Will China become the poor man’s dealer for high end audio?

I forgot to say that i apologize for my  reaction to your first post...

I welcome you...

And i hope you will give us arguments about your opinions in audio or about what you thought about...

Even if we see things in different perspective we can learn from others ...

I sincerely welcome you and i apologize giving my opinion too...

I am perhaps funny...

But being offended manifest itself by a REACTION and and APPEAL  against someone post or argument or person...

Instead of being offended give argument as i did when i am not ok with a post...As i did in this thread where some spoke their prejudices ...

I dislike censorship so much, i dont think that giving an opinion about anything in an audio thread can be BANNED...

i like friendship... This means discussion even with people with we are in complete opposition... Discussion with  RATIONAL arguments  are interesting... Offended people are not helpful nor interesting... Be offended but give a counter argument and dont ask for censorship of any kind... I dont want to live in China CCP at all...

 

You are funny.......I was not offended at all.  As to avoiding arguments or thinking, my "opinion" is that this is not a forum to argue about Fauci, Democrats, Republicans, etc.  Maybe as only a "one time poster" I incorrectly assumed this was a forum regarding audio and that which is related to same.   Who knows, maybe "Fauci" is a band new tube amp I am not yet familiar with.....if so, my bad....

@johnnotkathi 

Welcome.. Look forward to your contributions.

Easy to ignore posts.  I recently had a post pulled referencing Dr F.  My point was that cloaking an argument under the umbrella of “science” doesn’t necessarily make the assertion true, nor end discussion.   In this thread, by necessity the discussion involves projecting the future by looking at where we are now.  What should never happen is personal attacks.  Attack my position, but not me.  Everyone new from the first post that this would be a bit of a controversial thread.  Ok, see you elsewhere.

Nowadays instead of arguments and thinking , people get offended...They ask for censorship...

Someone go in and his first post is to accuse someone of offensing him..

The last three years demonstrated a complete negation of democracy and medecine freedom with a scandal which manifest now slowly worldwide... In spite of a total banishment of information and discussion in all official medias...

And some are offended WITHOUT giving any argument as if their opinion was absolute truth, as if in others opinion there can be not even an ounce of truth...

 

For about a year now, I have hung back and just read the various threads, etc.  There is a ton of really impressive "on topic" knowledge here.  I have learned a lot.  Seriously.  Then today I get to read this drivel:

"Democrats and people from Detroit and Fauci create much more damage for the US than any Chinese or Russian."

The post containing this should have been deleted, not because it is pathetically ignorant (which it is) or to deny anyone's first amendment rights, but because it simply does not belong here, IMHO.  It really demeans the forum. No, I am not "triggered" or "offended" but simply calling out the crap. 

OK, back to your regularly scheduled programming....thanks for listening...

John     

test

It is refreshing to read a post not born from a prejudice...

Why poor man's. Why not everyman's. They've done so with much else.

Japan come from rubble to superpower by a combination of copying and innovation. Same with South Korea. Now China is doing it. While we sit on our laurels.

Exactly what i think... 😊

Why poor man's. Why not everyman's. They've done so with much else.

Japan come from rubble to superpower by a combination of copying and innovation. Same with South Korea. Now China is doing it. While we sit on our laurels.

Almost comical ...

You judged more than one billion people by anecdotes and ridiculous affirmation..

I posted a serious AUSTRALIAN  studies demonstrating innovation..

I dont post propaganda or prejudices...

 

 Incredible... 😊

Applying book learning to practical situations was a weakness.  In laboratory work, most Chinese students fell to just average.  Some did not have the common sense to keep their fingers out of live electrical circuits.

Can Chinese companies compete in high end HiFi gear.  Yes, but not with innovation.

 

The original question is about now and the future.  History from hundreds of years ago is a broader topic involving context to understand how and why.  I put more value in first hand experience of the last 20 years. There is a common theme related by people that have spent time in China doing business.  The average person is hard working and willing to learn a skill in order to build a better life.  A better life means elevating themselves to achieve a higher goal of elevating the country of China.  Higher education is reserved for those showing potential as defined by the government.

Also, directly from people doing business is that China is very good at copying, including mistakes.  In Engineering classes Chinese students frequently held the highest GPAs, knowing that number would determine job assignment when returning home.  They were very good at memorizing and taking tests.  Applying book learning to practical situations was a weakness.  In laboratory work, most Chinese students fell to just average.  Some did not have the common sense to keep their fingers out of live electrical circuits.

Can Chinese companies compete in high end HiFi gear.  Yes, but not with innovation.

The existence and success of Schiit Audio tosses these arguments aside. Also Apple, the most successful company in the world, could easily make everything in the USA without slave labor and still make a huge profit. 

this thread was destined to be a dumpster fire from the get go

let's just enjoy the music and be thankful for lots of choices for excellent gear from all over the world, ok?

+1

Witnessing all this yelling and screaming back and forth gives me a headache.

Perhaps the moderators should consider creating a dedicated "combat zone". 

WOW! Just check this thread and the responses are a mixture of ones relating to the original question and political statements. There’s no denying what China is and their atrocities towards their own people but putting aside all that they still are part of the global economy and their role in High End audio is slowly getting bigger. 

 

I agree with this...

Chinese history aside, I think that we can agree that most manufacturers will purchase parts and assemble components based upon price. The better companies will carefully verify that all is per spec and that the end product is of high quality. Audio equipment is not the tip of the technological spear. As long as consumers have money to spend, someone, somewhere will figure out how to relieve you of your money. There will always be a value segment of consumer electronics. Currently, the manufacturing base for such products is diversifying and in the future countries like Vietnam, India and others will assemble these value component. China, with increasing labor costs and intrusive government control, is no longer the up and coming manufacturing hub of the world. Times are changing.

Serjio post is right...

"I was bitten by Mahgister" - now I want to tell the truths

Soix advice is right too... Better to keep this in the audio field... History is not taught and ignorance is appauling...

Let’s just stick to audio and do that. To me, chapai22 crossed the line, which is why I responded. I have absolutely no idea what you’re saying or what you mean and honestly I don’t care. I’d just like this to get back to audio pure and simple, which is what this site is all about.

But i SPOKE CLEARLY about audio simple thing against the expressed prejudices from some people expressing wrong and false statements by ignorance... No need to understand Shakespeare to be able to read about Needham 7 volumes and an austrailian study demonstrating chinese engineering creative and abilities which anyway existed in the past , save for those ignorant of history...

My Hidizs Ap 80 pro, is not high end, but a piece of very good design which punch high for his price...It is chineese... It is not less bad than american products in the same window of price at all... Any children able to read english can understand my point..

 

One thing to remember, made in China but designed by companies with solid histories and engineering capital is far different than turn-key China made products.

And as i also said, my German 1978 AKG K340 headphone is a top product even today and no pricier Hifiman chinese headphone beat it save perhaps the two more costlier models and even this i dont believe it...

Is it hard to understand ?

But saying that chinese with 40 million pianists will stay unable to be creative as they were for 2 millenias is only an ignorant prejudice..

It already has, with mixed results. Chinese online dealers offer McIntosh MC275 clones for less than a third of the cost of the original. Many people love the sound and at a price much easier to afford. Then there are the number of $1k tube integrated amps built in the Line Magnetic facility. These have been met with mixed results with lots of people moving on from them. Same with the myriad of other amplifier clones.

Ali Express sells pretty much any type of speaker clone along with rack, stands and cable clones at fractional pricing.

And of course the DACs being built are extremely popular.

Like it or not it is here to stay and growing.

One thing to remember, made in China but designed by companies with solid histories and engineering capital is far different than turn-key China made products.

I think many people should be forced to show the film The Matrix! ... maybe then they will understand what TV has done to them ... Cunning guys with big money have painted a picture of the world for ordinary people (of course, in their own interests).

... "I was bitten by Mahgister" - now I want to tell the truth ... whether you like it or not - You can trust me!

Never in the entire foreseeable history (any sources except since 1993) has no "independent and sovereign country" existed de facto and de jure.
Even the name is translated as: near the edge ... (border area) of a large country.
I will say more - the capital of this "independent and sovereign country" - for many years (almost 400) was the capital of a country that invaded itself))).

Indeed, in 1917-1920, a group of businessmen wanted to create a separate country from this territory and appoint themselves as its owners ... they did not succeed and it all became the Soviet Union.
Until 1917 - there were numerous attempts to seize this territory by all the countries around (Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany) - Russia defended itself and helped the border region protect itself from "good Europe" and only thanks to this did these people survive at all.
World War II - as part of the Soviet Union from this territory, 7 million people fought against Hitler (in his hands were all the resources of Europe that did not resist him).
1993 - violating all conceivable legal and moral laws - a group of swindlers in power dissolved the Soviet Union (it was a financial collusion with Western corporations trading in natural resources - TREASURE ... these people appropriated the people's property personally) ... Since that time, the country has de facto the status of a semi-colony ... A narrow stratum of people is immersed in luxury - the main population of the richest country lives in poverty.
Who watched the film "Django Unchained" - there was a black slave who was the manager of DiCaprio's house - but he hated other black slaves with a lower status ... Approximately the situation in the country that attacked the "sovereign" ... the elite treats its people in the same way as that manager - robs him ... this country decides little in this world (despite the fact that the country is nuclear) ...
Attacked? - yes and no ... since 2014, a "sovereign country" has been waging an open genocide on a national basis ... destroying everything from a common past ... massive crimes of extreme cruelty.
Who ordered this to be done? - for reference - almost all the teams of politicians who were at the helm of the "sovereign" - came to power through coups ... they are criminals and manipulators of public opinion.
The regime of a large country for 8 years pretended that nothing was happening and itself pushed the "independent" into Europe ... the interests of ordinary people were ignored. There was a massive brainwashing through the TV - deception.
The people could not stand it and a conflict began - many territories decided to officially return to a large country ... but the "sovereign" authorities declared them separatists and began to destroy ... As a result, a large country intervened - an invasion ...
But not everything is so simple - do you remember Django? - so the "manager" serves the master and hates people like him (the people) ... that's why everything that happens sometimes looks strange, not logical. Apparently there is a bargain (they are balancing - the pressure of the population and the order of the master) ...

How is it even possible that a small territory is in such conflict with the second army of the world ??? - very simple - WE provide it - OUR TAXES OFFICIALS SPEND ON THIS CONFLICT ... by order of the United States, 40 countries are pumping "independent" weapons with money and mercenaries ... And before that, for 30 years they spent money on the psychological treatment of the population of the "sovereign" - they grew a mutant.

If you think that this is in the interests of the ordinary population of the States - you are a naive person - all for the personal gain of bankers and corporate owners. But they lie to you - in order to conduct this adventure for your money.
They created an image of an enemy for you - supposedly Russia is a bad country and dangerous ... FALSE - I lived there (I lived in many places or was a tourist) - these are the kindest people on the planet with an amazing culture ... I can compare!

Someone will say their regime is dangerous... HOW? - a semi-colony country ... WHY? - they are the richest - they do not need extra territory and resources, they have people with a good education ...

But the aggressive forces in the West by all means prevent them from developing - in order to sell their goods to them.

MATRIX MATRIX MATRIX ....

Someone thinks that the grandfather, who every day falls on the stairs, hits the toilet and cannot find the door, really rules the country? his vice - laughs like a ship's horn ... This is some kind of comedy!

SIMPLE PEOPLE HAVE NO WHERE TO LEARN THE TRUTH - THEY ARE VICTIMS OF MANIPULATION ...

China? - it's just an economic competitor ... America is trying to interfere with them ... But audio - in my opinion it's better to buy here))).

Democrats and people from Detroit and Fauci create much more damage for the US than any Chinese or Russian. Do the math really.

Didn't take long for the mental midgets to come out of the woodwork.

All the best,
Nonoise

@mahgister I’m sorry, I can’t follow your English nor your reasoning that seems all over the place to the point that I can’t even understand what you’re saying.  I’d suggest we just keep politics out of this forum because it’s just not the place.  Let’s just stick to audio and do that.  To me, chapai22 crossed the line, which is why I responded.  I have absolutely no idea what you’re saying or what you mean and honestly I don’t care.  I’d just like this to get back to audio pure and simple, which is what this site is all about. 

First;

I never asked moderators to erase someone post...

Even the post of someone three years ago who accused me in front of all people of killing people by my opinions ...

 

Second :

I like TRUTH... I answered  WITH arguments to those who love their common place stupid prejudices saying non sense... China is not the same as the CCP no more than Russia is the soviet, and US is not Biden puppet regime nor the Trump puppet one with the oligarchs behind the two of  them ...

People and their culture is one thing , politic is another...I respect and admire ALL cultures.. Like i respect and admire all animals... i despise actual politic schemes in the world...

Few  said erroneously here that China never created engineering of high level but STOLE everything... it is false...China did great innovations in the past and even now... I cited an AUSTRALIAN STUDIES about that and give a search engine dedicated to this matter... You know HOW TO READ ?

I answered with history facts BECAUSE THIS IS false... In any country there exist commercial spying and this is a problem with the CCP for sure and everybody know that ... But we were talking about china creativity in the past and now in audio and in others matter here not about the CCP...

Only propagandists or ignorants can call these historical facts which are in every books propaganda...

I am fed up with the censorship which you seems to think is a great thing...Buy a mirror and look at you...

third:

I am not a sheep in any country political boat in my country or in yours ... If you are one sheep speaking to all others sheeps , let us who are able to think by themselves BE...

Four:

the only propagandist here is YOU... The first sign identifying a propagandist is his unability to discuss FACTS and his appeal to censorship of FACTS ...

Five:

Educate yourself in geopolitic...

Six:

Patriotism is not ideological fanatism and chauvinism...

Seven :

Point me wrong about china historical facts or go in your hole, it seems you like to be offended, and let the moderators think by themselves they are adults, nor children nor fanatics...

Eight :

Saying that chinese were creative in their history , and are perhaps NOW able to create decent audio system is not "deep-state China propaganda" it is elementary verifiable simple facts ...

Nine:

I dont like to be bullied...I respect everyone who respect everyone else here...

ten :

I am an adult and i dont need to adress the moderator .... SPEAK TO ME DIRECTLY...

 

 

this is absolutely absurd and I’d ask the moderators to remove this utter BS deep-state China propaganda that has absolutely no place here.

thanks i like this sentence...

It is a better one than my dog  sentence.. 😊

 

We summarize: If the patient really wants to live, doctors are powerless!

People should learn how to avoid destroying other countries. On one side, Russia and China are not enemies, if they are not put in those situations. On another side, Democrats and people from Detroit and Fauci create much more damage for the US than any Chinese or Russian. Do the math really.

@chapai22 This might qualify as the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read here and even eclipses the flat earthers, and that’s saying something. Russia is not an enemy if THEY are not put in those situations? Are you outta your right mind??? Russia invaded an independent and sovereign country and you think WE (meaning the US and the other developed western countries) put THEM in that situation? What is wrong with you???  I don’t get involved in political discussions here because they’re off point, but this is absolutely absurd and I’d ask the moderators to remove this utter BS deep-state China propaganda that has absolutely no place here. This guy is truly off his rocker and he and his 2 posts should just go away. Just my opinion.

@mahgister 

Needham's authority to hit Sergio? - what a cruel reception)))) ...
We can vote - whose approach to this particular issue is more effective and practical for an audiophile (most likely a beginner - since the veterans themselves know everything) ... my modest 35 years of trial-and-error experience of findings of observations in audio and momentary prejudices regarding Chinese products (including by indirect signs not related to electronics ... well, I don’t like these pagan guys as High-end sculptors) ... Or your approach (but for the sake of purity of experiment, voters MUST read all 7 volumes of Needham's works and extrapolate the knowledge gained to the situation).

I broke my head trying on a story about dogs - where am I and where are you in it? ... - all options are terrifying))))

We summarize: If the patient really wants to live, doctors are powerless!

I will go with your advice...😊

 

 

 

hey isn't the new brad mehldau release (solo playing the beatles' favorites) just wonderful? 

queue it up, close eyes (that means no typing, no reading), enjoy!!! 

 

hey isn't the new brad mehldau release (solo playing the beatles' favorites) just wonderful? 

queue it up, close eyes (that means no typing, no reading), enjoy!!! 

first i am perhaps a dreamer but at least i dont use generalities who are going nowhere

I didn’t say the Chinese weren’t capable - I said it probably wouldn’t happen anytime soon... And it’s better for the music lover to ignore their products...

My low cost Hidizs dac is for the ratio price/S.Q. and functionalities very good... Not junk...

2000 years ago engineering? - yes, but then it consisted in the production of paper and gunpowder (the wheel was most likely stolen somewhere) ...))) - this has little to do with audio in the 21st century.

And here you only demonstrated ignorance of history..

Do you think the 7 volumes of Needham works are about the paper, powder and the "wheel an idea stolen somewhere " as you claim to disparage Chinese history with a common place prejudice .. ?

Your bad faith about China is so dense... I will not go on with discussing more...

The prose of life is that very often sources and teachers were erroneous, and sometimes even evil manipulators ... (a vivid example of such a discipline as historical science ...

And now to gain a point in a discussion all Needham works and others historians after him are  mere falsifications  and ideology ?

And i must take your "knowledge" for gold... 😊

Ok enjoy your "lucidity" alone ...

I will stay a dreamer reading books...

 

«Unlike dog man piss on the spot where they plan to never going back, after all we must piss somewhere » -- Groucho Marx 🤓

 

@mahgister 

no no - I understood you well (and for a long time) ... you are a creative person, a dreamer, there are elements of idealism and eclecticism at the same time ... (in general, a real vinaigrette) ...

I didn't say the Chinese weren't capable - I said it probably wouldn't happen anytime soon... And it's better for the music lover to ignore their products... it will save a lot of time and money in the long run... life is too short to waste it on fast food.
If the situation changes, everyone will notice it ... but not yet.

Delete Germany from the list - there is high quality, but it will be very expensive.

2000 years ago engineering? - yes, but then it consisted in the production of paper and gunpowder (the wheel was most likely stolen somewhere) ...))) - this has little to do with audio in the 21st century.

P / S Many people try very hard ... pay for education, read books - this gives them the illusion of good knowledge of the subject - they believe in what they were taught (they paid money - this enhances the effect) ... The prose of life is that very often sources and teachers were erroneous, and sometimes even evil manipulators ... (a vivid example of such a discipline as historical science ... I assure you - very few people really know it, since every political force after the advent and to power - he tries to destroy books about the past and writes his own version in order to legitimize his crimes ... Remember how Hitler burned books and brainwashed his people ... By the way, the most difficult thing is to deceive large masses of eyewitnesses + the regime itself should serve the interests of the population, and not its own pocket ... this situation was in Soviet Russia ... now capitalism is there again - the world has lost the country an example, a bright landmark of the future) ...

Sorry if you misunderstood me...

I am not a LAWYER for china nor a spy... China dont need me.. I have read Joseph Needham when i was young... Then i know that for more than 2 millenias the apex of engineering was in China...

I ONLY tried counterbalance those who suggest that chinese are unable to create engineering and are only able to steal others designs by historical FACTS...

Now with 40 million pianists i doubt that there is no craftmanship at all at the audiophile level because some here decided so and ignored these small audiophile craftmanship ... There is a ton of garbage from China because it was the manufacturing dump of the world... But i dont like IDEOLOGIC CHAUVINISM ... I used history...

I can understand and even approve many or most of your points in your last posts... Try to understand mine...I dont like bashing cultures, being it american, canadian , chinese, russian or muslim one...

Baghad was once the most advanced civilization in the world by far... We must respect that... Thats my point...

 

Three of the greatest admirals who ever lived for example , one was chinese and toured the world with a fleet so big and so big boat it was never seen like that before and long after but china was not interested to invade the world; the other admiral was Korean and he never loose combat against Japan in thirty years in all cases with inferiority in numbers ...During the second world war, some officers proposed a toast to Togo as the greatest admiral who ever lived after the victory of Pearl Harbour , Togo  stop them right at the proposal because he must have love truth more than nationalism in a way , and said to them that the greatest admiral who ever lived was the korean Yi Sun Sin the mortal foe of Japan ... What a testimony from a Japan warrior to a vouched enemy ... Yi Sun Sin life story is incredible...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Sun-sin

There is an incredible movie you must see :

"The Admiral: Roaring Currents" a fantastic movie based on true events... Incredible events...

The third admiral Themistocles was greek and crush the Persian bigger fleet and changed history at the same time 300 super warrior Spartans stalled 100,000 persians ... We were europeans because of these spartans in a way, if not for them , Greece would have been crush in his course... Nelson was a great admiral or Cook too, but chauvinism and ignorance only make us forgetting about the past and the way civilizations all contributed to mankind ... Thats my point...

I am pretty sure that some great audio product with great engineering exist in china as in Holland or as in Germany and Japan...

 

@mahgister

You have decided to become a lawyer for the Chinese ... (illusion of rightness based on book facts - the reality is somewhat different).
Have you been to China? I have been several times...
My post was exclusively applied in nature (was the answer to the question of the author of the branch).
I’m not a chauvinist ... by the way, do you know what the Chinese call tourists? - white monkeys ... (at the same time, many of them themselves were illiterate, they were dirty and a few years ago they wiped their asses with their fingers ... but they were very proud))) ...)
Of course, you can physically make audio in any country - even at the north pole; but this does not happen ... Apparently there is some inertia-tradition ...
For example, the best cars are made in Germany, the best furniture in Italy and Romania...
Asians - their culture is different from another world and has its own specifics (they even hear differently ... they love high frequencies very much ... there is even a term - "Japanese sound") ... this is not an axiom, but a pronounced trend.
Do you know what Peter Qvortrup thinks about Americans? (audio) - this is a country of a child ... people in the mass do not have taste and internal culture (we are talking about both the content of music and the quality of its reproduction ... mainly talking about classical apparently) ... And I’ll tell you - yes, this is largely true ... BUT, if you need a good audio system - look for it in America))) .... (you will need to try many combinations of equipment).
Being skilled in this hobby means getting the best possible sound for the least amount of bucks.
1 . China is more of an assembly shop ... but not art level engineering ...
2. Cheap electronics (and the topic of the thread is about this) - a priori, these are bad components, saving literally on everything.

Where to buy cheaper serious high end?? ... it is important not only to buy, but also to hear in advance - that’s America ...
at the same time, individual devices can be bought in other countries (but these are big difficulties - travel, customs, delivery - this is the lot of real hobby fans).
In what countries ? - England, Russia, Italy, Japan (artisans), the Netherlands.

@mahgister 

You have decided to become a lawyer for the Chinese ... (illusion of rightness based on book facts - the reality is somewhat different).
Have you been to China? I have been several times...
My post was exclusively applied in nature (was the answer to the question of the author of the branch).
I'm not a chauvinist ... by the way, do you know what the Chinese call tourists? - white monkeys ... (at the same time, many of them themselves were illiterate, they were dirty and a few years ago they wiped their asses with their fingers ... but they were very proud))) ...)
Of course, you can physically make audio in any country - even at the north pole; but this does not happen ... Apparently there is some inertia-tradition ...
For example, the best cars are made in Germany, the best furniture in Italy and Romania...
Asians - their culture is different from another world and has its own specifics (they even hear differently ... they love high frequencies very much ... there is even a term - "Japanese sound") ... this is not an axiom, but a pronounced trend.
Do you know what Peter Qvortrup thinks about Americans? (audio) - this is a country of a child ... people in the mass do not have taste and internal culture (we are talking about both the content of music and the quality of its reproduction ... mainly talking about classical apparently) ... And I'll tell you - yes, this is largely true ... BUT, if you need a good audio system - look for it in America))) .... (you will need to try many combinations of equipment).
Being skilled in this hobby means getting the best possible sound for the least amount of bucks.
1 . China is more of an assembly shop ... but not art level engineering ...
2. Cheap electronics (and the topic of the thread is about this) - a priori, these are bad components, saving literally on everything.

Where to buy cheaper serious high end?? ... it is important not only to buy, but also to hear in advance - that's America ...
at the same time, individual devices can be bought in other countries (but these are big difficulties - travel, customs, delivery - this is the lot of real hobby fans).
In what countries ? - England, Russia, Italy, Japan (artisans), the Netherlands.

I believe you and this video without having any doubts about that...

My points were not about mass market products and actual difficulties of the chinese system...

I know that.. I think as you...

My point is about the genius behind chinese culture creativity which is not known here and then all that is good is bashed...

it is evident that a great % of mass market products are garbage from China..

my point is chinese engineers are not all garbage in history and even today... Look at Taiwan ...

This discussion began by saying that chinese audio is all bad and chinese only stole technology... It was not true in history... Today the coming back from British destruction of china for two centuries with drugs is remarkable... When i was young i gave money for the china millions of people dying with hunger... Now Shangai is a modern metropolis.. But the CCP so good it was for giving food on the table because everyone throw their manufacturing there without a back thought is a totalitarian regime and thats had an impact on economy FLUIDITY and freedom to improve too...

All that everyone knows...

But here few people knows that China was TOP of the world engineering for 2 millenias at least ... That was my point ... ad it is easy to prove it reading books...

 

@mahgister

Did you watch the video? It simply demonstrates how quality control is a distant second to appearing modern and progressive.

China is a total mess. Their system is rotten top to bottom. I agree that the US has serious issues, but China is smoke and mirrors.

I own a Holo May DAC KTE and it is a very good DAC, but Hong Kong and the South of China have changed and it doesn’t bode well for the future.

@mahgister

Did you watch the video? It simply demonstrates how quality control is a distant second to appearing modern and progressive.

China is a total mess. Their system is rotten top to bottom. I agree that the US has serious issues, but China is smoke and mirrors.

I own a Holo May DAC KTE and it is a very good DAC, but Hong Kong and the South of China have changed and it doesn’t bode well for the future.

Add India now to China...

And the center of the world will shift soon.. How about a japanese amplifier ?

The greatest book i read about A. I. is written by an Indian scientist working in Japan...It makes chat-gpt as an already old technology... 😊

Japan engineering is always TOP in many fields..

 

 

 

I own a Sansui alpha amplifier... Then i declared officially  my conflict of interest here about Japan technology ,...

I was also a chinese emperor in one of my last life ...Then read me  with a grain of salt  as each one of my one hundred concubines will do... 😁

😊

I never said that the actual engineering QUALITIES of China was superior...I said it was not far behind..

The actual economical and political situation in China and america is not the focus of my rectifications points ..

My point is about the prejudices and ignorance about  chinese FIRST BASIC  innovations in history  and in all fields  compared to europeans before the 17 th century...

And it is not because Chinese engineer are able to make a TOP amplifier today  that there is no others problem in China now  about qualities of product and everyone know that...

Do you think there is no problem in actual America ?

My point is about history... Chinese are not only able to copy and stole, as some claims,  they created BEFORE europeans a list of basic innovative technology which is staggering..

This is my point to oppose chauvinism about audio or anything..

 

 

@mahgister

This video shows recent events in China and how they differ from how China represents itself. I’ve read news reports of studies showing how China leads the west in this or that. This video shows how the current Chinese culture trades quality with the appearance of quality. Until this changes, China will not follow Japan as a high quality provider of technological goods. Does this mean that China does not possess some cutting age technology, no. It does mean that there is some question as to if their PL-15 long range air to air missile works as claimed. In fact this is true of much of their claimed technological advances.

The two men presenting this video lived in China for decades. The video was recorded two days ago.

Chinese Build Quality.

 

Oh yeah, and some tubes from Russia.

You remember when it was bad to buy from Japan? Now we complement the Japanese on the quality of their products. Then it was Vietnam.  Today, it’s Russia and China.

BTW, Currently I have gear from USA, Japan, Israel, England and yes China and a few other countries.

It is not a question of quality. The Apple seems good enough. China just sent a rocket into space employing methane. This is a challenge NASA is still trying to master, as well as the Russians.

NASA is no longer in the space business.  They are in the business of issuing contracts to private firms.  One firm is Space X and it uses methane with their Raptor engines.  China is now struggling to develop reusable first stage rockets.

Many asian companies - and I really do think it important to apply said distinction as not to generalize or disassociate the individuality and innovation of many unique companies in the East- are already well beyond the “copy cat” market approach. Actually, all audio companies borrow from each other to an extent, some more overtly than others..yes. There will always be class leaders in certain respects when it comes to new concepts and approaches to equipment and offerings. But why would that still be relegated only to the uber-elite companies? Especially with such impressive burgeoning tech in constant discovery and refinement? Not to say that if I had the $$$$$ that I wouldn’t consider something like a DarTZeel pre or power amp 🙏🏼

 

@mahgister

This video shows recent events in China and how they differ from how China represents itself. I’ve read news reports of studies showing how China leads the west in this or that. This video shows how the current Chinese culture trades quality with the appearance of quality. Until this changes, China will not follow Japan as a high quality provider of technological goods. Does this mean that China does not possess some cutting age technology, no. It does mean that there is some question as to if their PL-15 long range air to air missile works as claimed. In fact this is true of much of their claimed technological advances.

The two men presenting this video lived in China for decades.  The video was recorded two days ago.

Chinese Build Quality.