Will I benefit from a subwoofer with 20Hz speakers?

I bought the MiniDSP and returned it before the 30 day trial was up.  All the components in my system are many times the price of the Mini and it sounded like I had a really cheap preamp in the system when I put it in.  It gave me a wonderfully flat frequency response, but I hated the way it veiled the overall SQ.  I’m surprised so many people like it.

Here is a review of the speakers. In the 3rd paragraph it mentions the frequency range. 

I also included a couple of screenshots conforming it is 41 Hz. 

 

https://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/equipment-menu/356-cabasse-pacific-3-loudspeakers

 

 

https://postimg.cc/HVPKXbvs

 

 

 

Your 41HZ data is incorrect. But tell me? Do you not expect there to be dynamics in sound? Are you trying to tune out dynamic pieces so that everything plays within the same 1-2 dB range? Music is a lot different than running a tone generator through your system from 20-20KHZ at at constant decibel level and looking at the graph for peaks and valleys built into the crossover network and then trying to correct it. 
 

But yes! By all means, add 2 subs to your space. Everyone should, whether they know it or not. 

Maybe RELs really are good but from my own experience their customer service sucks. Phone calls never returned. Emails answered then told they'd get back to me but never do. Text messages back and forth promising me answers that I never get. A different mfg for me next time.

Looks like the website says frequency goes down to 20hz. Where did the 41hz number come from?

From my experience with all my systems over the years,

(answers to your two questions in the second paragraph)

1 Yes

2 Yes

Having read many comments on this discussion forum I can say that about the only thing that most people agree on is that REL subs are really good. I have yet to read a negative comment about an REL sub (let the negativity commence). I say go for it.

Yea, I don't think you can have the Sphere if you're married... 😅

Low B on a 5 string electric bass is 31hz (ref A440), Jaco on Cotton Ave tuned his e string way lower than low b on the intro. Synth produced bass ...well that's another story and some of it is really good like Bela Flek etc...

"I'm sorry but la Sphere looks too much like a next millennia Dalek."

asvjerry- yes, I'm afraid la Sphere is a little much for my tastes. Tough to get it to fit

with the decor, or get approval by the "boss."

They look like something from Hef's mansion in 1986.

@asvjerry, For a 21 inch woofer I'd have to give them a try!

20Hz?

Give me the titles of all 20Hz music you listen to and I will solve your issue, I am sure.

How much music content goes BELOW 20 Hz ?

I usually find if someone is asking if they need subs, they are not satisfied with their current bass...

Speaker manufacturers need to quote frequency range within decibel limits.

If Cabasse quote 41Hz at the bottom end it might be -3dB or -6dB, or worse.  Whatever, at the usual rate of roll-off there will be nothing at 20dB.  If OP is hearing a significant signal then it might be room effect but more likely check his Dirac.

For those interested bottom B on a Steinway Model 6 is 31Hz.  The bottom of a string or electric bass is 41Hz.

Those wishing significant musical output down to 20dB definitely require sub-woofers with these Cabasses.  I wonder what instrument they are listening to.

To get a better picture of what's going on use REW and do a measurement with Dirac on and off.

Hi @dmilev73, to echo 1 or 2 posters above,

• No, you definitely do not need subwoofers in your room
• I would lift the 20-30Hz by a few dB and lose 6dB 90-60kHz, more or less as per @erik_squires wisely suggests above
• Bass absorption looks like a plan: you have serious modes in the early 30 Hz & a suck-out a little over 100...

I like those speakers!

@tablejockey I have heard the smaller Pearl speakers that look the same. A few thousand watts of class-d amps makes sure they are VERY dynamic!

I am not sure they went down to 20 Hz in that room but the bass that I heard was Impressive. Drums were really good. Of course they managed voices and other things well also. Just $30k.

I've found the optimal room location for the main Speakers ability present a sound stage is usually not one of the rooms  optimal bass modes.There are simply too many room and system variables as well as your personal taste. 

Map your rooms bass modes using the crawl test standing up. Then order some long XLR or RCA interconnect form Blue Jeans or Mono Price.

If your in the U.S. SVS Subwoofers offer what seems to be a simply painless trial period.

I believe their products provide a functional amount of remote equalization, optimization, and gain along with three customizable memory presets that might better match your main speakers low frequency presentation.

Subwoofer single processing is vastly different and typically limiting. Best of luck with it.  

All a sub would do is take a load of the mains and introduce complexity into the space.  Quick trick to try is Eriks' eq suggestion. *S*

I could easily live with that curve as is, personally.

Lucky you. ;)

@tablejockey , I'm sorry but la Sphere looks too much like a next millennia Dalek.
I don't like anything that looks like an eye that never blinks trying to hypnotize me with music...and a ball on a spring is....

Hard to take seriously....Seriously. *L*

Thanks, anyway...J

there's no way speakers that are rated at 41 HZ are going to go down to 20 HZ in your room what kind of measurements are you using?

The words of those who don't have a lot of practical😀 experience. 

there's no way speakers that are rated at 41 HZ are going to go down to 20 HZ in your room what kind of measurements are you using?

Yes you need subwoofer without doubt there be shadow.

A good Subwoofer will be far more articulate and controlled and far better punch such as Svs 4000SB  no contest for just over $3 k a pair if you get them on sale from the outlet. The Cabase no way it get 20 HZ with impact reaching 20 hz for a millisecond won’t cut it ,my brother has bigger Wilsons and still has these same 

Svs subs  tuned with their excellent App,Free  REW bass program ,and you buy a DSP Mike ,after learning and taking a few readings you sent to SVS  and they tell you exactly where to set the parametric eq on the app to truly flatten room bass nulls and tune the Bass to your room , night and day better Bass, Svs pays shipping ,a 45 day trial 

and even return shipping $100% refund if not happy and 5 year transferrable warranty ,a great company to do business with.

Assuming 18ft between front and back wall your room will amplify 1125/36=31.25Hz and multiples (62.5Hz, 93.75, 125Hz etc.).  31.25Hz is alway welcome, but multiples require room treatments.

Well that's not bad.  I think you left the bass a little lean. 

Between 20 Hz and 100 Hz add a low shelf of about 4 dB.

from 100 Hz to 16 kHz go for a steeper slope, so 16 Khz is about -5 dB relative to 500 Hz.

Yes, subwoofers can be glorious but your problem right now is room balance.

Also, if you are doing this all without any room treatments it's not going to sound as good as if you worked together with them, especially in the bass.

The short answer, is definitely "yes", add a subwoofer.  Don't over analyze it.

 

Thank you for this Erik. I have never used this, so I will spend some time going over it. Here is what came up based on my room size of 16X18X8 feet. https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=487&w=549&h=244&r60=0.6

Here is a photo of my measurements...

Well to answer your question. Yes you could live without a sub on that system. You have most everything covered. That is not to say there is not more to get but you would not be missing much. 

Here is a photo of my measurements (took me forever to figure out how). 😁

They are taken from the listening position. As you can see, I had to even reduce the low frequencies by quite a bit. 

 

 

 

"The speaker's published frequency response is 41-20,000Hz. I presume this is achieved in an anechoic chamber. In my room however, it goes down to 20Hz, at least according to the Dirac measurements. In fact, I needed to flatten the curve and  reduce by 5-20 DBs between 20-100Hz due to the room effect."

Nice looking speaker. 

You have a magic room. The speaker defies manufacturers reasonable/real world  low frequency claim? Hmm...

I took a look at the website. This one is over the top:

 

20Hz @ 0 db loss?

I just re-read that you have measurements and use miniDSP.

Generally speaking to my mind, room correction systems tend to be too bright.  If you have the ability to control the tilt downwards try that.

After you get there, a boost in the bass (below 100 Hz) of around 4 dB is a good thing. The problem is if you aren't flat to begin with. 

Of course, all room correction works best with room treatment.  Take a look at the room simulator, below and see if your measurements are coinciding, and then we can talk about potential fixes.

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc

Look up "swarm subs"

We might be able to help you but first you have to tell us what problem you are trying to fix. What are you missing?  What’s bordering you?  Do you have enough bass?  Help us help you. I hope I don’t come out as being brash. The subject is very deep and it would help telling us what your concerns are. Thanks. 

Hey, I wrote a blog about how I made my decisions.

The main lesson I want readers to get from this is that speaker or subwoofer specifications don't mean anything when you get them into a room. 

 

 

there was a great thread a few years ago about using 2 subs with tower speakers...part of the question is do your main speakers actually deliver 20hz at the listening position at full listening volume - that is very rare - most measurements are at low volume, very close to the speaker...