why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable
I have tried expensive cables and one's moderately priced. I would say there were some differences but I can't actually say the expensive cables were better. IMHO I believe a lot of people buy expensive cables because they don't actual trust their ears and are afraid of making a mistake. They figure the expensive cables are better for the fact they cost more. If you have a difference of opinion or share the same thoughts, I would like to hear about it.
Just wanted to add my 2 pence to this discussion. I must admit I have always been on the fence with this argument, believing, as most other do, that after a certain price point most cables are equal and that we just buy the look after said certain pric point. I attended the Bristol Audio show in the UK this year (have been a few years now) and purposely sat in on a speaker/interconnect demo being run by the Chord company, just to confirm my thoughts on my cables.
i wouldn’t say I was shocked but I would say I was surprised. There was most certainly ‘differences’ in how the cables sounded, with some providing more depth and detail in the music. (Things you couldn’t hear with one cable, but could hear in another).
Id say the demo lasted over 1 hr, the format was piece of music played for say 15 seconds with one cable. Then switched out with an ‘upgraded’ cable, then same piece played again. Totally open setup, all in view, with connectors showing (rear facing) . Very simple setup and no smoke or mirrors at play.
The main thing I picked up on was that most of the differencesi personaly heard we’re minor. I wouldn’t even they sound better or worse, just different, some I like some I didn’t. I think that is more the point, they just sounded different, to some they may say they sounded better, others worse.
The only major thing I took away from it all, and the only thing that in my opinion DID improve the sound reproduction/detail etc for the better was the use of shielded cables. That for me was the only thing I would now make sure my cables had as this and only this made a big enough difference to the sound that I could 1) actually hear it and 2) say it was a definite improvement.
they also demo’d new silver banana plugs and £3k meter cables all of which I couldn’t say made anything sound better or worse, just ‘different’, but hey, one mans different is another mans better.
melbguy1 - The usual reason audiophiles dismiss more expensive cables in a-b comparisons is because to be blunt, their systems aren’t capable of clearly revealing the differences.
IMO, the quoted statement is to generic in that there are different types of cables. Interconnects being one, speaker wire another. In the case of speaker wire, I have reason to believe honest (to themselves) audiophiles dismiss more expensive cables in a-b comparisons because, to be blunt, there is no audible difference that can reliably be detected, and therefore money that would otherwise have been spent can be saved.
This has nothing to do with Bose. Bose sounds like crap! There you make an assumption that I and others can’t get past the marketing crap. Most of us can! Look there are some of us that have never been exposed to truly high end systems that pull the last amount of depth, detail, soundstage and musicality out of music being played in a system. It’s called SYSTEM FOR A REASON! Each of our systems have been put together and tweaked to the last minute details. We have different rooms, acoustic enviorments, power cables, speakers, amps, pre amps, sources, interconnects, speaker cables, music, quality of recording of music we listen to etc, etc. it all plays a part in your ending sound. You will never hear my system in your enviorment! So I tell people if you can hear the difference and you like it go with it. IF IT SOUNDS GOOD THEN BUY IT! THIS IS NOT A LOW BAR. ITS THE ONLY BAR! AUDIO IS TO BE HEARD BY YOUR EAR. I DONT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT MARKETING OR HOW IT MEASURES ON SOME DAMN GRAPH. DOES IT SOUND GOOD TO YOU? THEN THE REST DOESNT MATTER. Now I have said my piece. If that Bose demo tricked you in the past I hope you can get over it. If you like chicken wire then keep it but don’t tell me I’m crazy cause I have a system that doesn’t like Chicken! Lol. Enjoy your electrodynamic spectrometer that Marvin the Martian used to shoot at bugs bunny! I will keep enjoying my modestly priced cables playing the music through my resolving system that I can actually hear!
Whoa! What?! A taters OP thread on expensive cables is going in circles? Or any thread on cables. The way it’s been going, any topic that’s more than 2 Sigma off the average knowledge of the Standard Audiophile Model. 😳
kosst_amojan "It’s audio if it sounds good to you buy it! Ah duh!"
That's pretty much why Bose has sold tons of junk.
I used to draw nude women. I'm pretty good at it. One of the things drawing lifelike nude women teaches you is how to study shapes and proportions. I realized the more nude women I drew, the less I liked what's typically called a sexy woman. I also realized that the interactions between light, curve, and proportion are where the beauty lies. It's a proven fact that people who practice creating visual art consume it in very different ways that those who don't. I find listening to be a similar practice. The more I listen, the more my tastes diversify and the more I listen to what my stereo is really doing. "Sounding good" isn't a standard I find myself ever using. "Sounding good" is an abstract conclusion drawn from the assessment of many factors. Are the hips wide enough, or not enough? Is the bass too round or too punchy? Are the breasts set wide enough apart, or too close? Is the soundstage too etched, or just hazy enough to be more convincing? Just like "sexy" is emergent quality of many factors, "sounding good" is as well.
d2girls, for balanced analog interconnects I and more than a few others here have had excellent results with Mogami Gold Studio, which btw is arguably the de facto cable of choice in pro applications.
All of the above are very modestly priced, but offer excellent value. Also, keep in mind that balanced interconnections in many cases tend to be less sensitive to cable differences than unbalanced interconnections.
Best of luck. -- Al
Edit: I composed this post before seeing Dave's just above. Great minds think alike :-)
D2girls...might I suggest a veteran source for free advice who also handles MIT cables online. Call Joe Abrams at Equus Audio. He has been in the high end industry for his entire life and can offer exceptional savings on all MIT cables. He has cables for sale on Audiogon as well. Enjoy
Do your research and DO NOT take recommendations from people who have already been swayed into spending too much money on exotic, overpriced, ineffective cables. Accessory interconnects can only, if at all, provide very subtle improvements to audio listening and they are certainly NOT worth the ridiculous premium prices.
Try to find, for example, any high end speaker manufacturer, who does not also manufacture interconnects, who will suggest that exotic, expensive are needed to enhance their speakers' performance.
Dynaquest14 sounds reasonable and has probably found himself content within his own means, meager as they may or may not be. My recommendations are based upon over 40 years of owning a very large portion of the gear many people talk about but have not owned. Many cables have entered my various systems over the years and although there may be some good values available, none have provided the startlingly dramatic improvements that MIT cables have provided....even the lower cost offerings are quite amazing at allowing your listening sessions to transport you to the actual event! I have put my money where my mouth is and have found that wire definitely is wire...MIT offers a musical experience far beyond just wire.
I have found very few speaker or electronics manufacturers who will recommend any particular cable, brand or model - probably cannot afford to offend any of their dealers that do not carry that brand. And it certainly would make sales tougher if customers were told they also had to buy expensive cables. Though most manufacturers seem to use expensive cables to demonstrate their gear at shows.
dynaquest4 "Do your research and DO NOT take recommendations from people who have already..."
It doesn't take much "research" to plainly, decisively, and emphatically reveal that you're comments, directions, and protestations are biased, uninformed, and propagandistic when people actually do the research that you suggest they will see this for them selfs.
It’s like I explained to my daughter, everything is a matter of choice. Like Dynaquest4, her sister’s boyfriend bought an expensive convertible sports car. I bought a normal car and an expensive stereo. Life’s choices are based on one’s priorities.
First of all, look at your system. I don't know anything about Schiit products, but I do know about your Pass and Harbeth pieces. They're very good! I hope that you are running balanced interconnects, Pass works better with them. Call John Pharo at The Cable Company and ask him about speaker cables. He's very knowledgeable and really nice. He can help guide you.
And theres the other half of me that says to just stick with what I've got...
Look at it this way, if you don't "save" $2,500 by spending $2,500 on $5,000 speaker cables, what would you spend the $2,500 on? My guess, probably something cooler than wire.
The used high end cable market is pretty stable, so if used cables don’t work out for any reason you should have no trouble recovering your money. If you pay full price for the latest and greatest, however, it’s kind if like buying a new car. It depreciates as soon as it leaves the dealer parking lot. Besides when you buy used the cables are already broken in. 😃 it’s kind of the same philosophy that has shut down many mom and pop high end stores, such as $30,000 amps. In bad economic times like these the savvy audiophile buys used. It’s not rocket science. 🚀
Get the best sounding stereo you can afford. It's perhaps one of the saner things you can do with your money. Get the best (read most comfortable, sleep inducing) bed you can afford. Give as much as you can to those organizations that promote the most public and environmental welfare.Treat yourself and other to the good things in life. Who knows how much longer we have? Enjoy it while it, you last.
No mater what side of the fence your on with cables looks has something to do with it as well.
why would I want some ugly lamp cord between your amps and speakers specially if you have substantial money invested.
regardless of how good something sounds if the component is homely to look at it will generally not stay long. Beauty is of course the eye of the beholder.
Likened to plain steel wheels on a Ferrari yeah they work but really don't look the part.
Geoff is definitely more than a few cards short of a deck 😝. He’s also wrong...a rich man can buy his audio indulgences over and over again until he accidentally enters Audio Nirvana! A poor man has fewer options and needs to get it right the first time...IOW, the deck is stacked against him or her or it or whatever is PC today. Of course Geoff would convince the poor guy his Bose would sound SOTA if only he would buy some of his audio trinkets and snake oil. Actually, that makes Geoff worse than a rich man. At least a rich man wants to have an honest chance at purchasing a slice of ANirvana, while Geoff lives off the poor, desperate wretches looking for a magic potion to convert their electronic grunge generators into heavenly sonic bliss! I can respect the rich man for his capitalistic purity. Geoff however, is far worse...for he sells empty dreams. Then again, perhaps that defines a free society afterall. Anyone should be able to pursue anything they want, no matter how foolish or baseless it may be. Carry on dear patriot...let not your conscience be bothered.
Elizabeth is obviously very emotional right now. You missed the tongue in cheek aspect of my post apparently? That being said, anyone should be able to pursue anything they please. I was simply riffing on the analogy GK mentioned. It was sarcastic humor with a thread of truth perhaps...certainly not a treatise or anything worth publishing. Relax, take a bubble bath and put on some Perry Como for goodness sake! Geeez
Whatever you may think of high end cables that cost more than most high end electronics or speakers, the cable manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank. Fool an audiophile once, shame on him. Fool him twice, shame on cable manufacturer. Fool him thrice, congratulations cable manufacturer.
I do not believe in the effectiveness of expensive, overpriced "wire." I recently priced out full stereo cable set up (minus power cables) of Nordhost's Odin line of cables. If I remember correctly, the retail cost was $137,000.00.
Yes....they target fools with too much money. Those who "can afford them" and don't have a clue, keep the scam alive.
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