Wilson Audio Sabrina . . . I'm smitten. Should I consider others?
Went on a small audition trek last week and heard the following:
Tekton Double Impact SE (I was curious based on the posts/comments) Magico S1 MKII Magico S3 MKII Devore Fidelity Orangutan 0/96 Wilson Audio Sabrina
The Wilson Sabrinas were not initially on my list, but when I stumbled across them while searching for Focal Sopra 2s, I couldn't resist. The Sabrinas were very impressive. In fact, after hearing the Magico S1 and S3, I went back to hear the Sabrinas a second time to confirm what I had heard. They were initially driven by the ARC Ref6 preamp and the new ARC $30K monoblocks, but the second trip I asked if they could be driven by more economical equipment, so they used the LS28 and VT80. The source was the dCS Rossini both times. Because there was no A/B comparison of equipment, I really didn't notice any drop off in performance.
The Sabrina's price point is my upper end, but I'd like to achieve a no stone unturned level of search/comfort before I pull the trigger. Most brands are not easily accessible in Kansas City, but I'm willing to make the effort if justified. Are there any other loudspeakers I should consider in this range? I listen mostly to older rock, blues, jazz, and female vocals Streaming with something like an Aurender A10 will be my primary source. My goal is to decide on the loudspeakers for this system, and work backwards into the components. That'll be a future question. Appreciate your time and help.
Visited Mike Kaye at Audio Archon to hear the Tekton Double Impact SE. Listened to the Magicos with Jamie Pauls at F1 Audio. Auditioned the Wilson Sabrinas with David Weintraub and Mick Survance at Quintessence Audio. Drove a little out of my way going home to visit Charley Schnyder at Stereo Haven to hear the DeVore Fidelity 0/96. Everyone was polite, professional, and gracious. They all represented the audio industry extremely well. I would not hesitate to do business with any of them.
I think I may already know the answer, but I will audition Vandersteen Quattro CTs and Jospeh Audio Perspectives early this week. I’d like to hear Focal Sopra 2s and I wish I’d had a better audition of DeVore 0/96s. The Sabrinas just do everything I want in a way that appeals to me.
I’m looking forward to your view of the JA Perspective speakers. I believe I’ll be ordering a pair soon after an extensive bunch of speaker auditioning. But then, they fit the criteria I’m juggling, one of which is to downsize from a larger speaker due to my listening space. The Perspectives are designed to sound bigger than they look, especially in terms of bass, but I still doubt they will upend your desire for the Sabrinas, given you seem pretty smitten. (And I’d think the Sabrinas by sound more authoritatively larger).
The main thing that grabs me about the Joseph Audio sound is the purity of tone, the utter lack of any grain or electronic haze. Instrumental tone and timbre just seems to come through like looking at colorful pebbles and flora through a perfectly clean stream. If something like that grabs me, I find it hard to give it up.
The Devore O/96 requires a fairly large listening space and the ability to sit a reasonable distance from the speakers. They do fine along the long wall of my16 by 21 room about 9 feet from my seat, but they sounded even better in the dealer's room, which was twice the size. Obviously speakers are a very personal experience, as evidence by some of the reactions in this thread to the Devore. I've owned about 20 brands of speakers and the O/96 is by far my favorite.
Don’t forget if you aren’t happy with the Perspective’s sound at first (tonal balance or whatever) to experiment with seating distance, spread, toe in etc.
Due to their crossover/driver design, they remain very coherent even up close so you can sit closer to the JA speakers than some of the other designs you are looking at.
As I said, I doubt they will supplant the Wilson speakers for you, but you’ll probably notice some nice aspects to the Perspective’s sound. Their sense of detail tends to not come from pushing detail at you so much as just being clean and clear. The exact nature of hall ambiences, reverbs used in recordings etc really comes through on the Perspectives due to their "low haze" factor. (Of course if you sit too far from any speaker, even the perspectives, the reflected room sound can overwhelm such a feature in a speaker).
I have the A3 in my system for about a week now. I am playing it with the Pass INT-250. All I can say is WOW! They have much more bass then the S1 (of course they are 3-way), and they go much deeper than the Sabrina. The Sabrinas are warmer, but also fuzzier (definitely not more define), after sometime I got tired of it. It is true, everything sounds OK, but never exceptional, and also kind of the same. The Sabrina is not as transparent as the A3.
The most recent great sounding speakers I’ve owned do measure perfectly flat, if measuring the outside cabinet walls, all of which are perfectly flat except the speaker baffle that has the speakers stuck into it...flat...all flat. Note that the curved cabinets of some speakers are not flat...they measure more curvy than otherwise.
The plot thickens a bit. Heard the Sabrinas again (fourth time) at the original audio dealer. They haven't lost anything for me. Also auditioned the Revel PerformaBe F228BE elsewhere. They surprised me (in a good way). Visited Legacy Audio to hear the Focus XD. Instead heard the Focus SE and really liked what I heard. Despite having some internet issues, the Focus sounded promising, and Bill and Brice were great. Returning home, I researched Legacy Audio and Focus. Most say to hear/consider the Aeris instead. I should have been better prepared. So, here's what I've now listened to, ranked favorite to least, and what I'd like to hear before a final decision is made:
Wilson Audio Sabrina
Legacy Audio Focus SE
Bowers & Wilkins 802 D3
Joseph Audio Perspective
Magico S3 MKII
Vandersteen Quattro CT
Revel PerformaBe F228Be
Magico S1 MKII
DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/96
Tekton Double Impact SE
Left to hear:
Legacy Audio Aeris
Magnepan 20.7
Joseph Audio Pearl 3
Focal Sopra 2 or Sopra 3
Any constructive input is welcomed. I really want to get this right. I'm not going to rush.
That you preferred the B&Ws to the Perspectives or Quattros has me a little stunned. I was able to listen to several B&W and JA speakers in the same system, and there wasn't anything the B&Ws did better than the JAs, especially imaging and soundstage. Obviously we all hear differently and there are likely lots of variables here, but wow. Be very interested in your impressions of the Pearl 3s. Only heard them at shows, but they're one of my very few end-game speakers. You've got a really great list of speakers here, and I look forward to any other observations you have.
I completely understand what you're saying. First, I'm no audiophile. I don't know exactly what I like until I hear it. Also, I'm learning to be a little frustrated with some auditions. It's clear that some folks know exactly what to do and how to do it, and others do not. As with many things in life, a good audition of a less product goes along way compared to a bad audition of a good product. When I started this, I really didn't know what to expect, and while I'm a long way from having a great understanding of it all, I've learned just enough to know when it's a good audition.
more variables and auditions are not going to help, especially with no reference back to live music. Nobody got fired for buying Wilson and it sounds like you have a willing and supportive dealer....
1) Speakers are very personal, there are speakers on your list I do not like, and some I love, but all of them are well regarded, so it really has to do with what you like best.
2) It is really, really, really hard to compare speakers from dealer to dealer. Dealer showrooms all sound different, and in turn your room will make the speakers sound different. I have used Magnepans for 20+ years. I have heard them sound terrible in dealer rooms more times than good, and had I not heard them well set up, would have never tried them.
3) I am a big mail order person and like buying used. You are in the situation where I think spending the extra money on a local dealer is well worth it. It needs to be a dealer that is willing to help you setup and dial in your speakers, as well match equipment, and be able to provide demos in your house. You are spending a lot, it should be optimized.
4) I would burn a CD with a variety of music you listen too, including poorly mixed music. Use this for your demos for consistency. It will also help you evaluate whether a potential speaker is livable with less than well recorded music.
Great points. I especially need to burn a CD as I've relied on a Tidal playlist and encountered two dealers that couldn't access Tidal when I went to audition.
I have 3.5s which I just had rebuilt, so older. They work great with a Rythmik sub, but they really are a speaker people tend to love or hate. Generally people who like Maggies like Vandersteens also. I also found the new Revel F36 to sound really good (used a pair while my Maggies were being rebuilt). The older Salons were also good sounding, haven’t heard the newer midline, but always like Kevin Vocks designs from when he was at Snell.
Auditioned two more from my list, the Magnepan 20.7 and the Legacy Aries. Was also able to hear the Magico A3, albeit not yet fully broken in. Auditioned the Maggies in a less than desirable situation. Small room with the speakers only spread about 7’ and seating just about 6’ away, plus Roon lost connection so many times that I lost count. Made it difficult to concentrate. I would really love to hear these properly set up and ideal circumstances, because as is, they don’t make the top five.
The Legacy Aries audition was similar. The dealer is not moving forward with their Legacy line and so the Aries had been removed from their set ups. They were hastily reset and connected. I won’t bore you with the details, but as much as I wanted to love these, I expected to love these, but it was not to be based on this audition. We also heard some Audio Physics loudspeakers with Zesto components and a complete Gold Note rig. Both sounded better, with some really great sound from Gold Note, although asethitically the walnut GN were not my cup of tea.
Finally, heard the Magico A3 with an Octiv integrated and a Lumin streamer. Simple system and the A3 really surprised me, although they have not yet fully broken in. Honestly, I liked them better than the S1MKII. The were articulate with better base extension and had a really meaty midrange.
Nothing has Yet to unseat the Wilson Sabrina so far. Next week I hope to hear the Vandersteen Quattro CT and Joseph Audio Perspective with some Ayre equipment. I really want to love something from my local dealer. I’d also like to hear the PAP Quintet15 with the horns, and I’d like to see if I could get down south to hear the JA Pearl 3. Then it will be done and I’ll have exhausted my search and feel good about my decision.
Your quest sounds like my quest that I've written about in my own thread. I sometimes go through obsessively exhaustive searches when I'm going to replace a pair of speakers.
Looking forward to hearing about your final auditions and your choice.
6 months since your last update, did you settle on a pair of speakers? Personally been trying to upgrade from a 15 year old pair of speakers for about 5 years now really gave me an appreciation and understanding for the law of diminishing returns!
I have a bad case of analysis paralysis. Three or four pair of speakers were added to my list to audition, that are proving difficult to hear. I hope to remedy this with a trip to AXPONA next week, although the Sabrina are still my favorite.
I spent Friday and Saturday auditioning speakers. Finally after 14 years of being happy with my Avalons, I hear that it is time for a change. I was a Spectral owner for 20 years. The Spectral gear was great with my Avalons. Now, I sold the Spectral gear. I just got tired of Rick Fryer saying that the new stand alone phonostage was coming and coming and coming. Enough ! I had the Spectral 30SV preamp (magical preamp BTW) but something went wrong and it would not play well with my Manley Steelhead or my Pass XOno. Time to move on. So Pass it is.
Since I have changed almost my entire system, Pass electronics, Two new TTs, brought my DAT tape deck out of storage, having a Teac R2R rebuilt. Looking to replace my 28 year old CDP. My dedicated room is Fully treated with ASC tube traps, Vicoustic, Acoustic and GIK diffussors. Sounds better then ever. Thought that, I should at least listen and consider new speakers. What an eye/ear opener the last 2 days were.
I had wanted to listen to Rockports for the last 2 years and saw my chance at a dealer that I did not know in Chicago. By Appointment Only. Saw his Ad. Well Rockports have great tone, Zero imaging. Rockports are off the list. Paradigm, beryllium Tweet and Mids, and alloy woofs, just too bright and forward for me. Focal, Sopras 2 and 3, Very Good, Maybe the best. My wife and I came away, being most impressed by Wilson, Sabrinas. The word that kept coming out of us was; LIVE ! After, Axpona this coming weekend, we should know or be very close to a home audition and final decision.
Wilson Sabrina - Live is the word stuck in our minds.
The other thing, that came up with the auditions, Streaming Only ! No CDPs, no TTs. Streaming Only. Yes, It does sound good but when the dealer says you can listen to anything you want and then cannot produce it. How disappointing, especially when you brought your music on CDs and vinyl, and they could not play those either. We were so impressed with the new world order. Lots of apologies that they could not produce the music but also that the music that they could call up, was not the HI Res or whatever they thought they could. I am Sorry, is getting to be meaningless everywhere. The grocery store, Audio Auditions, ADT security, Xfinity home cable and internet, the hospital. You name it. I am sorry seems to be a good excuse everywhere these days. Does not mean that you will get a break on your bill, Just that they said that they were sorry. And pay your bill on time or you'll be sorry.
@nkonor - Go see Mick and Dave at Quintessence Audio. They’ll bend over backwards to play your music. While their primary way to demo is streaming, they are definitely analogue guys and have great tables. This is where I fell in love with Wilson Sabrinas. And I love your one word description . . . “Live”
@stringreen - Have heard well broken in Quattro CTs. Maybe I can hear them at Axpona this weekend. I’d love to hear them.
I know Mick since 1993. I bought my Spectral and Avalons from him. I the last 2 years, Mick has been to my house to mount cartridge, pickup gear and other things. He has been a good friend since my health issues started. Yes, I listened to a record played on his 'baby' AMG TT, with the optical cartridge he has mounted on it. Even with his HRS racks, the woofers on the Sabrina's were pumping. Must be a mismatch between arm and cartridge. I have heard the optical cartridge on his full size AMG with no problems.
Yes, Mick is a good dealer and Dave has been great, since he came on board.
"Live" is the word that still sticks in our heads for the Sabrina's
There are other dealers and New dealers in the Chicago area. Mick at Quintessence Audio is still one of the best. Audio Consultants lost another store. I think, Evanston is the only one left. I hear Pro Musica lost Mark and moved their location. Have not confirmed this myself yet.
We will see who is at Axpona this year. Ralph (Atmasphere, will not be there because they broke their contract with him.) I have not visited the new dealers in Chicago, due to my health issues and the fact that Mick has been there to help me through these terrible years
KCpellethead, you said "smitten", I said "crush". I'm spoiled though in that I work for a HiFi store in Kc called devAAudio. We have the SabrinaX, the Tune Tots, and Sasha DAW's. Soon we will have the Wilson AlexV's on display. Feel free to stop by, we have showroom hours now Tuesday-Friday 1-6, and Saturday 10-3. Hope you can make it, and if you need help working backwards, maybe we can help there too. www.devaaudio.com Bri West, devAAudio.
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