Why are record cleaners so expensive?

I think we enlightened the OP. 
I would never pay $3k for a fishing rod or for a power cord or for a record cleaning machine. $10K for a semi-custom Brioni suit? Maybe, if I thought I needed such a high class suit. And I agree that $3k Fiji vacation would be too modest, I would add at least couple of thousands more.

About $500 will get you a decent record cleaner (such as the VPI or an Okki Nokki). Beyond that you're mostly paying for either added convenience or extra build quality.

Interesting discussion..

We each have different priorities in how we spend our disposable income, and none of the previously mentioned things are essential items, and of course any first-world consumer can vote with their wallet..

While I have to agree that Audio Desk and Klaudio ultrasonic record cleaning machines are overpriced at $3,000+ and would love to see more affordable equipment become available for half that, in the $1500 range, there are many other "expensive niche products" that are not likely to be found in every home in the developed world.

Music lovers who want the benefits of cleaning their records on Audio Desk and Klaudio machines can use an affordable record cleaning service like mine, Record Genie. Some of my customers just use my service to clean a few records before deciding which machine to buy, but I know others could never afford the expense of their own machine(s).

Both Audio Desk and Klaudio machines offer excellent results, and I’ve cleaned thousands of records for hundreds of happy customers all over the USA since 2013. It’s less than $3 per record for cleaning on one machine, and $5 for cleaning on both. Media Mail postage gets the records back and forth affordably, and I have special packaging to borrow for those who need it.

Those with large collections (if cleaning them all) will probably still want their own machine(s) for obvious cost and practical reasons, and others will object to sending records through the mail (even with special packaging), but if you live in the USA and want to experience the difference of playing records cleaned on the best ultrasonic machines available without breaking the bank, there really is no obstacle to doing so..

simao  " ...As for the suit, fly rod, and vacation - those are all objects or experiences custom made for one person only (or a couple, in the case of the latter) and not really suited for anyone else. That's a far cry from a mass-produced (relatively speaking) cleaning device. "

Sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Your $3000 hand-made fly-fishing rod is a production item, made from stock materials and finished to your spec. Your $3000 two weeks at a Fijian resort for two? For that kind of money, you're not using a private jet, but a commercial carrier. You'll sleep in a bed once used by others! You'll dine in restaurants that use standardized menus offered to nearly any other diner who enters. And that $3000 custom-made suit from an Italian mill? It's based on a pattern and modified to your specs.

Yes, the suit and fly rod will require a fair amount of hand labor, but they are still production items. The Audio Desk cleaner is also a production item. But that something can be produced in production quantities don't mean it's "mass-produced." For example, a Toyota Corolla is mass produced. A Lamborghini is not, but it's not custom, either. It's a production item.

It's apparent that the Audio Desk cleaner is not for you. No problem! You get to decide for yourself whether it represents good value, or not. Because you called it a "glorified vacuum cleaner" in your original post, it's pretty clear your mind was made up before the conversation here began.

If a power cord or a couple of rare records can cost $3k or more why can't an excellent record cleaner cost the same or less?
$3k for a great custom suit is not nearly enough, by the way. Try $8k - 10k. 
Having said that, I do think that $3k machine is overpriced, but so are many things.
Personally, $499 Okki Nokki with Audio Intelligent fluids is all I need. But it takes time and effort, that's not " push button " device.
Rich people employ different kind of mathematics, and from their point of view it sounds like a correct one.
I myself pay $500-$600 for a custom hand made knife from time to time, which would be considered madness by most people. I consider it inexpensive, some cost thousands.

Well, Sim, I'll take your question at face value.

First, an ultrasonic machine is not a glorified vacuum cleaner. Not remotely.

Second, sonic difference. I used to clean with a two wand method on a VPI. Now I clean at 80KHz and hear as big a difference as doubling the cost of a component. Many of us have a  $3,000 phono stage, or amp, or table, or speakers. Hence cleaning for $3,000 is perfectly viable on a strict cost/benefit analysis, on this measure alone.

Then there is the cost of a factory retip, about $3000 for mine. Since a recent study showed that the grunge in a record groove is one third diamond grit plus grease, which is a premium grinding compound, removing all of that grit should multiply the lifespan of a stylus. $3000 for record cleaning is a bargain on this measure alone.

Then there are the records. If you have 3000 records, it's only a dollar apiece. Even if you buy at garage sales, a dollar each is not significant, on this measure alone.

So there you have it. Out of reason? Not by my analysis.

Simao,
I also use the Spin-Clean, but I finish up with a KAB EV-1 to vacuum off the bath water. The EV-1 is basically the top portion of a Nitty Gritty record cleaner, and hooks up to your own vacuum cleaner. At $169, it's an economical alternative to the machines with a built-in vacuum.

I believe the results from this combination are better than using the EV-1 alone and WAY better than the Spin-Clean alone.

The price it takes to buy a used (or even new) VPI HW-16.5 will get you perhaps as good a record cleaner as you need. Far better than a Spin-Clean and far cheaper than an ultrasonic cleaner.

I got an early HW-17 on ebay for around 250.00

has it worked?  yes saved a number of records

has it paid itself off   not really :)

@whart Look, man, there was no antagonism implied or intended. Especially not if people are going to get bent out of shape over a question about a mechanical device.

"Most folks are allergic to hype, and I’m not going to tell you that veils were lifted or the orchestra was in the room. What I will tell you is that I’ve spent a fair amount of time and money messing around with various record cleaning methods, machines and techniques and not only have a lot of records, but some very valuable ones. I can get a record very clean using a basic VPI. But some records, particularly older records that have been exposed to who knows what, require multiple cleanings, and in my experience, multiple approaches. That’s where the combo of a couple different devices, including ultrasonic, starts to pay off."

There - that's what I was looking for in the first place - that and @mapman 's earlier take.

As for the suit, fly rod, and vacation - those are all objects or experiences custom made for one person only (or a couple, in the case of the latter) and not really suited for anyone else. That's a far cry from a mass-produced (relatively speaking) cleaning device.

I probably will invest in a VPI once my collection approaches a decent number.

Why are record cleaners so expensive?

Simple economics 101, Supply, Demand and Price.   

Perhaps the question, reframed, is "I have a modest record cleaning system (X and Y) that I’m happy with, but wonder if those expensive record cleaning machines are really that much better and worth the money?"
A little less antagonistic, particularly since you seem to acknowledge that one can spend money on handcrafted or bespoke items that have importance to the buyer.
Most folks are allergic to hype, and I’m not going to tell you that veils were lifted or the orchestra was in the room. What I will tell you is that I’ve spent a fair amount of time and money messing around with various record cleaning methods, machines and techniques and not only have a lot of records, but some very valuable ones. I can get a record very clean using a basic VPI. But some records, particularly older records that have been exposed to who knows what, require multiple cleanings, and in my experience, multiple approaches. That’s where the combo of a couple different devices, including ultrasonic, starts to pay off.
If you don’t think it’s silly to spend money on a suit, a fishing rod or a vacation, why would you think it’s crazy to spend 3 grand on an RCM? (which, as noted, you don’t have to do if you are willing to go the semi-DIY route).

My Spin Clean also beeps when a record is done, and I have no idea where the beep is coming from…weird...

@cleeds To each his own. Thank you for clarifying some of the economical and mechanical reasons behind my original question.

And yes, as you condescendingly point out, when "that little holiday is over" all I'll have is "photos and memories." However, I find those to be worth far more than any material item I've ever had.

@mapman You put things in perspective - as you usually do.

I wonder if anyone buys the really good ultrasonic machines and then starts a record cleaning service. Assuming the devices are durable and have low maintenance over time if used heavily.

I mostly buy used vinyl these days and I only clean dirty records thoroughly once. Once properly cleaned, all I do is use a carbon fibre brush to quickly remove any newly settled dust before playing. A record cleaning service is something I might be interested in using.

When you call the Audio Desk a "glorified vacuum cleaner" and say, "paying three grand for an Audio Desk cleaner seems a bit out of reason," it rather does sound as though you're complaining, even as you say you're not.

Vacuum cleaners are common appliances that are mass produced at low cost. The Audio Desk is obviously built in limited quantities, if only because the market for such a device is small. It uses ultrasonic cleaning, something no ordinary vacuum cleaner does. It has a filter for the cleaning fluid, motors to rotate the cleaning pads, motors to dry the disk and electronics to control the various functions. In addition to the materials cost, the manufacturer has to make enough on the product to recoup the design and engineering costs; pay for shipping, advertising and promotion; and make enough profit to warrant the endeavor, fund future improvements and honor its warranties. And of course the dealer must make a profit, too.

Compared to the price of a good turntable playback system - which must also include a pickup arm, cartridge and phono preamp - it's really not that expensive. And of course at least some of its users consider their records to be priceless, further justifying the cost.

The high end of audio is filled with products whose value would be dubious to the uninitiated. You might prefer "two weeks at a Fijian resort for two," but when that little holiday is over, you'll have nothing to show for it but perhaps some photos and memories. You also mentioned a "custom-made suit from an Italian mill" as an alternative. That seems like very poor value to me, compared to the Audio Desk, but everyone has to decide for himself.

A grand is certainly better than most I see. :^).

For someone interested in building a big vinyl colelction these days its not a bad investment.  $3000 maybe not bad as well if called for.

 New records typically go for $30 and up. BUy 30 or so and you have a grand. Assume those come clean and do not need much if any cleaning if taken care of properly.

Now you can save a lot of money buying used vinyl for much less, sometime just a dollar or two, maybe less, but often these require a very thorough initial cleaning. You might be able to buy 1000 or more records for that grand and then clean them and have them like new and maybe even better sounding than new vinyl in many cases. 1000 records at $30 each would cost $30000 in comparison. So you saved $29000. Not bad. I suppose these are teh kinds of scenarios to consider to justify the investment.

I do have a very effective manual cleaning process I use that costs next to nothing per record, but it is time consuming and a pain to execute properly, though not too hard with some experience.

Thank you, @hodu . I wasn't complaining at all but merely saying that in terms of vinyl cleaners, I had a very basic one and wanted to know what separated it from a $3K one.

And, @whart  and @cleeds , I'm not complaining about anything. I'm simply curious as to the construction and machinations of expensive vinyl cleaners that warranted their cost. Still, even if I had $3K to drop on a vinyl cleaner, I doubt I'd do it unless, as @ebm pointed out, I had a substantial investment in lp's.

It's all relative, though, as can be said about any purchase/value.

Map, I think you can get in for about a grand, if you use one of those kits and a generic US bath. Still too much?

I wish someone would come up with an affordable and effective automatic ultrasonic cleaner.    The ones I see available to-date are just way to expensive for most.

"But you can't compare the Audio Desk to your Spin-Clean device. Apples/oranges."

He wasn't comparing the two. He was posing a not uninteresting question, and merely noted what he uses to clean his records.

-- Howard

A custom-made fly fishing rod would mean little to me, but I understand that, for the avid fisherman, it may be desirable. So too, with those of us who have lots of records-in my case, accumulated over the course of almost 50 years. I started with a basic VPI in the early ’80s. I have owned several of the fancy, expensive machines and still use two constantly, in combination. Why are they expensive? I guess, for the Audio Desk, the developer had to recoup his development costs and make a profit. It’s far more than a glorified vacuum cleaner. The KL is simpler, but overbuilt. The Monks- it’s a sort of Rube Goldberg affair of tubes, jars, outside vendor supplied pump, various motors, housed in a case with some fabrication cost involved. (Monks is now introducing an even cheaper cleaner than their Discovery machine, which adapted a commercial turntable into a cleaning machine to reach a broader market). The Loricraft is very similar in design and operation. 
If all you need is a basic vacuum system, there are plenty of semi-DIY kits that permit you to add a small shop vac. If you are after ultrasonic, and want to do it without full automation, there are semi-DIY kits that add a rotisserie to a generic ultrasonic bath, and get you there for far less than a commercial machine.
Not sure what your complaint is-- there are plenty of alternatives. My sense is, the ’push one button’ ultrasonics designed for vinyl cleaning are not just about effective cleaning (though I still use them in combination with vacuum cleaning), but about convenience. When I first got one, I was overjoyed at the thought that I didn’t have to do any work, just pop a record in, and come back when it’s done. That alone has value to many audiophiles who find cleaning records a tiresome, noisy exercise that takes (limited) time away from listening.

bcoz vinyl is now VERY popular. 

Had VPI 17F then got KL AUDIO KD CLN-LP200 much better records sound quieter and are cleaner.Just put in record set washing and drying time machine beeps when record is finished.The machine is very well made and worth it to me i have over 5 thousand LPS some are worth over  1K.

simao

  " ... paying three grand for an Audio Desk cleaner seems a bit out of reason."

Then don't buy one. But you can't compare the Audio Desk to your Spin-Clean device. Apples/oranges.

 

i had a vpi forever and see them used for around 300-500 ...