus, or crust atop the cantilever are bad signs.

You could also be paranoid about L/R channel balance, but the only cartridge I’ve encountered yet with an imbalance of >= 1dB was 30 years old.

The last cartridge I bought used was an Ortofon A90 from here - and I forget the actual price but I guess ~40% of MSRP? It's a real gem; if anything the seller undersold it. 

I just bought a used cart here. Ortofon Cadenza Bronze. Great deal. About 40% off list give or take, these carts never go on sale. It’s a good way to try different sounds. As with anything mechanical, buy the seller, not the item. In this case, the cart was a dealer’s personal cart. Listening to it right now. Excellent!

i have purchased many used cartridges

it is all about doing homework on the seller, knowing when to back off/move on... and buying the potentially risky ones in a way that allows proper recourse in the worst case scenario

“Caveat emptor” is good advice for probably more than 2000 years. “Trust but verify” also is a good motto. Get a pre-purchase inspection done by an expert. If someone like Peter Ledermann or our Needlestein confirms low use and perfect structure. I’d be all in. Such a specimen is worth much more than 25% of MSRP, to me, if I want it. If a seller won’t agree to a PPI, done at my expense, I’m not a buyer at any price.

+1 @jjss49 

Though I am thankful for those who won't buy used cartridges or tubes, etc. BTW isn't a demo also used?

It’s an individual choice.  If paying over 25% for a used cartridge is over your comfort level, that’s okay.  Ultimately, the market dictates used prices, not a individual post.  

Would never get a used cartridge as the 100 hours routine is getting very old.

I bought a DL 304. Used it 4 times, the fifth time I set it down the cantilever snapped, and Im very careful. I would budget a rebuild on any used cart purchase again, haven't made one since. 

Yes. I recently purchased a $5500 van den Hul Crimson XGW Stradivarius for $2100. The seller had 100 percent feedback with lots of sales and works at a local hi-fi store. The cartridge if fantastic and if it wasn’t, I’m sure the seller would have made it right, or worst case I could have sent it to Van Den Hul for a very affordable rebuild.

Another time I bought a different Van Den Hul (MC Two Special) and when I received it there was no diamond on the cantilever. The seller (a trusted dealer I have purchased from many times) gave me a full refund and I sent the cart Van Den Hul and had it rebuilt.

I also got a great deal on near perfect Soundsmith Aida II, which again could have been sent to Soundsmith for an affordable rebuild in the worst case.

There's also Andy Kim.  I bought a turntable that had a Zu Denon DL 103 on it, which sounded horrible.  I sent it to Andy and he confirmed that it had a number of issues on it.  After he worked his magic, it is now my 2nd most favorite cartridge at a fraction of the price of a number of other carts I own.

Even in the worst case, with many carts you can have a like new cart for half or less the price of a new one if you're willing to have it retipped.

I did something similar with a Shure V15 that I bought with a broken stylus.  I bought a JICO SAS and voila', a great MM for little money.

I would only consider upto 50% MSRP for used if:

1. The cartridge is a current model and no more than 1 year old. I don't want some old thing sitting around for years.
2. The seller was a retipper or had extensive feedback from selling similar kind of cartridges.

Otherwise I will just assume it needs a retip and not worth more than 25% MSRP.

Here’s where everyone trots out his or her individual experiences buying used cartridges. As to the issue of cost, I forgot to point out that many cartridges that are out of production are now valued much higher than their original MSRP. For those cartridges, there is virtually no relationship between the used value and the MSRP. In my opinion, it’s foolish to make a hard rule about what the valuation of a used cartridge should be in relation to its MSRP. Each case is unique.

12inch, you have no idea what you’re missing if you completely rule out “old things”.

Agree with most that used cartridges are too risky to buy. Many dealers will give you 20% discount so just buy new.

Agree with most that used cartridges are too risky to buy. Many dealers will give you 20% discount so just buy new.

Sure, but when I was younger 20 - 25% off a Koetsu still didn’t make it affordable to me. I bought my first Koetsu used, and it gave me a big taste of the high end, which I continue to enjoy today. Bought my next Koetsu used too, and also loved it. At some times the used price of a high end cartridge with "~ 300 hours" has been low enough that even when adding the cost of a factory rebuild, it still comes out to a new cartridge at ~ 20% off list. And the used Koetsu I bought from here definitely didn’t need to be rebuilt for a while. I’ve since bought new ones & had factory rebuilds - the used ones definitely sounded like they should.

As others have stated, it’s fine that so many in this market are reticent to buy a used cartridge - it makes better deals for the rest of us. On the other hand, it sucks when selling, but I don’t do that much 😅

noted.

@mulveling Thing is nobody pays MSRP. More like 80% MSRP is common. So your used cartridge with rebuild that came out to 80% of MSRP is the same as just buying new but without any warranty and a lot of risk and hassle.

@mulveling Thing is nobody pays MSRP. More like 80% MSRP is common. So your used cartridge with rebuild that came out to 80% of MSRP is the same as just buying new but without any warranty and a lot of risk..

My point was having the rebuild option as a fallback helps mitigate the risk, IF everything else goes to crap, which it usually doesn’t. And how often is warranty meaningful with cartridges? Most deaths are caused by user error or eventual wear. I suppose you guys have never gambled or bought a lotto ticket either lol.

I bought a Koetsu Onyx ~350 hours for $3k when MSRP was 9 or 10, it sounded amazing, got years of use, then I had it rebuilt by Koetsu Japan like new and the total outlay was still less than a discounted new one. It was a GREAT deal.

ebm:

"Would never get a used cartridge as the 100 hours routine is getting very old"

I use a clicker to count sides.

Obviously not 100% accurate for actual hours played but it will give me a pretty good idea +- later on 

I'm down with no pre-owned moving parts. That applies for speakers too but careful audition/inspection can override it for them.

I’ve just never done it. Won’t either.

One method to avoid upset is to arrange an agreement between Vendor, Buyer and a Third Party, who is to receive the Cartridge, the Third Party will need to be recognised for being able to assess the condition of the Cartridge and the assessment will be the agreed guidance for the establishing the condition.

If all appears to be as described in the Ad, then the Cart' can be paid for as agreed.

If the Cart' does not meet the adverts description on condition, the Cart' can be returned to the Vendor, or an alternative arrangement might be agreed on the outcome of the assessment.

This obviously incurs an extra cost, for the assessment and the extra shipping.

If I were to be keeping the Cart' as a result of the inspection/assessment, I would request a through cleaning of the assembly, and this will usually be a charge that has the inspection offset against the overall cost.   

I have done this in the past with a Cart' and the outcome was fine, this Cart' eventually become a donor for a rebuild as the Cart' was without any concerning issues when re-inspected.

On another occasion I sent many of the supplied images of the Cart' to a respected Third Party Service and was given a reassurance that their was nothing noticeably concerning from the photo evidence. I accepted the evaluation and own this Cartridge as a result.

I always do this arrangement when buying vintage valves, the Vendor agrees to my having the Valves re-tested.

This has proved to be very prudent, as a few low measurements have been discovered by the Third Party Service that I use. In this case the service is only a short drive away from my home, and is a fellow HiFi enthusiast.

Plenty of good advice here.

It's always a bigger gamble buying used but there are a few tips I've gathered along the way.

As my brother often said it a good idea to look at the seller of a used car as much as the car itself and the same rule can be generalized here.

The more information you are presented with the better. It's amazing how folks selling used phones and tablets etc still somehow forget to mention that the rechargeable battery is now nearer to 50% than 100%.

Like everyone else I'd usually want a much bigger markdown for when buying something with plenty moving parts where wear and tear is more critical.
Even a well looked after Lexus or Toyota will fetch a lot less if its mileage is high. (Yes, I've been watching too many Scotty Kilmer videos).

So I'd never consider paying more than 50% for any used cartridge.

As said earlier there's always going to be some risk involved, so yes buyer beware. Every seller is aware that no matter how honest they try to be there's no real way of knowing when some part is about to fail.

I've never bought a used a used cartridge, nor sold one for that matter, but if I did I'd do well to remember the advice given above by @mulveling 

It's worth repeating again as it's not just the tips that wear, the suspension can also wear or get damaged by one too many careless needledrops.

You want to see pics that show at least two things:

1. A straight cantilever that is not askew, and if possible an "on record" pic to show it’s not riding too low.
2. That the previous owner(s) have practiced good cleaning hygiene. Particle "beards", a blackened stylus, or crust atop the cantilever are bad signs.

I don’t have a problem buying used as long as you buy the seller.

also if local... that’s a plus.

50%.

Through detailed conversations within the past five years, the way I have come to understand the initial concern about the condition of the Cartridge is to investigate the Bobbin Assembly.

This is quite different to my old thoughts and methods to be only concerned about the Stylus condition, Mounting! > Wear ! 

In a Layman description, the Cantilever Anchors to the Bobbin Assembly and sets up the mechanical operation that will enable the Stylus to perform as per the designed for operation.

Any compromised materials discovered at this place in the assembly will be detrimental to the overall performance.

Hence, my skill set does not reach to this level, so I farm the inspection out to a much more reliable assessment, the bonus is the Stylus will also be evaluated along with other materials within the assembly.

When it is viewed with this in mind a Third Party Inspection starts to show its real value to the buyer. 

The many negative posts here underline the belief that everyone's dishonest.

Sad.

I misbought an Anna four years ago.  It's too heavy for my very light parallel tracking arm.  I ran it less than 20 hours (yes really).   It just didn't gel.

So I marketed it at half retail.  Guess what?  No takers.

I fitted it on my second TT with a heavy Zeta arm and it runs great.  But I hardly ever listen to it.

@clearthinker Why didn't you return your Anna if it wasn't a good match? I would think if you are buying new then that includes a no questions asked return policy.

Even when I buy used I make sure the seller is ok with returns . It's always the dishonest ones who push-back about that.

I wouldn’t pay 25% over MSRP for anything.

^ You pay for what you get!

Take it to a specialist with a good microscope.  The specialist can tell you the condition of the stylus, the suspension and the magnet coil assembly if it is a "naked" body cartridge.  Retipping and rebuilding cartridges are expensive services.  Caveat emptor.  The cartridge could have been dropped, dragged across a record, bounced off the turntable or misaligned in the tonearm.

If a Cartridge rebuild service chipped in with their discoveries made on a Cartridge that an owner thought was in quite good condition, and was surprised at the assessment offered as part of the Inspection.

I am sure there will be few descriptions of a discovery made that will be hard to accept as being for real.

The 'fragility' of the Cartridge is the concern, and is possibly the main reason that requires a special attention to ensure the overall function is being considered when purchasing one either new or used.

A new cartridge can not have have come through the stages of delivery in the finest of condition. When received it could have developed a fault. A Cart' can also have slipped through a usually rigorous QA check prior to being packaged. 

Combine the above with usage to what ever degree, and the variables can increase substantially for a Cart's function not being as per the designed for operation.

There is absolutely no harm in treading carefully and finding the method that can be most satisfactory to the buyer, for proving their monies are being spent quite sensibly. 

Individuals who spend less on a used vehicle than some would spend on a used Cart' would not think it strange to consider or action the vehicle to undergo a third party vetting.