Because, in general, audiophiles are a surly group of curmudgeons.
If you don’t believe me just look through the threads on this forum.
If you don’t believe me just look through the threads on this forum.
WHY DO SOME AUDIOPHILES THINK YOU ARE BRAGGING WHEN YOU ARE SHARING?
I have seen many people share what they have and what they have heard on audiogon and there are always a few people that come on with negative comments about the person bragging or,the put down the higher end gear that one is speaking about. Why do you think that happens?
95 responses Add your response
Well, in the spirit of the New Year, I will try to tone my sarcasm down. Hopefully this resolution lasts until at least the end of the week. Seriously, there should be a place where people who want to spend a lot of money on Audio can post and feel at home, because one of the good things about the Internet is that it provides forum for people of like interests to bond. Audiophiles are already a niche community. In the non virtual world, I only have a couple of Audiophile friends, and I am embarrassed to admit to regular people what I spend on this hobby. i like to post here and read everyone else’s posts and be both stimulated and reassured that there are others like me and that I am not some total alien. So why do we, a group that is marginalized, heap scorn those who really like to flaunt their stuff? It’s part envy, surely, that all to human emotion. I think the larger part is that at some level some of us have some guilt about our hobby. Yes, we could have paid for one year of the new Grandchild College with what we just spent on the latest component. Yes, my wife’s requests to sit and watch Netflix with her might be more enticing but damn I didn’t get a chance to listen to my system today and she understands, but I feel guilty. All of that stuff bubbles to to the surface when someone starts crowing about comparing their Air Force I turntable vs their dcs stack with their new Wilson speakers and yes, now I really can hear Keith Moon fart about 2 minutes into Baba O’Reilly and I hadn’t heard that before and now that I have I have justified both my expenditures and my existence in the cosmos. We read that, we see a part of ourselves that we don’t like, and project our guilt feelings onto the OP. No, I’m not a Psychologist. Perhaps I should stop posting with a hangover. I’m going to listen to some Bruckner now. Happy New Year 🎈 |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
@han_n I run into that problem a lot on audiogon. When I mention experiences with the higher end equipment then the judgement wolves come out. My interest is not in the lower end equipment at this point. I want to hear and share experiences with things that I’m actually interested in buying. The guys who buy the cheaper equipment think im dissing THIER stuff but I’m not. I typically try equipment in the ranges that my other stuff is in. I pick equipment not because of price. I look at the design and tech and I choose things that match my other parts well. When I mention the prices people rail like I’m showing off caviar or something. I stop even starting threads because it turns into my cheap stuff is better than your expensive stuff dummy! |
I’m afraid the audiophile Catch-22 has reared it’s ugly head. If you don’t think wire directionality, fancy fuses, Mpingo disc, green pen, Silver Rainbow 🌈 Foil, etc. are preposterous and outrageous you must be crazy. But if you are an ardent audiophile determined to get the best sound with whatever system you have, then if you don’t explore these concepts and perhaps see what they’re all about you must be crazy. 😜 |
@N80 + 1 (Plus, we're all free to be nuts about our hobby. I think it helps if we understand and acknowledge that we're nuts and that our chosen form of insanity might not be for everyone). Nuts in the eyes of others. That's okay, as long as we believe to understand our own motivation/justification for our hobby. The moment we feel/realize we are nuts ourselves, we may probably be better off spending the money on a shrink. ;) |
Many years ago, when I occasionally sold "hifi" equipment, people sometimes chose equipment which would never have been my choice. But the smile on their face, the satisfaction I could see on their face was always enough for me to hold back a bit, and respect the choices made by them. I could have started to explain why I thought there was other equipment performing better at the same price level, but in the end what counts is that people are happy with their choices. I could always congratulate them, telling them they had made a good choice. This also applies to equipment being more expensive, people do compare, do listen, however other aspects like visible appearance and so on come into play as well. Finally, when the choice is made, whether it be for a $ 1 k or $ 500k system, everybody is proud of the choice he/she's made. So everybody will want to explain the motivation for that particular choice. There is no reason for dispute. Individuals make different choices, based on knowledge, advises, experience, or other preferences. We should respect, and congratulate. Bragging about, or showing off with audio equipment may not be the most logic choice, it's much easier to brag about or show off with your new Mercedes, BMW or Breitling/Rolex. If I mention to my neighbor or other friends that I'm using brand "A" for my speakers, they would seriously advise me to go and listen to the latest model of Pioneer or Bose or ........ speakers, they are really good. If I tell people about my amps, they look at me as if I'm quite stupid, I'm advised to listen to local (=Indonesian) manufactured brands, which can be had for $ 250,- deliver also 2x 200 Watt, and can go really -way too- loud as well. All I'm saying is that bragging about your high-end audio equipment doesn't really work that well. On this forum members tend to be skeptical / cynical about so called "high-end", (costing more than $ 5k for the whole system) so you better not publish it here should you own something costing more than average. Other forums have their members mentioning the equipment they are using, which in a way is nice, so you may find members who have made the same or similar choices like yourself. It is easier to contact such members, and raise particular questions about that particular equipment/set-up. There is no bragging at all. Okay, some spend more than others, so what is wrong with that?? Some jealousy will always be there, what's wrong with that? We all have our own budgets, and have to buy within such budget, so that's a matter of fact. But it doesn't mean that I can't appreciate that somebody has nicer equipment than what I have, if the guy is happy, so why not. |
@stereo5 it’s best to remember that hatefulness or talking down to someone is just an attempt to make the person, doing the hurting, feel better with themselves. This type of behavior stems from insecurity and you shouldn’t let it bother you although I know it’s hard not to. One of the problems with social media is believing you are dealing with like minded people. I often project onto my readers/responders my own ideas about what is acceptable behavior when in fact these ‘strangers’ are very much their own people with their own ideas. While it’s nice to get flattering remarks from people we do not know it’s often much better when coming from someone we love. Of course that’s a double edged sword given the fact if someone we love commenced to be hateful or mean or accusatory. It’s understandable you’d want to share your joy in this forum but remember to take any response with a grain of salt. Ultimately you know what you got and at the end of the day that’s what counts. Haters gonna hate. Its just the way they are. |
(Disclaimer: I didn’t read the thread in its entirety.) Briefly, the comments from Audiogon members regarding my and a friend’s system have all been encouraging, positive and congratulatory. On two occasions, in fact, knowledgeable members took the time to comment on our system to the extent I bought the suggested preamp and my friend is having his speakers rebuilt by someone recommended to him. Neither event would have occurred if it weren’t for their generosity, this site. |
Well, I think anyone approaching any internet forum on any subject needs to be a little thick skinned. Its just the world out there and the world can be a mean place. I think better communication skills would help us all. I often ask for help on some subject and fail to put my issue in perspective. Subsequently I'll get advice that entails spending thousands of dollars when I'm trying to spend next to nothing. It is perfectly sound advice but not relevant to my needs and budget which I failed to reveal. Now, when that happens my reaction is NOT to think they are bragging or showing off and quite frankly that has never crossed my mind. I might think they are out of touch with my reality and needs but that does not imply anything wrong with them. I might even think they are nuts for suggesting a $3750 dollar used phono cartridge or a cable burner.....but will acknowledge that in my inexperience I can't say anything objective about such devices/measures. Plus, we're all free to be nuts about our hobby. I think it helps if we understand and acknowledge that we're nuts and that our chosen form of insanity might not be for everyone. |
Audiogon has become a place like Facebook and twitter where it has become one giant episode of mean girls. It has become a place where instead of sharing and taking information to use in the hobby people automatically think you are bragging and showing off. In turn they will quickly let you know that because you are an idiot because you paid too much or didn’t pay enough. There are different levels of experience, knowledge and dedication in this hobby that we all need to respect. I come on to share in hopes of helping others gain from the experiences I have had and to gain from others. I wish all of you the best no matter you can and can’t afford or are willing to pay. Everyone thinks they got it figured out until they realize they don’t! |
@calvinj : just give it a rest for a decade or so, and your worries shall fade away... I used to mention/brag about my top-of-the-line Naim Audio "olive series" kit 10+ years ago, nowadays I just do not care if anyone else wants to comment: this is my "final destination"... until I head for retirement home and shall downgrade onto Pono player... I suggest re-reading Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy: its subtitle "do not worry" is priceless!!! As I've already mentioned elsewhere, me attending LA Opera sometimes is a bummer when their A/C is malfunctioning of if I cheaped-out on the seating. But LP12 into Naim amplification and SBLs (as in my profile): they never let me down :-) |
".....who finally agreed that CJs’ equipment is ’a Gift from the Gods’. I turned off the leads to the ’trodes applied to ’nether regions down from 30KVDC on the neon transformer, but left the restraints in place...." Everything Is Awesome!!! Especially Yours! WhatEVER it is.... ( spoofing Devo’s Mark Mothersbaugh) ....can we go home now? *hopeful S* |
"
I am a totally humble soul, even though I know I AM better than all of you. And I offer my genius for you to marvel at. NO need to offer gifts. My brilliance is gift enough. Yes my system is the work of Genius. Please do not try to copy it. That would only make you smaller than you already are now. When I comment on your system, consider them the comments an adult makes about the playthings of a toddler" LOL literally LOL / Well done Elizabeth |
I'm actually bragging so people will think I'm cool, and generally it's from the "I buy used and new stuff for less money from research and dumb luck" school of bragging. Nobody thinks I'm cool though, so I'm planning to drop more names, mention how insanely wealthy and good looking I am, and how very cool and smart audio and music professionals drop by my place frequently to marvel at my uber fabulous sound system. That could do the trick...yeah man... |
Judging from the many threads of late, suggesting that us lowly, lower ranked audio enthusiasts, or the public in general, somehow despise both, those with the means to buy the most pricey stuff and their uber expensive systems - I’d say it seems to be quite the opposite. There are a few on this forum, who never miss an opportunity to remind us, either directly or by supposition, how superior they and their expensive systems are, insinuating that most on this forum, really don’t qualify as audiophiles, then whine that we don’t like them. Another continuously suggests that the American audio enthusiasts fall far beneath his lofty perception of who qualifies as an audiophile. There may be a bit more truth than satire in Elizabeth’s post - not meaning Elizabeth, per say - but there are a few. My opinion: Like most things, ones audio system is completely relative and subjective, not only to one’s budget, but to the space it needs to fill; to the specific music one most enjoys and most important - to the likes and expectations of the individual. Happy listening....Jim |
| Post removed |
@stereo5 this is exactly why I asked the question I did. I was perplexed to have people think I was bragging. I’m just sharing. I have nothing to brag about. Because I have been exposed to the most expensive stuff and some of the very cutting edge stuff I don’t look at gear like it’s something to brag on. I try to get the best sound I can without spending the crazy money. I think I found my personal sweet spot. I hate the people that come on and have no idea what any of the stuff I mention even sounds like. They down it and haven’t even heard it. Geez! |
Sorry but honestly all I seem to get is not responses from some. I get why this why that. I ask cause I see it happening. I ask because I wonder why. I love this hobby. I love to explore different sounds and equipment etc. I share not to brag but to help expand knowledge of those in the hobby. My experiences are unique because I’ve been able to own and hear the lower priced gear all the way to the top in actual listening environments. I love talking audio but I hate the negative energy I see in threads. I’m just saying. You don’t have to always read extra info what other people do or say. Yes I have a nice system but there are nicer and better out there and I’m just SHARING NOT BRAGGING! |
| Post removed |
Some products are an inherent brag even if the owner says nothing (a rare occurrence). Drive a Viper, wear a gold Rolex, own the latest silly priced amplifier, and its existence is an implied brag. There are people that own the same products because they are interested in them and happen to be able to afford them, not because of what they represent (conspicuous consumption), and they sometimes get caught in the assumption that they own them for the usual reasons. They'll be accused of bragging even when they are not. Not fair, but then it is hard to distinguish between the types sometimes. Audio is similar to cars etc. in one way - if the person owns brand new gear it is more likely to be a brag, mentioning it, than if they own what was top of the line gear from twenty years ago - then they are just a canny shopper! |
"...now, get off the freeway, peasants! Her Highness is coming..." *smirk* Thanks. 'lizbeth....I think....*LOL* MHO, so far this has been the most 'restrained' and basically civil discussion on the subject at hand I've witnessed at AG. And thanks to y'all for striving to maintain that. We've all witnessed wayyy too many 'cat fights' over 'detail X' or 'item Y' that begin to remind one of Russian dashcam vids....*cringe* ;) I was once queried as to when a 'pleasant diversion' (once referred to as one's hobby, or the like...) begins to take on the aspects of a 'pursuit' that has all the markings of an obsession....for those of you that recognize me as one that has a 'marked tendency' towards one 'W item', this may be applicable, but that's for another forum(s)....*S* Most of the time, mine and yours, I 'lurk', hoping to glean the 'wheat' of a thread, and ignore/laugh/be mystified by the 'proceedings'. Occasionally, I hope to make an 'intelligent observation (and/or) comment'. Some are...some aren't. Oh, well. Nobody Knows Everything, and Nobody's Flawless. I'll apologize Now for the latter circumstances. I'll sometimes insert a wisecrack (see above) that strikes me as appropo. If you can't laugh at those arguing over details that neither can witness IRL at the other's space with their equipment with the same source material....then I'm not surprised by the current political/social climate, and I wish our species and planet luck. We'll need it. (Back to the irregularly timed program....*fade to gray*....) |
Thanks for all of your comments. I post discussions like this because I like to seriously discuss and find out about music and gear I haven’t heard. I also like to share gear from little known companies that compete with more expensive stuff. The more you spend I believe that it is diminishing returns. My group of audio friends went on a crazy gear trying journey for some years and I have had a blast. My current system has been steady and I really enjoy it. I share to encourage those trying to find their happy system place. I’m at a good spot. Enjoy and carry on! If you like I love it as mom used to say. |
| Post removed |
I'm all for sharing experiences and knowledge of all things audio online. In fact, forums like this are probably the best way to get impartial knowledge as we know what magazines are all about. Sure there are plenty of attempts to promote dubious products here, but then there are plenty of people prepared to reason against them. We all know who we are. The great thing about Audio is that for those who are in it for only sound quality something approaching state of the art / high-end is within financial reach of most of us. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-high-end-for-under-a-grand If, like many audio enthusiasts, you can accept that digital sources, amplifiers, cables all possess distortion levels below the threshold of hearing you can simply focus your attention and funds upon your loudspeakers where they should bring greater sonic reward. Unless of course you prefer headphone listening, but even then you needn't spend the earth to get excellent results as many owners will testify. The other exception is turntables, where even at $1000 you are still some distance off the state of the art. $2000 will get you close, very close. For those who want to, and can spend more, its purely a consumer choice and nothing to do with greater sound quality. The analogy with cars is a loose one, because there you can measure noise levels, comfort, BHP, torque, handling, acceleration, and a zillion other things. And let's also not forget status and what your vehicle says about you. For that very reason I'd think very carefully before deciding to buy a BMW. |