But there is no good reason to put an output transformer on a "good" solid state amplifier, it can only make it’s performance worse.
If 'performance' means THD numbers then yeah I would agree. However if 'performance' means SQ then I can think of a good reason - you want to drive a lower impedance speaker than the amp is designed for. Another good reason is that you have a much higher power amp than you need - the trafo will improve the dynamics in such an instance. If you don't believe me George you could ask Nige at DIYA he's built a battery-fed LM3886 amp with multi-tapped transformers on the output - they are part of the volume control.
you want to drive a lower impedance speaker than the amp is designed for.
Not for me, sorry Abraxalito, you get the right amp, not put a band-aid on it
Another good reason is that you have a much higher power amp than you need -
Not into speakers EPDR low bass impedances, again, you get the right amp, not put a band-aid on it, it’s like bridging if you need more power, wrong. You get the right amp.
Greatfull dead/Jerry Garcia’s Favorite McIntosh 2300 Amplifiers weren’t owned by them, and were owned by nobody they’re worth around 3K. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363362695974
"
Greatfull dead/Jerry Garcia’s Favorite McIntosh 2300 Amplifiers weren’t owned by them, and were owned by nobody they’re worth around 3K. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363362695974"
That would be the "Grateful Dead" and the link you posted was an amp for sale, not one that has sold. All amps in the auction sold, I do think at silly prices, however just pointing out. The value to one may not be the value to others.
Since the output transformers allow for 2 4 or 8 ohm
why not a single/universal connect to speakers that can handle all 3?.?.?
Has to do with "output impedance" of said transformer tap. (damping factor) into the speakers impedance to control the speaker cone movement, and getting the "most wattage" without losing control for that speaker driver. The lower the transformer tap the lower the "output impedance" the higher the "damping factor", penalty is the lower the tap the lower the wattage also.
They demand an amp that can drive 4ohm or less un-phased, even 2ohm, as there is also a nasty EPDR of -64 degrees negative phase angle at 70hz, you could even try the 2ohm tap to get the ultimate bass control, but you won’t have much wattage to go loud with. Really I don't think these sort of speakers are suitable for a transformer coupled amps.
Ok look at the solid black line between 100 and 1k (bottom scale) markings, you can see that the black line is below 4ohms (left scale) with much of the bass, your sub won’t fix this heavy load on an amp.
so 4 ohms ok vs 8? Have a sub in mix fyi.
I’d try the 2ohm see if it’s loud enough, if not the 4ohm, the 8ohm will not give the best bass but it will be the loudest.
As for your sub, these B&W’s go down quite low, so the sub should be bought in at around 30hz, and the volume level reset for each transformer tap you use. https://www.stereophile.com/images/616BW802fig3.jpg
Awesome info. Mr george using 600 watt monos, so 4 ohms good to do. Interesting that using 8 ohms connection would raise decibel level
does increase in damping factor going from 8 to 4 ohms impact ‘open nature’ of sound? Ie. Need more watts to push thru and fully realize dynamic demands of frequencies
does increase in damping factor going from 8 to 4 ohms impact ‘open nature’ of sound? Ie. Need more watts to push thru and fully realize dynamic demands of frequencies
No, should tighten the bass going from 8 to 4ohm and give more transparency/openness, because it’ll remove some bloat.
Here you go again mozartfan. No one hates widebanders. No one is even thinking about widebanders, and as long as you like them, why would you care if they did hate widebanders?
Ever since owning a MC275, I have never listened to so much music. Thats what it's all about to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is exactly my same reaction when hearing a Full Range , duos W8+W4 (DIYer says use the term Full Range, not Wide Bander) So you have a magical amplifier now add a magical speaker. Double magic.
@emergingsoul does it really matter if folks hate McIntosh? The passion seems to get folks talking about a brand and that brand seems to be doing really well.
I've had a great experience with McIntosh and am upgrading some of my system and decided to replace my McIntosh preamp and amp with Moon by Simaudio. The irony of the upgrade is that I believe the time I spent with McIntosh rekindled my music appreciation and enjoyment.
And when it was time to upgrade, I specifically listened to some other brands including Audio Research, Moon and McIntosh. And when moving up in power I found the Audio Research superb but beyond my budget and Moon preferable to McIntosh as a better price.
My audio rack will be much more minimalist and subdued... But I sold my McIntosh gear for over 80% of the price I paid for it. And I am confident the gear will generate more smiles.
@emergingsoul I bought the legacy models - so I bought them new with a full warranty.
If your statement "Arc tube life horrifying" is an allusion to trick or treat. I don't see it. What specifically do you find horrifying about Audio Research? I am open to your opinion but your judgement without support is more of a 'trick' than a 'treat'.
I guess that he means that tubes don't last long in their gear, whether that's true or not. Hey mozartfan, I don't think that you're a teenager texting anymore, so are you in too much of a rush to type "you" instead of "U"?
Arc is in same camp as mac. Appealing optics trump merits of equip. Arc fails big time due to tube maintenance issues. It has a congested sound due to overpowered internals. Mac much better with longer tube life by far. Arc loved more than mac?
Right. This really vexes me. If only the silliness were literate. Or even less tendentious. Or just plain short. Brevity is the soul of wit. Like that.
Around the time the Revel Salon 2 speakers came out, (2009) I was looking for a speaker and auditioned them, and thought they sounded good. On the second Audition, the store had them playing on whatever was the current Macintosh tube amps at the time. It sounded nothing like the first audition and asked the salesman to try another amp as it didn’t sound very good. I don’t remember what amp he switched it to, but the speakers now sounded good, as it had previously. That was my first and only experience with Macintosh. Up to that point my completely uneducated opinion was that they were more of a lifestyle product than an audiophile one.
A friend recently told me he would be inheriting his late dad’s Macintosh amp, which I remembered seeing briefly years ago and loved the looks. Excited for him, I asked if it was tube or solid state. When he told me unfortunately it was solid state, the conversation deflated around us.
I think they had put money into fixing it a few years ago as well, so I imagine it could be 30 or 40 years old. Not sure it that makes it better than current. The friend has his original JBL 4311’s which I always wanted as kid but couldn’t afford. (Which he obviously could, hence the Dad owning Macintosh). I imagine when he has them paired it will make a great looking system.
There were several speakers I wanted as a teenager but could’t afford or convince my dad to buy, including a pair of infinity 2.5’s that tortured me every time I walked into the mall and passed them in the store window, as if they were mocking me. I also wanted Bose 901’s at the time, which were out of my reach as well.
Shortly after hearing those Salon 2’s close to a dozen years ago, I extracted my revenge as an adult, thanks to Andrew Jones, a vapor deposition chamber and the element that occupies number 4 on the periodic table.
I never gave McIntosh a chance, hearing for years they sounded poor for doctors and lawyers, etc. Well, I heard a system in a store one day and I said this sounds great, live almost, he said it is our McIntosh system. My jaw dropped, long story short I have McIntosh longer than Levinson, Rowland, ARC, Luxman, and to this day my system just makes music so enjoyable. Seems you always kick the big dog, on top of sonics they are soooo reliable and hold their value.
I’ve enjoyed my system. Purchased a McIntosh Mac6700 and paired it with B&W 805 D3’s about 5 years ago, added a Rel S/5 SHO sub and never looked back. As a bonus, my Wife thinks the equipment is more attractive then my previous stuff.
I have the same B & W 805 D3 speakers powered by a Bryston amp/preamp setup. My Bryston gear would be in the same price range as your McIntosh components. I’m just curious if you feel the the subwoofer was necessary? I auditioned two subwoofers and felt they made the B & W 805s too bass heavy. I was finding myself turning off the sub for most music I listen too. In the end, I didn’t purchase a subwoofer. Do you find you have your subwoofer turned on for most of the music you listen to? I’m not saying you made a mistake buying the subwoofer. I’m just curious.
The question is not the amount of bass it's the quality and timing of the bass. A lot of folks are finding out the difference. A sub on either side of the seated position and mains set in a good triangle about 1/3 further away than the subs, might change your mind. I use a setup that the front of the sub is an 15" passive and both sides are 12" HE actives. 6CF boxes.
The 2 passives are the first sub driver to hit my position. Some recordings are NOT phase correct, I just flip the 180 switch on one sometimes both. It's still 6 drivers in 6 different directions into the room. Its a DBA in two boxes. Best idea I had in a while to tell the truth.. I tried it over the last week or so... A second 12" passive facing the wall? It would act like 8 drivers because it would be 8 drivers.. No need for 8 boxes though.. Just Distributed BASS, no array. Maybe radial bass array. or ARC BASS
I also use GRs servo subs turned sideways on either side of the seated position 4-6 12" OB HE drivers... (they are setting right now.)
It's how the room pressures and the timing. If you decouple your mains and subs. AND add as much room treatment as you can stand.. That is 50% of the sound anyway.
I like a ported room to. Some people like a sealed or semi sealed room, that makes a ton of difference in EAR pressure. The heavier the bass the more I port the room... IF I want to listen for a while..
12-24 Helmholtz tuning tubes should smooth out the rest. Where is Master M? Room first, tubes last... :-)
I'm going to buy one more Mac. Tube C1100 all tricked out. My ears are going to need that tone control soon enough..
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
