more people love music than the configuration of stereo systems to attain quality of sound. its obvious why.
the natural inclination of human beings is laziness. quality is sacrificed for convenience.
moreover, sound quality , for many does not enhance the enjoyment of listening to music.
the message of the music and the emotional content can be communicated using any medium.
the reason is intrinsic to the psychology governing human behavior. |
I played an old analogue recording of Joan Baez on vinyl to my wife and she said it was "good but there's too much detail"...
Then I played the DDD CD she recorded (she is a wonderful mezzo-saprano). It was fairly flat. Then I played her a 60s record of Julie Andrews. The difference was amazing. She could "see" Julie in the room, hear her lips smack, the wetness in the mouth... and was pretty impressed. Later, I overheard her on the phone telling a friend that records were much better than CDs! |
Oddiofyl, very good point & you are right, I enjoyed reading your post. Case in point, my daughter thought my system sounded good but she said I don't know what to listen for. She loves music but she was content going back to her room and listen to her boombox. I think it just comes down to pleasing ourselves. |
you can thank iPods and Sonos..... Personally I would rather drive a crappy car and have a killer 2 ch system. In fact I drove many crappy cars for the past 30 years..... my current preamp actually cost more than several cars I have owned.
Today's generation wants quantity and convenience over sound quality... for example, I recently bought new speakers. I asked my 15 year old if he wanted my old speakers and an amp that I wasn't using, a pair of PSB M2 Platinums which are a great speaker and an audio design associates 200w stereo amp. He declined, holding his phone up and saying "i'm all set". I would have killed for gear of that caliber when I was 15......... |
If its not in your blood, it's not in your home. Audiophiles represent a small segment of society and we enjoy the fact that we can, and do distinguish ourselves from the mainstream. This in turn makes us very unique in good way. |
Yes, as has been said several times, there are many more distractions now. |
Probably more people than ever love audio these days.
Most of them are loving it using portable devices and earphones and ear buds that already sound far better than most similar fairly inexpensive audio devices of years past.
After that there are those enjoying it on their home A/V systems, not to mention in their cars
Then there is everyone else. |
Raytheprinter, was he serious? Even when I first got into audio in the late '50s $300 would not have bought a system or even kits to make one. |
A guy at work that Makes very decent money,was saying how he could not wait until he got his tax refund . He was going to buy a killer HT system,,,,,,,So I start talking to him .I got around to asking how much he planned on spending,,,the answer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,300.00 or so !!! |
Well, audio is too often a lonely and solitary hobby.This goes against human nature as man is a social animal. This is the reason why audio clubs/societies exist. To get together with like minded people and socialize. As the founder of an audio club here in Las Vegas, every meeting has been a blast. I understand some audiophiles are socially awkward, but that shouldn't stop them from interacting with fellow audiophiles either in person or here on the internet. Anyway, if you're in the Vegas area and would like to join the club, go to our blog and check it out. Our contact info is on there. It's free to join and there's no rankings at the moment. We're gonna have a guest speaker in December, so you don't really wanna miss it.
http://lasvegasaudioclub.blogspot.com/ |
Tbg,
A very succinct observation. I agree. |
"I know
You never thought about it but
Ask yourself later
When you turn on your stereo
Does it return the favor?"
Van Halen - The Trouble With Never |
"I know you never thought about it but ask yourself later. When you turn on your stereo, does it return the favor?"
..........Van Halen "A Different Kind of Truth" |
Years ago when I first went high end. I had three ARC pieces (SP-3, Dual 51, and Dual 75A, a Linn LP12, and a Charlie the Tuner. The sat on their own feet on wooden cabinet shelves and were plugged into a power strip and into the wall. Ics were cheap and the speaker wire was heavy gauge lighting wire. There were perhaps six other guys in town with pretty comparable systems in a town of about 50k and three dealers. Many people had speakers and a receiver and the local dealers sold them. I see many of these systems still in use by friends of my age. Most of these friends don't have home theater systems or even big HD tvs. They are the old amusement style families. I still maintain that in part it is other amusements, but also is the expense of vibration isolation, electrical power, and high quality wires. This is not to say that our sound today isn't far better than long ago, but all that stuff has to be bought and is hard to hide and has low WAF.
If you took away HD large screens, BlueRay, Iphones, Ipads, MP3 noise, etc., you would end up with bored people not more receptive to quality audio. |
perhaps people love music and the reproduction of recordings in the home, but don't want to be called an "audiophile"--a term which has negative connotations.
i'm sure that when exposed to quality sound, even a tyro would appreciate the sound of instruments. it's just the notion of being considered an audiophile which may not be attractive to most people. i think the term "audiophile" may be associated with "lunatic", for many people. |
I think its mostly more things to compete for peoples leisure interests and affections these days including portable audio. Mobile is where its at these days. And even when sitting at home on ones arse, just for entertainment purposes, internet, gizzilions of cable channels, video games, HD TV etc. Times change... |
Come to think of it, Alan says that flat-panel TV's are likely the single noisiest appliance found in the home, nowadays. But, no wonder if maybe introductory vinyl- or digital-based systems are not turning on quite as many people as they used to...my experience, so far, anyway. |
At least one technical explanation has occurred to me as to why the number 'true' audiophiles has recently declined - despite the fact that most gear quality continues to improve. Over the last 5 years I'd begun investigating the whole topic of power conditioning for myself. Right away I was struck with the fact that not everybody was necessarily satisfied with their solutions, so I learned to proceed cautiously. A couple years ago I came across the Alan Maher Designs website (now facebook only). Although I ultimately tried a few different gizmos from him and was encouraged (absolutely sold was more like it), I eventually came to understand from Alan that the only thing his devices were actually designed to do was to reduce electrical noise - nothing else. Ok, so good, so far. But, the thing is that Alan maintains the idea that "dirty power" from the power company is basically just an audio myth (unless you live within 5 miles of high-arcing heavy industrial motors...like a sawmill, or something). He says (and I've come around to agree with him) that the real source of electrical noise in the home is not the grid, but, in fact, everything that is plugged into the home. Including everything that comes with a sleep mode. Anything that's turned on and is drawing power can generate noise and anything in sleep mode makes 90-95% of the noise the device makes when it's fully on. Of course, every appliance will generate noise - noise that's bidirectional and (despite the fact that it tends to dissipate over distance) will make its way back to the circuit breaker box where it's then redistributed all over the house. I know this is a long explanation, but bear with me. The big problem is that in a modern house, we have a crazy number of devices plugged into the home and almost every one of them these days has a sleep mode. Not only all your appliances, but everything from your clock radio to all your computers, cell-phone chargers, your coffee maker - anything programmable, anything with digital circuitry (which is actually just about everything)...even a wall-wart that's not hooked up to anything and its power light is on...not even to mention your own gear itself - all of the components - everything is throwing noise back to the breaker box - and all that, coincidently, is what Alan's many devices are meant to tackle (at the source, in most cases). But, my point in all this rambling, is that this overcrowding of noise-generating appliances in the home was definitely NOT the case 30 and 40 years ago...! In THOSE homes, only noise was generated when something was in use - and not all that much noise when it was in use. The result?? HiFi's had a much better chance of sounding good for less money back then than they do at all now. A surprisingly much better chance IMO, as it turns out (now that I've had the last 2 years to experiment with Alan's gear myself). Generally, no one has really been aware of this decline in the HiFi environment, in part, because it's been so completely incidious, making its presence felt so slowly over time and only by degrees. It's a real reason why so many people remember their systems of that era so fondly - not strictly so much a matter of sheer nostalgia after all, I think. I can tell from direct experience now, that we would generally perceive these adverse effects on our systems as a more "electronic" kind of sound, a difficulty in achieving system neutrality, harshness, ongoing sibilance problems and a case of the incurable "digital nasties". |
"The Bugatti is a total package not parts you put together.”
Hi Tbg. I don’t think we disagree. In fact, I think you just made the point I was trying to make rather better than I did. Sticking with the Bugatti example, one could collect of all of the parts necessary to construct a Bugatti or any other exotic he desires. How many people would have the vision and knowhow to build one? And if your audio plan is to engage one of the self proclaimed experts in our hobby, you better be lucky. Back to the Bugatti example, the expert would take those parts and build you something that will drive... and perhaps very nicely. But still, there was the unrealized potential of a Bugatti. |
Phaelon, The Bugatti is a total package not parts you put together. At a time when I first started in audio, there were few manufacturers, so you had a Dyna, Heath, Marantz, etc. system or at least their electronics. Also, what do you "not outperformed by a Porsche? In mileage, it might be.
I think it is just a matter of what else you might spend your money and time on. I had receivers and speakers, no television, no computer, only a land line with long distance charges, no earbuds or Iphones, and I was poor. With today's youth, there is time only to text. |
It’s too hard. If you’re an enthusiast of most higher endeavors, e.g., exotic cars, watches, etc., you get what you pay for; and it’s instant gratification. If you learn how to drive a Bugatti, it will perform as expected and never be outperformed by a Porsche. Not so with audio. You can spend your life's savings and years fidgeting with your system and still not come close to achieving what you set out to do. |
Mapman: :) My parents had a Gerrard console that was built-in to a living room cabinet. Not the greatest fidelity, by any stretch, but it was STEREO - something rather rare among anyone I knew in the early 60's. I was turning 5 at the time and I still remember it just plain doing a number on my young imagination! Also recall consciously vowing to one day get a job like my Dad (whatever the heck THAT was...!) and someday learn what it would take to get a good stereo, just as soon as I was old enough to be on my own... |
"Poll most audiophiles and you may find that among many 'hardcore' ones, anyway, they not only often trace their interest back into their childhood, but can also relate it to even a specific event - a moment in which things crystallized for them, and some kind of dream is born. I know I can. But, maybe I'm right about that and maybe I'm not, I guess."
You nailed it exactly in my case!
When I was about 5 years old, I became fascinated with records and record players. The one I had did not work very well though. One day, I was twiddling with it and got a nice electrical shock. I've been a glutton for punishment ever since!
That's a true story, but seriously, I don't need anyone else to love listening to my system. I'm by far the most picky about what sounds good to me. It's a non-issue for most everyone else. THough I am glad to listen and share together when opportunities present themselves. |
I'd venture to guess that (due to the whole 'cost-vs-complexity' thing) we're almost 'forced' to keep it a secret. I mean people tend to get different results with different systems anyway. Heck, even experienced audiophiles can often end up disagreeing on what it takes to get started and build a good system. Experience at system building can be harder to come by than many newcomers may even suppose and they may be either at sea about who to go to for advice they feel they can count on or don't quite realize how much of a learning curve there can be...or maybe they DO sense that and believe it will be overwhelming or time-consuming. At any rate, I tend to suspect that it's perhaps somehow even rare to actually be "bitten by the bug" in the first place. Poll most audiophiles and you may find that among many 'hardcore' ones, anyway, they not only often trace their interest back into their childhood, but can also relate it to even a specific event - a moment in which things crystallized for them, and some kind of dream is born. I know I can. But, maybe I'm right about that and maybe I'm not, I guess. |
It's a great hobby for all of us but some people like to be more active in their bobbies. We don't tend to share but amongst ourselves on these forums. A wood worker or model builder likes to create and show off. We create our system but tend to keep it a secret. I fully understand why there's not more audiophiles. Some people just don't have the time, money or interest. My last boss to,d me he didn't like music. Now there's a question. Who doesn't like music? |
"It's expensive and you sit on your arse to do it. "
Bingo???? |
This question could be asked by a wood worker, baker, gamer, quilt or model maker. Here's you answer. It's expensive and you sit on your arse to do it. |
This thread is probably dead, but I'll give it a try anyway. More people would love audio if they were the target audience of the advertising world. We all know that people in certain age brackets will buy anything that is targeted at them. Nobody can afford to target the high end at more people. Look at Beats. Half-assed $500 headphones that every kid on earth would own if they could. Because they got some cool guys telling them they're good. So they are. If Mark Levinson or B&W or Naim had Puffy or whomever the kids emulate tell them 100 times a day that they had to have a Levinson/Wilson system, they would kill themselves to own one. But the companies aren't willing to put up the millions it takes to buy these guys. Do you think Jeter really drives a Ford Edge? He probably wouldn't use one as his toilet. The kids obviously love music - they listen to it constantly, so it's just a matter of convincing them how to do it. No problem for Madison Avenue. I just wish it would happen. Really. |
Distracted, by other forms of media. |
********Why Don't More People Love Audio?**********
One of the Great Philosophical Questions Facing Mankind. Great minds have not been able to answer it. I doubt if anyone on this site will be able to provide THE answer.
Cheers |
"Mapman, but I know many of them. They tend to not be "technical" in the university sense of the word, but rather military or self trained."
Lots of reasons why people like to tinker. Formal education is not a pre-requisite. I've been doing it with audio gear since I was 8 years old or so. People are curious beasts. |
Mapman, but I know many of them. They tend to not be "technical" in the university sense of the word, but rather military or self trained. |
I tend to agree with Charker.
But there are many choices out there for anyone interested, like always, from the cheapest mass produced garbage to the biggest and most expensive "high end" gear. VEry few who like audio probably pay all that much attention to the "high end" as represented on Audiogon. The Internet is the main source of stuff to buy however these days, not walk in stores.
There is a lot of good stuff to be found on Audiogon but little or no quality control to go with it. If you do not know what you are doing, you can waste a lot of money in the pursuit of "high end" sound. But if you are one who likes to tinker with expensive audio gear and tweaks, more power to ya. But that is a very small % of teh people out there who love music or even audio to any extent. |
Easy,
Snobbishness, elitism and stuffiness of a lot of audiophiles. Prices go up as economy sours. It almost like a polo club business plan.
Having introduced some non-audiophile people to better audio over the years, I think that the audiophile world would do better by encouraging the building of low cost, high bang for the buck systems. Non audiophiles who have listened to the systems I have had over the years have responded with, "I didn't even know there was piano in this song", "this rocks so much more then it normally sounds like", "how much would it cost to get a system that sounds like this? "
Come on 120,000 speakers, 60,000 amps, 6,000 cables, the average, and I think right in this case, person, says to himself"these people are idiots". Just think for 120,00 you could go to a lot of concerts and hear what music really sounds like.
By staying so non approachable, audiophile stereo has albatrossed itself with an aging and shrinking customer base. I think they need to become more relevant, price, market and culture wise. |
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I believe MOST people have no idea what high end audio equipment is. Once they've heard it... many people with money will buy it. How do you expose these people to this kind of equipment? The saying ... You know what you know, but you don't know what you don't know, applies. If you don't know it's out there and you stumble across a local store, that may, or may not have high end equipment to demo... You might be intimidated by the sales person. What questions could you possibly ask about something you know nothing about? Many very wealthy people depend on industry experts to choose their gear for them, if it isn't what they want, they depend on them to sell it for them too. Convenience is key! |
Good point Mapman. I know plenty of music lover's that don't think twice about the sound. They're probably the lucky ones.
I fell into it at a very young age because I was the youngest of 5 music lover's so I was surrounded by music and a stereo in each bedroom. If it weren't for that who knows what would have happened. My parents weren't into music much at all, just my grandmother who would play Perry Como, the piano and would sing to us. (I know is misspelled Perry's name but.....). |
Too busy listening to music? |
'Your opinion, not a fact.'
Are you suggesting that every word uttered on every post on this site is, or has to be a FACT!!! Maybe it's the way I talk. I get this alot and no one else seems to.
IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO |
10-08-12: Rok2id
Classical music is the only genre that demands high end audio systems. Your opinion, not a fact. |
Classical music is the only genre that demands high end audio systems. Timbre is everything in classical music and the 'groups' can range from a soloist to over 100 in a full blown orchestra. But, it seems to me, that the people that 'talk' about the music they like on this site, seem to lean towards small pop music groups that could and can be reproduced easily by a Bose table radio. Of course we are all guilty of 'over kill' when it comes to equipment, but thats part of the enjoyment of this hobby.
Cheers. |
it is not surprising that people express a distaste for anything. there is an expression in latin that is very old and expresses such a thought:
de gustibus est non disputandem (i hope i spelled the last word correctly)
there are a lot of people who are iconoclastic when it comes to pop culture.
i certainly think that a love of music is very common among the populace.
i think there is a connotation implied by the question, namely a superciliousness regarding certain genres of music, which may account for a small minority of audiophiles in the world.
it would be interesting to find out , among audiophiles, what percentage does not like popular music.
i suspect that more than 50 percent of audiophiles have an appreciation of classical music. i suspect that this genre is the least popular, and it may explain why there are so few audiophiles. it follows logically that if i am correct, the number of audiophiles may diminish over time, if there is a high correlation berween age and love for classical music. |
'My boss has clearly stated to me "I don't like music'
Actually, this is more common among audiophiles than you might think. |
Fascination for good music reproduction or appreciation of the same, is a God given gift that very few of us have. And I am happy that I am one of them. |
My boss has clearly stated to me "I don't like music." I did not know this opinion was even possible and in my 46 years on this planet its the first time I've heard of this. I would imagine there's more people out there like this but I doubt ill ever meet another in my lifetime. No sense in trying to convert someone who probably never even turned on the car stereo. |
And that's cool...strength in numbers is key. but let's make our voices heard! |
Judging by how many posts this thread has received, I think many people do love audio. |
Has anything changed in the 12 years since this thread was started? |
one can analyze the question until the cows come in , but there is an obvious answer.
people have different tastes. some like boats, expensive cars, art objects, etc. . those who are passionate about a particular hobby, may have no interest in another.
time is also a consideration. if someone is involved in other pursuits, there may be no time left for another hobby which is time consuming
think of a persons's available leisure time as a pie. the pie is divided into slices. each slice may represent a desired activity. for some, audio is not a desirable activity because other interests will supersede it.
it's just a matter of priorities. |
