Why does most new music suck?

Lowrider57, One of the interesting aspects of the formula is a hook played every seven seconds or less to keep the brain from turning away, which means the product is formulated more for the sensibilities of Skinner Pigeons, rather than tunefulness,meaning, or emotional response.

Because the audience for it does as well.

Electroslacker,
I googled Max Martin and thanks to you I now know why 90% of new music sucks.

Funny thing, a few years back I was thinking about the sorry state that music was in and that you could substitute any artist's vocal with another artist's music and the end result would be identical.

Whoops- meant Sweden. The book is, The Song Machine, about the industrialization of songwriting and music production. Good book.

I think, there is too much commerce in arts including music. It's off the balance. Business should support arts, not the other way around. When Miles got rich, he started playing mostly what? That's right. Creativity is very much down these days. And computers help.
Sometimes I can spend half a weekend in an effort to find interesting well-performed music on youtube, and I consider myself lucky if I find one track. But when I do find it, the quality of the recording is questinable at best, and if I want to find at least cd, let alone record, I can't.

Real good post Oregonpapa. I know a guy who compares all new music to the British Invasion era, being absolutely and forever obsessed with it, especially The damn Beatles. He is constantly bemoaning the fact that his favorite style music is no longer in vogue, and can't understand how anyone can like any new music that isn't like it. I, myself, can't understand how anyone our age can bear hearing a The damn Beatles song again, ever. How many times can a person listen to a song of their's before there is nothing more to hear, for God's sake?! Okay, maybe Rubber Soul, occasionally ;-).

It's literally formulistic. A guy named Max Martin in Stockholm has had 21 number one billboard hits in America because he has a formula. His net worth is around 250 million. He does the instrumentation with the hooks, lays down the vocal track, then sells it to Taylor Swift, Kelly Clarkson, Britney Spears,Katy Perry, Pink, Backstreet Boys, etc with the requirement that they sing it exactly like he did on the demo. He rarely uses real instruments.About a quarter of hits are now coming out of Denmark. There's a book on the whole Denmark music factory, or Google his name with New Yorker.

Musical taste seems to be generational. Every time I hear an "artist" like Bruce Springsteen, I have visions of Nat King Cole or Johnny Hartman turning over in their graves.

I began to get turned off on "new" music when the guitar replaced the saxophone as the lead instrument; when Elvis started making millions from the Black musicians who were left standing poor; when Sarah Vaughn was replaced on the radio with Janis Joplin.

Not that I never recovered of course. Over the many years I've learned through exposure to appreciate a lot of rock music, some of which is really great. Most "advancements" of that genre still sound to me like a lot of "who can scream the loudest."

I've downloaded so many suggestions in this forum via Spotify and have tried to find music that is unfamiliar to me in an effort to expand my musical tastes. For the most part, I am finding recordings that are DRENCHED in artificial digital reverb. What's up with that? I suspect it's a way to cover up deficiencies in the artist's voice.

One thing I've noticed ... the music folks liked as teens seem to stick with them through life. It takes a real effort to expand beyond that. I remember a friend who loved opera. I hated it. He told me that opera was a lot like jazz ... one must listen to it a lot before the light bulb comes on. So, I stuck a cassette tape of Madam Butterfly in my car and listened to it over and over. As my friend said, the light bulb came on and I recognized the beauty and genius of opera. I now have a healthy opera collection ... Puccini mostly. I did the same with classical music. Yep, I still prefer Cal Tjader, Paul Desmond, Ella and Sarah ... but I listen to lots of classical, opera, rock, country (old school), too.

Memo to the engineers ... get the reverb out of the mix, PLEASE!

Music had been replaced by entertainment and money.

Inna wrote,

"Why wouldn't it?"

Exactly!

Why wouldn't it?

Try Davina and the Vagabonds and the new "Snow Goose" by Camel that was redone in 2013.

That's really good. I also liked his "Some of Shelley's Blues" which Linda Rondstadt covered. And "Her Name was Joann." The guy could write a tune, that's for certain.

I truly love this:

What Am I Doing Hanging Round

Maybe I'm starting to come around to thinking even that which is shunned at the time by many music lovers and critics really isn't so bad?

No Missy Elliot? No Public Enemy? No Outkast? No Roots?
All you audiophiles are just bass shy playing that album oriented rock.

A new post reminded me of Goldfrapp. New footage as they prepare to tour. A lot of great video's on youtube. Very good singer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkC13tW5WNM

Here is my list of top rated songs on Radio Paradise. Anything that I like a lot typically gets a 7 or better.

10 - King Crimson - Epitaph
10 - Traveling Wilburys - End Of The Line
10 - The Beatles - When I'm Sixty-four
10 - The Beatles - In My Life
10 - Peter Gabriel - Mercy Street
10 - The Beatles - You Never Give Me/The End
10 - Simon & Garfunkel - The Boxer
10 - Grateful Dead - Ripple
10 - Elton John - Rocket Man
10 - Erik Satie - Gymnopedie No. 1
10 - Moody Blues - Gypsy (of a strange and distant time)
10 - Neil Young - Helpless
10 - Ray Charles - I've Got a Woman
10 - Aaron Copland - Fanfare for the Common Man
10 - John Coltrane - Naima
10 - Temptations - Papa Was a Rolling Stone
10 - Duke Ellington - Sassy
10 - Paul Simon - Late In The Evening
10 - J.S. Bach - Toccata in D minor
10 - King Crimson - One Time
10 - David Bowie - Space Oddity
10 - Porcupine Tree - Sentimental
9 - Johnny Cash - The Mercy Seat
9 - Blind Melon - No Rain
9 - Peter Gabriel - Growing Up
9 - Chantays - Pipeline
9 - The Beatles - Hey Bulldog
9 - The Beatles - Revolution 1
9 - The Pretenders - Back on the Chain Gang (live)
9 - Bob Dylan - Everything is Broken
9 - Doc Watson & David Grisman - Summertime
9 - Moody Blues - Blue World
8 - Porcupine Tree - My Ashes
8 - Rodrigo y Gabriela - Stairway to Heaven
8 - Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus
8 - Ozric Tentacles - Iscence
8 - The Church - Reptile
8 - Seal - Crazy
8 - The Who - Bargain
8 - Massive Attack - Teardrop
8 - Sivert Hoyem - Prisoner of the Road
8 - Porcupine Tree - Stars Die
8 - Stevie Wonder - Superstition
8 - Nick Lowe - Cracking Up
8 - Robert Palmer - Johnny and Mary
8 - Crowded House - Private Universe
8 - Radiohead - These Are My Twisted Words
8 - Nat King Cole - (Get Your Kicks On) Route 66
8 - Band of Horses - Factory
8 - U2 - New Year's Day
8 - Pink Floyd - Learning to Fly
7 - Shriekback - All Lined Up
7 - Habib Koité & Bamada - Wassiyé
7 - Sonic Youth - Stones
7 - Steely Dan - Deacon Blues
7 - R.E.M. - What's The Frequency, Kenneth
7 - Natalie Merchant - Nursery Rhyme Of Innocence And Experience
7 - Moby - Look Back In
7 - Papa Wemba - Sala Keba (Be Careful)
7 - Breaks Co-op - The Sound Inside
7 - Thievery Corporation - Forgotten People
7 - PJ Harvey - This Mess We're In (w/ Thom Yorke)
7 - Peter Murphy - Cuts You Up
7 - The Blue Nile - Tomorrow Morning
7 - Gorillaz - Stylo
7 - Eels - Mr E's Beautiful Blues
7 - Squirrel Nut Zippers - Blue Angel
7 - Kathleen Edwards - Goodnight, California
7 - The Doors - Cars Hiss By My Window
7 - Turin Brakes - Sea Change
7 - XTC - Greenman
7 - Joe Satriani - Sleep Walk

Here's one of the few newer songs I ranked a 10 on Radio Paradise. I tend to not do this in general preferring to save 10s for songs that have proved their worth over time as classics, but this is perhaps one of the most beautiful yet chilling and sad tunes ever:

Porcupine Tree - Sentimental
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Uploaded on Nov 29, 2010

Track 4 from "Fear of a Blank Planet" (2007)

Never want to be old
And I don't want dependence
It's no fun to be told
That you can't blame your parents anymore

I'm finding it hard
To hang from a star
I don't want to be...
Never want to be old

Sullen and bored the kids stay
And in this way wish away each day
Stoned in the mall the kids play
And in this way wish away each day

I don't really know
If I care what is normal
And I'm not really sure
If the pills I've been taking are helping

I've wasted my life
And I'm hurting inside
I don't really know
And I'm not really sure...

Sullen and bored the kids stay
And in this way wish away each day
Stoned in the mall the kids play
And in this way wish away each day

Sullen and bored the kids stay
And in this way wish away each day
Stoned in the mall the kids play
And in this way wish away each day

And the top classic songs:

Jimi Hendrix - All Along The Watchtower (9.651)
2. The Beatles - A Day In The Life (9.65)
3. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here (9.639)
4. Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata (9.637)
5. Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond (9.577)
6. J.S. Bach - Toccata in D minor (9.575)
7. Pink Floyd - Echoes (9.563)
8. Beethoven - Symphony No.5 - Allegro Con Brio (9.556)
9. Dave Brubeck Quartet - Take Five (9.55)
10. Vivaldi - The 4 Seasons: Summer (9.531)
11. Pink Floyd - Time (9.525)
12. The Beatles - You Never Give Me/The End (9.518)
13. Jimi Hendrix - Little Wing (9.514)
14. Pink Floyd - Us & Them -> Eclipse (9.508)
15. Mozart - Symphony No. 40 - Molto Allegro (9.468)
16. Simon & Garfunkel - The Sound of Silence (9.467)
17. Jimi Hendrix - Little Wing (live) (9.466)
18. The Beatles - While My Guitar Gently Weeps (9.465)
19. Simon & Garfunkel - The Boxer (9.447)
20. Pink Floyd - Comfortably Numb (9.435)
21. The Beatles - Here Comes The Sun (9.433)
22. Jimi Hendrix - Purple Haze (9.43)
23. Otis Redding - (Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay (9.402)
24. The Beatles - Let It Be (9.394)
25. Jimi Hendrix - Voodoo Child (Slight Return) (9.393)
26. Beethoven - Für Elise (9.385)
27. Etta James - At Last (9.38)
28. Louis Armstrong - What A Wonderful World (9.377)
29. Benny Goodman - Sing, Sing, Sing (9.349)
30. Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter (9.326)
31. The Beatles - Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown) (9.32)
32. Jimi Hendrix - The Wind Cries Mary (9.312)
33. Mozart - Eine Kleine Nachtmusik - Allegro (9.306)
34. The Beatles - Eleanor Rigby (9.295)
35. Rolling Stones - Paint It Black (9.289)
36. Jimi Hendrix - Red House (9.281)
37. The Beatles - You've Got To Hide Your Love Away (9.279)
38. John Lennon - Imagine (9.277)
39. Simon & Garfunkel - America (9.275)
40. The Beatles - Strawberry Fields Forever (9.27)
41. The Who - Baba O'Riley (9.267)
42. Pink Floyd - The Great Gig In The Sky (9.265)
43. Led Zeppelin - Babe I'm Gonna Leave You (9.26)
44. The Beatles - In My Life (9.255)
45. B.B. King - The Thrill Is Gone (9.248)
46. The Beatles - Blackbird (9.243)
47. Johann Sebastian Bach - Violin Concerto No.4 In E, Adagio (9.235)
48. Antonio Vivaldi - The 4 Seasons - Summer - Allegro Non Molto (9.223)
49. Van Morrison - Into The Mystic (9.222)
50. Otis Redding - I've Been Loving You Too Long (9.217)
51. Erik Satie - Gnossienne No1 (9.206)
52. Duke Ellington - Stormy Weather (9.204)
53. Vince Guaraldi Trio - Linus and Lucy (9.202)
54. Led Zeppelin - Ramble On (9.195)
55. Johnny Cash - Folsom Prison Blues (9.18)
56. Ray Charles - Hit The Road Jack (9.139)
57. Chuck Berry - Johnny B. Goode (9.135)
58. Sam Cooke - A Change is Gonna Come (9.13)
59. Patsy Cline - Crazy (9.127)
60. Edvard Grieg - Hall of the Mountain King (9.122)

Here's the current top new CD list on Radio Paradise.

Alt-J - An Awesome Wave
2. The National - Trouble Will Find Me
3. Woodkid - The Golden Age
4. Patty Griffin - American Kid
5. Owiny Sigoma Band - Power Punch
6. Daughter - If You Leave
7. I Am Kloot - Let It All In
8. The Boxer Rebellion - Promises
9. Calexico - Algiers
10. Beth Orton - Sugaring Season
11. Harry Manx - Om Suite Ohm
12. Ludovico Einaudi - In a Time Lapse
13. Sarah Blasko - I Awake
14. Sinkane - Mars
15. Gabrielle Aplin - English Rain
16. Neil Halstead - Palindrome Hunches
17. Vel Indica - Turn Off Your Devices
18. The Spring Standards - Yellow/Gold
19. Caro Emerald - The Shocking Miss Emerald
20. Ben Howard - Every Kingdom
21. Bat for Lashes - The Haunted Man
22. Grizzly Bear - Shields
23. thenewno2 - thefearofmissingout
24. Serafina Steer - The Moths Are Real
25. Shook Twins - Window
26. Black Rebel Motorcycle Club - Specter At The Feast
27. Various Artists - Beautiful Creatures OST
28. The Smashing Pumpkins - Oceania
29. Night Beds - Country Sleep
30. KT Tunstall - Invisible Empire // Crescent Moon

If I could have my way, I would bring back all the record stores I have frequented over the years and they and the ones still around would all thrive.

But, if I had to chose between how I found and accessed new music years ago to what can be done today, I'm afraid I would have to let the fond memories go and move forward.

There is one thing from the past I have mentioned in older threads that I would bring back. The more I think about it, the more I think it could be a viable business proposition to actually do it now more than ever.

"I have fond nostalgic memories of record stores as well"... My now 7 and 9 year old granddaughters talk in nostalgic terms about the great times they use to have when we'd go to Barnes & Noble where they'd dance with the headphones on.

Well, it was a very informative thread I thought regardless.

Oh I got it alright and they're in my collection. You torch bearers seem to think that us so called new music 'haters' are a bunch of lazy whiners. Show me one post where some one's lamenting 'oh woe is me'. You guys are the lazy whiners who can't seem to get it through your heads that there's more music than you'll ever be able to listen to just once not including this new garbage which is basically noise. We're just wise enough to not engage in a futile exercise.

Csontos - you just don't get it. Not going to waste any more of my time dealing with your skewed perspective.

I never said they did. What I'm asserting is what was available was easily accessible/attainable, always. Then, and now. One way or another. When you add that stuff together with the shitload of crap being produced today, of course there's more being offered. No argument there. This 'owner's budget', 'offering preferences', 'physical store size', etc. is another load of you know what. Any decent establishment was happy to order what you were looking for. They had catalogues and I was one happy customer:)

I have fond nostalgic memories of record stores as well, but Rock is right. There is no way one can compare what is at one's disposal today in terms of music resources to back then. It's night and day.

Nostalgia can can clearly be a factor regarding why old music has more appeal than the new for so many. There were experiences attached to that music for many as well as the music itself.

Csontos - You think pre-CD era stores offered as much information and selections as today's Amazon, AllMusic, band web sites, YouTube, A'gon, E-Bay, etc.? They did not. They could not. You cannot be serious. They were limited to owner's budget, offering preferences, physical store size, less access to out of prints, almost zero information outside of album jacket printings and perhaps a few potentially knowledgable employees, etc. Today, these numerous, expansive, world-wide, lightening quick, at my finger tips, on-line sources/outlets easily beat record stores of old for finding new music.

There's a music store I frequent up here with both loads of vinyl and cds. They'll play a cd or album for you but they won't open a new re-issue vinyl which stands to reason. I really don't see how choice has been compromised at all in any way, shape, or form as it relates to any era.

Well, I do miss being able to go into a record store like that and look at records, but once CDs did records in, there was really not much to look at much anymore. Now the Internet has put those days to rest for good, for the most part, FBOFW. THough it does seem that most metro areas still have a couple of specialty record/music shops around, so not totally extinct quite yet. There are a few near me, but gotta admit I only get there once in a blue moon these days and buy most of my new music via internet.

No. Don't know where you were during the vinyl days but the record store, A.K.A., Sam The Record Man let you either play albums already open, or open and play on a pair of probably 6 or 8 available ear phone sets. Mind you, you had to be an established customer to open one up. And there was always scuttlebutt about the non-worthwhile crap. So still no comparison to today, I'm truly sorry to say.

+++Rockadanny

No doubt there has never been a better time to be a music lover than today and a big part of it is the variety of and accessibility to new music.

Hearing crap 'back in the day' and hearing it now brings you to the same conclusions. There's no mystery. We have plenty of examples from way back when too.

Agree! There was tons of crap back then as well. Always has been loads of crap, always will be. But also will there continue to be plenty of great stuff IF you know where to find it. (Clue: it likely will not be on your car's FM radio dial or played at your local Kohl's store.) IMO, it is not that today's music sucks (any more than yesterday's or tomorrow's), but more an issue of accessibility - are you looking in the right places for it?

And back then, what made it worse than today for consumers (yes, it was far worse back then), was not so much the amount of crap, but that there was no youtube, samples, internet, podcasts, self-produced releases, etc. where you could research and/or listen to weed it out from the good stuff BEFORE you plunked your $3.99 down for an album. Nor were there self-produced releases so much great music went unrecorded, or at least poorly distributed, due to record company twits who were unable to categorize the music or recognize great talent. FM radio was better back then, depending on your city, but most of the time you had to just take a chance on a musician's reputation or album cover art to try to predict whether you were buying crap or gem.

With home recording available on the cheap and with the media options we have today, the big labels are less important than before. Everyone has a chance to have their music heard. So the labels' influence over what we hear is on the wane.

Maybe but not likely.

The silly part of this question is the absolutism "why does most music suck? is riridiculous. Thousand upon thousands of songs are written arranged and played for some music decision maker. That persom has to decide whether this or that song by th this or that artist will even have a remote chance of reaching our ears. Maybe most music is pretty decent but we just don't get to hear it!

One thing for sure about most modern music compared to 60s and 70s classic rock, psychedelic is definitely not "in" these days. Not very groovy, baby.....

Hearing crap 'back in the day' and hearing it now brings you to the same conclusions. There's no mystery. We have plenty of examples from way back when too.

Todd,
if you had read my previous posts on this thread you'd know that I embrace some current artists and the concept of new music in general.

I do think there was more good stuff proportionally in the 50's, 60's and 70's than since. There was also a lot of bad stuff in those decades.

"What if I didn't have my old 'reference' points for comparison?"

I agree that not holding new music you hear up to comparison with one's existing musical reference points is key to being able to gain an appreciation for new music. Newer artists usually are influenced by older artists, but each is unique. Art is often about creativity and exploration, not fitting some existing mold.

I recall the allmusic.com site lists influence relationships among artists, which can be helpful for finding new acts one might like based on current likes and dislikes.

Maybe part of the problem with learning to like new music is that it involves some work perhaps on the listener's part to break their "mold". That may not appeal to all. That's fine, but I just do not see any value in asserting most new music sucks and then arguing about it. It's obviously a personal opinion that is of little value to others, though one is entitled to express their opinion, whatever it may be.

Tostadosnidos, the sky is blue where I come from because I embrace great new music,art,movies etc...
I would think that for you skeptics, haters,and closed minded individuals the weather is real dark ,cloudy,with a chance to listen to the same old crap over and over again.
It's all good I guess, you guys keep recycling the same old music, I'll embrace the great musicians/artist of today.
I love music period! But if I had to listen to Zep, The Beatles, Who, over and over I would sell my rig and find a new hobby.

Sometimes I play this 'what if' scenario in my mind when hearing new music. What if I was hearing this new music back in the day? What if I didn't have my old 'reference' points for comparison? IMO as an older music-lover, it's possible to be jaded due to a variety of reasons. I've understood this about myself for a long time and always try to have an 'open-eared' approach when listening to new music.

What did I forget?

All I am saying is that more recent artists will probably be most popular 1000 years from now just like they are today. Recent artists relative to ones youth or formative stages of life that is. Not to say the "classic" acts might still not be popular to some extent as well. Rock/pop is only one genre to consider. THere will be other newer ones that will seem to be much fresher in 100 years as well, I would predict. Time will tell what those will be as the generations pass.

No. Your prediction for the appeal of the 'new music' 100 years from now:)

"Aren't you forgetting something?"

Where's the new Dylan????

Aren't you forgetting something?

"There is plenty of music being produced every year that is as good or even better than the Beatles ,Stones,Who, etc... IMHO "

IF those are one's reference artists, it's no surprise no others would be deemed as good or better.

Doesn't mean those who came after suck though. Maybe only in comparison?

WHere are the new BEatles?

Stones?

Zeppelin?

Bach?

Chuck Berry?

Johnny Cash?

Those ships have sailed. What's come after may bear some comparison but is not the same.

So if your looking for new artists to fill the void left by other older classic acts, you will have a long wait.

Doesn;t mean the new music sucks though. Just more of a challenge than ever though perhaps to tread new ground. Many do it quite well if perhaps not to the same extent or scale or volume of output as some big names from the past.

THere will probably be lots of BEatles lovers 100 years from now, just like there are many who still appreciate Bach or Mozart today, but I doubt they will still be first in most peoples hearts by then.

Toddnkaya wrote:

There is plenty of music being produced every year that is as good or even better than the Beatles ,Stones,Who, etc... IMHO

Wow--what color is the sky on your world?

Second the 'It sucks wind' post.

Oh, almost forgot... !!

Toddnkaya I did check out your suggestions and didn't find anything that did it for me. Hey that's OK, so I will just continue to listen.