Who has Luv for the Lyngdorf 2170 and is thinking about the 3400.

The none-existant noise floor is so striking, isn't it? It's just black. It adds so much to the dynamics, the feel of speed and separation of all the recorded compontents/instruments. It feels like they show up out of nowhere and are locked into position. I continue to play things I've listened to for years and they sound like a new hi-res recording of the song.

Damn you, KDude...this thread is making me want to spring for the Lyngdorf -- that I almost bought last year. But I continue to worry about how the inevitable file changes (e.q. MQA) would be handled or not. Components have always won with me because they require selective upgrading.
Also, had the experience with Class D amps not providing the kind of realistic tone weight necessary to nail acoustic instruments perfectly -- the cello is a good instrument to check. Can any of you pundits share your Lyngdorf experience here? KLH007 has stated that the Lyngdorf is not Class D but it seems a slightly improved variant to me after reading the description cited above.
And what's next, KDude? A thread on your new Lawrence Audio DB speakers? We'll all have to sell our Porsches...

craigl59,
No not going to start a thread on the db’s,there’s only 4to5 pairs that have been shipped to America.Lawrence mostly sales and markets to Europe and Asia.

I sent you a pm,
Kenny.

The tonality is spot on with the 2170. Never thin or lightweight ...... sounding  ....... Never. It is slightly warm with excellent bloom and meat on the bones. After room correction everything just falls into place and you never will think about amps, dacs, and preamps anymore. Once dialed in with a Room Correction and proper burn in all is unfussy bliss.  😁

Perhaps  you can trial one with some hours on it from a dealer. 

Gentlemen,

”The tonality is spot on with the 2170. Never thin or lightweight ...... sounding  ....... Never. It is slightly warm with excellent bloom and meat on the bones. After room correction everything just falls into place and you never will think about amps, dacs, and preamps anymore. Once dialed in with a Room Correction and proper burn in all is unfussy bliss. ”

I couldn’t really put it into words any better than this,and
If you are Listening to a quality recording that has good quality “Instrumental” tonal weight the 2170 will convey it in a very realistic way.

Kenny.

Thanks KDude and Grannyring. And thanks again for the phone call/information Kenny. Always enjoy your helpful specifics.

For those interested Youtube has a 4 part interview with the man himself Peter Lyngdorf...enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycoy_0oBPrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no_WDGB03Rs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKwW5BT32rs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwMOUFxhYMo&t=38s

Remember the 2170 is not an Amplifier it is a system with amp, preamp, dac, and room correction in one box.  The price per watt for this system is staggeringly low based on the SQ. You won’t need those ICs and power cords anymore.  Ad up the cost of separates including a dac, preamp, Power amp and all the cabling needed for those separates and the 2170 is super affordable.  

Question.

Is the internal 2170 DAC, MQA capable?
Can I send the MQA signal from my Vault 2 over via analog outputs and get full 24/192.
ATM I am sending via Digital and it is limited to 24/96

Thank you

Uberwaltz,

I send MQA through my Auralic Aries, but the signal is converted to 24/96 through the Lyngdorf. Sounds good stil.

I believe no matter what you send to the 2170, it ends up being 24/96, ie. 320kps MP3, DSD, FLAC, etc..same goes with all analog sources.

Once thee 24/96 conversion takes place, it then goes to the PWM and outputs at 32/384.  I read that on some review, but who knows how much truth there is to the exact specs.  I will try to find the link..

I do think the better quality you send, the better outcome.

Maybe someone else can chime in, and correct me if I’m mistaken

https://hometheaterreview.com/lyngdorf-audio-tdai-2170-integrated-amplifier-reviewed/

That's part of it.

Robert
So it sounds like it is pretty much irrelevant whether I send it 24/96 or 24/192 then so I think I will not worry about it further!

Uberwaltz,

Reading  back, I didn't directly answer your question.  Sorry.  Yes, I wouldn't worry about it, but you can always try both ways and see what sounds best.

I'm curious to hear your findings.

However, now just playing around with Roon's DSP engine.  When I convert a normal Tidal album (non-MQA) to DSD 128, it definitely produces a different sound.  Even though the 2170 converts to PWM before the final output regardless of format/rate.

I'm a beginner with all this tech stuff, so still hoping someone else will chime in

Me too
One reason why I went with the Bluesound Vault 2 so I would not have to deal with "real" computer audio.
I needed my system to be completely idiot proof, so my wife and daughter could operate it just by pushing a couple of buttons on a remote and a few swipes of the Bluos app on the iPad!

Robert
No doubt about it, the digital Output from the Vault is considerably better than the analog output.
Both read 96k on the info but its not even close in sq.
The analog version sounds like the top frequency regions have been severely truncated. Sounds lifeless and flat and uninspiring.
That I think is more a reflection of the mediocre Vault DAC than the analog inputs of the 2170.

Uberwaltz,

I had the same results testing one of my CD players, using it’s analog out (built in DAC) and using it as a transport via coax.

Coax was clearly better.

I think one of the many advantages & basically whole point of t he 2170 is not having to use an external DAC. Unless of course you have a streamer or CD player that doesn’t have a digital out.

So I guess that kind of answers one of my questions from earlier - if everything is resampled by the 2170 (PWM) right before output - it still makes an audible difference what you feed it, in regards to source/quality.

That makes sense to me, but I’m not sure I understand why..

phew..

The 2170 analog input from my turntable sounds better than even a LTA system I sampled for a while. That surprised me. But that told me the 2170s analog capabilities are very good but any DAC to 2170 Analog path doesn't sound as good. The only way I can resolve this is to believe the external DACs I've used aren't as good as the 2170s capabilities or something else is compromising the analog signal from the digital sources. But let me tell you, the signal path from my Thorens TD-165, Hana SL, Whest Two.2 sounds really good. So I've always considered the processing upstream of the analog input to be the problem, not the analog path within the 2170. I, in fact, heard similar high-end resolution problems with digital inputs from some devices from SOtM and Uptone. The 2170 really reflects what is upstream of it with both analog and digital inputs.

Without writing a huge highly technical novel,
I can say that without question,the better you feed the 2170 upstream of it’s analog or digital inputs the better it will respond.
Always keep in mind that the conversion to PWM is actually a simple non destructive conversion and Lyngdorf’s Implementation is simply brilliant and works extremely well.

Also remember the 2170 does the final clocking to the digital signal,
and even though I’ve experimented with lots of combinations I don’t stress about it.

I simply enjoy it for what it does,and it does it’s thing quite well for sure,and I don’t worry thinking I’m missing anything.

I’ve owned mine for 7 months now,and I don’t even look at or think about any other amps or dac’s.

Enjoy,
Kenny.

I would like some advice please.  I have a 2170 and like it very much, I run RoomPerfect but have not made any adjustments to the filters.  My mains are Harbeth C7ES-3's and a REL single sub.  Where should I place the filter cutoff and what kind of filter should I use? Should I set the filters before I run RoomPerfect? Thank you.

Yes you should adjust the filters and then re run. I would set the crossover as low as your speakers can play safely and sound good at full volume you listen to. Maybe 70hz? Just a guess. 

Kissov356,

For your setup use the Butterworth filter for both high pass/low pass.  Cutoff - is up to what sounds best to you.  I usually start at 80hz and work down from there, if needed.

Good luck.

Bullit
I completely agree that the direct analog in from a pure analog source, my Gold Note PH-10 phono stage sounds truly magical.
It was just the analog in from the Vault 2 DAC that left a lot to be desired.
The way the 2170 processes digital signals is something special for sure

Typically I’m not someone who posts about new audio items as most have a love affair with any new piece of audio equipment but I was a longstanding 2170 owner and my 3400 showed up today(Big thank you to Tony Barnette at Ellington Hifi for somehow getting me a unit when they are seriously backed up on orders). I was using my 2170 in a mixed use 2.2 channel theater and audio setup and really loved the functionality and sonics. 
   Just opening the 3400 I wanted to post about what extras you get. I think most people know there is a streamer (haven’t used yet) but some not so obvious upgrades includes both rca and xlr outputs which is great for my subs. While on the subject of subs the 2170 blended them totally seamlessly and simply and I’m sure the 3400 will be the same. There is an aes/ebu input which is perfect for my Aurender N10. There are headphone inputs as well, the remote is a step up and more ergonomically set up for right handed use. What’s really cool is the Lyngdorf app allows total control of the 3400 so no remote needed. USB module is standard as opposed to an upgrade and the display is bigger and easier to read at a distance. I’m sure I’m missing a bunch but wanted to touch on those differences for those choosing between them. Too early to compare sonics between the 2 units but even after a few hours the 3400 sounds eerily similar to the 2170 but it has better control of my Vandersteens. Honestly, this is a piece worth getting excited over.

schw06,
Glad to read your first impression of the new 3400,Please let us know more as you have more time with it.

Enjoy,
Kenny.

I was watching a movie last night for the first time with the 2170 at the helm. Talk about crystal clear dialog. It’s so real and balanced it’s unreal. With my old setup I would always have the remote in hand ready to lower and raise volume between talking and action scenes. This thing just gives the perfect balance, can hear everything. 
Truly impressed on every level. 

I thoroughly enjoyed watching action movies through the action movie voicing on the 2170. Elevates the experience even closer to feeling like you're at the theater.

Good to know. I’ll have to try that. I haven’t messed with any of the voicing at all so far. 

Schwo6,

Which Vandersteens' are you using with the 3400?  Please comment more as you break in the Lyngdorf as I'm sure, many of us are interested.  Thanks,

I’m using the Vandersteen Treo CT’s. I don’t want to make any premature comments on sonics until everything has 2-3 weeks of burn in and settle time but will do it for sure. 
David

I also have the Treo CT's, and will be anxiously awaiting your comments as to their compatibility.  Thanks,

Don

A random thought on why the % correction goes up when speakers are placed against a wall.  Most speakers are designed to perform flat when in room.  Putting them against the wall will lift the bass and some mid-bass some 3 to 6 dB.  RP is simply reporting the fact it has to do more correction because you are not using the speakers the way the designer intended.

I agree with that if you are using most modern designs but several vintage speakers were designed to be placed close to the wall behind them and that would include Cornwall’s that I experimented with in a very small room.

I believe your correct that most speakers will lift the bass and some mid bass some 3 to 6 db and most definitely would require tremendously more RP correction.Those Cornwall’s required almost 50% correction in that small room but totally transformed their sound to actually something I would call listenable and good but certainly not great.

From my experience with the 2170,I like to optimize my system in every way possible,especially speaker position,before I run a RP setup.

Kenny.

Is it possible that when the speakers are closer to the wall, that though the room correction might be increased, it might be done in such a manner that actual amplifier power output is decreased?

unsound,
Yes to some small degree some pwr will be saved from less bass response needed theoretically.

I don’t worry about it the 2170 has plenty of pwr for me,with no signs of straining at the levels I normally listen too.

Kenny.

Curious if anyone has used a re clocker from their streaming device to the 2170. For example a Wyred 4 Sound Remedy with Bluesound as the streamer? 

My room is terrible acousticaly, one reason why I bought the 2170 and likely why I end up with high 37% room correction, it really is working to give me great sound

@mofojo

I was using a Wyred4Sound Recovery (similar to the Remedy, but for USB) between my Auralic Aries Mini and the 2170. Slight increase in bass, and soundstage, but vocals became considerable more clear. Highly recommended.

I just recently replaced the Aries Mini with an Aries (dual Femto clock) and the sound was identical to the above combo. I haven’t tried adding the Recovery to this new setup yet, but I should add it to the chain and see if any further SQ is achieved.

Curious if anyone has used a re clocker from their streaming device to the 2170.

I am. I'm using the iFI Micro 3.0 USB. I tried several other solutions but liked the iFI solution the best. There is an earlier post in this threads with things I put between my Music Server and the Lyngdorf searching for the best solution for me. I am still working to improve the digital stream. There is a LOT that can be done to improve what the Lyngdorf sees and responds to as far as the digital input. At least, that's what my experience is. And you have to experiment. More expensive doesn't mean better sound necessarily.

I may try one of the Remedy’s. My Node 2 doesn’t have USB out and I would like to stay away from computer for convienience. I have a VLink 192 between the Mac Mini and the Lyngdorf for when I want to play stuff off my hard drive. Seems to make a difference for the better. 

Ditto on the iFi Micro USB 3.  Power it with a nice LPS and the improvement in sound is stunning.  

Just wanted to let everyone know, that while the 2170 is the best component I have ever owned. I did have to send it off to Denmark today to be fixed. Its appears I have 2 or 3 possible issues. Nothing that made the Amp inoperable, but I feel these issues needed to be taken care of. Too bad no one in the US could have repaired it.

I know, these are electronics and stuff happens, but this amp was not cheap...at least for me. The first thing that is wrong is the volume knob is defective. When I use it to set my volume it gets stuck between 2 volume numbers. (i.e. 35.0/35.1) Now while I use that knob maybe 0.00001% of the time, I want everything in the unit to be 100% functional. The concerning part is why does a part of the unit that I rarely use die in just less than a year?? Don’t know to be honest. Stuff happens...I get it.

The other minor things I am sending it in for, loose RCA jacks on the back for OUTPUT and I feel the display does not look right sometimes. What I mean is that the text sometimes looks scrambled.

So anyway, just thought I would share with 2170 owners this info. Also, I would like to say Lyngdorf customer care has been excellent to deal with. Very responsive and quick to supply shipping label and instructions.
No music for me for about 2 weeks or so...ugh :(

My 2170’s display gets hard to read the deeper one goes into the menu screens. It is getting worse so I decided to email Lyngdorf last week. Thus far no response from customer service. I just sent another email and we will see. My unit is no longer under warranty and I stated that. Since they don’t have a US authorized repair facility I am sure my unit would have to go to Denmark on my dime.

Not excited about shipping it and would rather have them send me a new display board to install myself. Don’t know if they will do that as I have not heard from them on my issue.

I suppose future buyers should be aware that there is no US authorized repair facility. That may be a no go from some and that is reasonable.

I hope customer service gets back to me. When they do I will update all.

@aniwolfe , I experienced the former problem; could adjust the volume with the remote, but not on the 2170. It alternated between two numbers when spinning the volume wheel. This was straight out of the box so I went through the store where I had purchased the unit. It ended up being shipped back to Denmark to be fixed. So I feel some of your waiting/no music pain.

I did read on avforums.com ’Lyngdorf discussion thread’ that someone else had the same issue and had been in contact with Lyngdorf. They notified him/her that it was a known issue. This was sometime around November of last year, so hopefully it is resolved or will be resolved soon.

The Lyndgorf 2170 is only my second integrated amp (no plans on upgrading in the near future). So, not much experience. I highly considered scraping the 2170 and going in a different path after the volume issue. I didn’t consider it a cheap amp either. The problem was that I so enjoyed the silent background, RoomPerfect and overall smooth sound that I decided to give it a second try and haven’t looked back.

Anyway, best of luck to you!

This is troubling.  I'm about to order the 3400 (waiting for a final trade-in value toward it) and this is the first I've heard about reliability issues with Lyngdorf.  Also didn't know there was no US repair options.

I once owned another Danish integrated that had issues; for the last problem I had to send it to Denmark which was quite expensive.  I've been leery of foreign components because of that, but all the praise for the 2170 / 3400 made me curious and tempted.

Definitely not what I wanted to hear!
Tbh I had never even touched the volume knob until I read that post, fortunately I see no issues.
However for $4k I better get a hell of a lot more than a year or so trouble free operation.

Is Lyngdorf offering a trade in for the 2170 to the 3400 or is that something your dealer is offering @mrppv ?

Looks like the 2170 has had some issues with the relay that is on the volume control that effects manual operation but works just fine with remote.
My 2170 is almost 10 months old and I haven’t had any trouble luckily,I don’t know if my relay is a different and or better part than some earlier ones.

Most gear is built to a particular price point and most of the time the manufacturers use some cheaper parts in some areas and spend more of their overall parts budgets other places.

I will have to look at my relay and see exactly what it is,but I think if mine goes bad I will replace it myself and find a better relay if possible.

The 3400 Probably has some better parts than the 2170 adressing some of their known issues.

Kenny.

@bullitt5094 - I'm trading in a different component (not a Lyngdorf product) toward the purchase price.  Some dealers will do that.

OK. If Lyngdorf was offering a trade-in, that was going to change my 3400 thought process.
Kdude, figure that relay thing out will you! If I have to send mine back to Lyngdorf for repair, I'm going to have to buy another one for backup service! I'll have withdrawal symptoms if I have to go two weeks. Or maybe buy an LTA piece just to have tube capability from time to time. But that is also complicated by the need for an external DAC to feed the LTA. Oh bother...

Agreed! So true.