Who has Luv for the Lyngdorf 2170 and is thinking about the 3400.
Hello All, I’m coming up on 40 yrs in this hobby,and or obsession of ours,and I started with a pair of Khorns and Macintosh at the age of 12 and Offcourse owned a ton of different gear over the yrs. I bought a 2170 a little more than 6 months ago and I enjoyed it so much that I quickly realized I don’t really need anything else,solid state,tubes,or even dac’s anymore.I could step off that silly merry go round of amplification and just enjoy music.I was able to utilize the extra money and time and put together a really great sounding network audio system that rivaled the best in analog that I have ever had,I was mainly a analog guy all of these yrs but finally gave it up,I even sold my longtime record collection of 3k records which included many Hot Stampers that I purchased and also several that I found on my own.
So who Luv’s the 2170 and is maybe also thinking about the new 3400.
I reached out to Lyngdorf on speaker placement. They recommend that you place subs in the corners only if you have 2 subs. They do not recommend placing the main speakers in the corner. I did not ask about placing the main speakers against the wall but I have seen that some customers on avforums are doing this. There is a fairly active Lyngdorf thread there.
i have open baffle Spatial Audio M3 Triodes so do not place them against the wall. Like you, I place them where they sound best and then run RP.
Kenny,
Congats on the Double Bass speakers. They look fantastic and I am sure they sound the same.
Kenny Yes I have loved the looks of the vast majority of the Lawrence line of speakers ever since I first cast eyes on a pair of Violins. So glad you are happy with them and that they seem to work well with the 2170.
Old pair of Wilson Witt mk1. Had to fit new tweeters, new mids and new crossover resistors from when i bought them as used and very abused specimens! Probably would have been better off spending more up front on a pristine pair. However I have to say since fixing them I have been relatively happy. Always had too much boomy bass in my room no matter the speakers but the 2170 has cured that. Now it is deep controlled solid bass, the sort you feel when its wound up some!
@kdude66 You are wrong. According to manual, 2170 only accepts DSD up to 128. Now, after receiving my 2170, I can confirm that if I upsample anything over DSD 128, it doesn't play any music, nada.
I'm not complaining though. The sound is sublime. Early impression is VERY VERY good.
Uberwaltz, Yes for some strange reason Lyngdorf does recommend putting your speakers right on the wall,but to avoid any corners.
I don’t agree with this but I have tried it in the past as a experiment, the percent amount of correction needed will go way up,like in the 40’s or higher and the Lyngdorf will correct this,but your soundstage depth will narrow considerably and to my ears,the tone,timbre,and the aliveness or Immediacy of the music will not sound correct.It will sound artificial.
I think that they promote this just as a saleing feature of their product for modern homes that people don’t want speakers sticking out.Most people don’t have a dedicated listening room so their room is comprised some way or another.
I paired my 2170 with a pair of vintage Cornwall’s at a friends house,the room only 8x10 or 11 with those speakers right on the wall and the listening position only about 6 ft away.They needed 50% correction but that darn Lyngdorf totally transformed the sound to something I would classify as good but not great.
Basically you want to optimize everything in your system the very best that you can before running RP.
I get a few questions asking about the mic position when you are doing the focus position,which is the first mic position that you do. I carefully measure the best that I can exactly where my nose is when I’m seated in my listening chair and I duplicate those measurements for the mic placement.Basically will place the mic centered between your ears.
If you guys didn’t know,after rp is set up you can add and store different focus positions.And once added you can select the different ones which is great for experimenting.You can also add and store a second set of speakers which will be selectable.I use this feature if I take the 2170 to someone else’s home to try in their system.Kinda cool huh.
radiohead, No I’m not wrong.I know the manual says only Dsd 128,but I have upsampled to dsd 256 or 512 via Roon and or HQ player and stream via Ethernet in my local network to my Sotm ultra 200 endpoint,which Offcourse is a Usb renderer and then Usb to the Lyngdorf.
Works for me all day everyday,I prefer pcm 32/384 So that’s what I use mostly for everything that I play.
I’m looking to add headphone amp with my Lyngdorf 2170. What are all of you using?
I have a Audioquest Dragonfly Black that I use with my phone, but looking for something to integrate with my whole system. Guessing it needs to be an amp/dac combo to take in coax out from the digital out of the 2170.
Robert You can use the digital out OR the analog single ended out, either work well and you can set the volume level of each for matching to a headphone amp. I use a Burson headphone amp that has analog inputs and digital coax inputs ( usb too but I do not use that). I actually found the analog inputs to be better on the Burson. One nice thing on the 2170 is you can set the type of output, full range, headphone, tape out etc.
I may have figured out why in my system with the 2170 that I can stream dsd 256 or 512 into the Lyngdorf via USB.Even though I know they say the limit is 128.I can do this with either Roons upsample engine or HQ player,and the difference maybe that I don’t install Lyngdorf’s plugin on my computer’s,I have 3 total,but I’m only currently using my latest one.
More experience with trial and error may be needed,As I’ve said before I mainly prefer 32/384 pcm the best even with the handful of Dsd recordings that are 64 or 128 that I own.
Anyway it’s all about the sound and this is a minor thing IMO.
Wow! I am blown away. It has changed my entire notion of my audiophile journey and preconceptions: tubes, a sweet spot, separate components, speaker positioning -- they all seem so unnecessary.
All that audiophilia bugs itching all the time. All gone. Just get a Lyngdorf and keep listening to the music from (gasp!) any part of your room.
It was too good, beat my 300b system in every single way except the sweet midrange on my favorite Mingus tune (goodbye pork pie hat).
Think I will be selling my tubey-stuff and placing an order for a 3400 soon.
Enjoy the new journey. I am basically done now apart from tweaks and upgrades to my vinyl , new phono stage ordered this morning for example. But I am off the amp, speakers, cables etc merry go round for now.
I just have to ask the question as to why folks would want to spend more on the 3400 When most of us don’t need that much power? Often times the more powerful version of the same brand amplifier does not sound as good as the lower power version. I actually had an opportunity to trial the Lyngdorf 2400 amplifier and actually preferred the sound of my 2170. 2400 had more control of my speakers and my music had more authority if you will. However in the end it just did not sound as good as the 2170. The 2170 has a certain musicality that 2400 just did not match.
It may well be the 3400 sounds better than a 2170 but none of us really know. I do know often times more watts comes at a sonic expense. Food for thought.
It looks like the 3400 also has built in media player and ability to tailor the room perfect curves rather than just a set of presets. Maybe that is part of the appeal?
I know for sure I will wait until I hear some good solid reviews before stumping up near 7k.
I have a 2170 on order as of an hour ago. I hope it’s as good as some of you guys say it is😀. Pretty excited to sell everything off and have a single box.
I use Roon with the 2170 perfectly. Love Roon with Tidal. Great combo for sure. I understand the newer features are wonderful. Hope the more powerful unit is as musical.
Great! Please remember that the unit does not sound it’s best until being on 12 hours. I leave mine fully on, not in standby. The mids and overal tone improve noticeably. This is not a small point and one owners should be aware of.
There are also other ways to get more of that 300 tube magic and I would be happy to help. One involves a mod/upgrade I did to my unit and choice of cabling also Impacts tone and mids.
I, like you, rid myself of all manner of tube gear, cords, and hassle.
@grannyring Please share what are the ways 2170 can be improved. Mine goes to standby mode when there's no signal playing for some time. How do I prevent that?
@kdude66 Interesting. What USB driver are you using that allows you to stream DSD 512? I'm extremely curious. My system sounds significantly better with DSD upsample, with higher rates the better. Your feedback will be helpful.
I use Pure Audio Project Horn1 speaker. They truly excellent speakers. I use them in my living room of 15'x12'. Its funny how the open baffle horn interact with my living space. Previously my room was heavily treated, corner bass traps, absorber on first and second reflection point, monster bass trap at the back wall and what not. However, since using the PAP open baffle, I had to reduce the sound treatment significantly to make the speaker sound better. It's surprising how it's 2x15" woofer each channel integrate so well in a small room.
What is puzzling is that, after I installed 2170 and took enough measurement to have RP 100%, I do not notice a significant different with or without room perfect. Any idea why that could be? I took 11 measurement (3 additional ones after receiving 100% RP). Also, there's 5' opening into hallway at the back of left channel. I took a measurement of that space too. Is that desirable?
Funny thing is, even though I do not notice a drastica difference between having RP on or off, the sound quality regardless is superb; I mean really really good.
I really don’t want to do so on this thread. The unit sounds amazing without it. I don’t want to derail it. It is only for folks who are willing to nullify the warranty, spend at least $300 - $500, and have advanced skills. It requires taking apart the unit to access the back of the circuit board and then desoldering parts and resoldering new parts that are very big for the space. Advanced skills are a must or the unit will be ruined in quick fashion.
You can go into the 2170 settings and turn off the auto standby mode.
My wire of choice for this unit includes the Phasure Lush USB, my own DIY USB, and a musical power cord such as one made with Furutech FP-SO22N Nano AuAg 14 AWG Power Cable and high quality connectors.
Make sure RoomPerfect is on Neutral/ Focus all the time. I have sometimes had RP on Bypass (off) or had RP on Global by mistake. Not nearly as good sounding as Focus.
What room correction % did you have? The % readings is in the settings somewhere.
I originally had Dipoles speaker with sealed bass module, which didn’t need much room correction..about 9% Then I got regular cone driven floorstanders and I got about 18% room correction.
@grannyring Totally understand your reticence to post exact details here when it is deeply involved and a warranty voiding matter. Not sure as I personally want to or need to get that deep into it.....yet.
@aniwolfe Yes, I've made sure to have RP on focus all the time. May be I should take another measurement. I had no idea that dipole/open baffle are such room friendly speakers. Goes to show that when you remove that box, how uncolored and less boomy the bass becomes.
And interesting, I didn't know that you can check how much room correction it is using. I'll check and report back.
@grannyring I've my 2170 hooked up to a equi=core 1800 conditioner. I'm using HiDiamond USB cable and TWL power cord. Do you recommend I use a different conditioner or something like a PS Audio power regenerator in addition to equi=core?
In the next few days my dealer will send me a copy of the 3400 owners manual and within a month I probably will be able to borrow one.Then I will be able to directly compare to to the 2170.
I see I’m missing some good posts here, It’s kinda hard to type when I’m in a state of musical bliss,with many files queued up in Roon and my eyes closed.
Stick with the equicore 1800 for sure! Massive improvement when i bought mine. I use mine with my own power cords and I have everything plugged into the equicore
@radiohead99 - Definitely going with either the Equicore 1800 or Equi-Tech Son of Q for my TDAI 3400 when it arrives. I'm auditioning the Equi-Tech already in my old system which arrived yesterday. I also have a pair of Equicore 1800 coming and the new Equicore DeepCore on order too, but that's a few weeks away from shipping since it's in late beta still. I'll compare them all and report back.
The also use a Core Power Tech conditioner. Remember the 2170 only pulls perhaps 20-30 watts when operating. I use mine with a CPT Equicore 150. All that is needed. The 1800 is a great unit! @radiohead99 you have all you need and more 😊
The new 3400 is likely to pull more, but still very little relative to other amps and separates.
Here is something for 2170 owners to try it will cost about 250 bucks but I think is a great audio deal. Go to Allo.com order a Digione which is a ethernet end point get an iFi 5V wallwort as an upgrade from Amazon. Go to Ropiee website and get ther Roon software install on the Digione. The Digione output is SPDIF get a reasonable cable, coax 75 ohm (it make a diff) connect to the 2170 by the coaxial input and enjoy Roon and Tidal. The sound is amazing for the cost. A lot lower jitter form SPDIF as compared to USB. Sympatico with the Lyngdorf. Enjoy.
Kdud66, I believe Lyngdorf recommendation to place speakers directly against the back wall is more than a nod to decorating. By placing the speakers as such, the direct sound and the most immediate reflected sound will be similar. Otherwise, the first sound that the ear recognizes if placed typically out from the back wall will have been unnecessarily and consequently unnaturaly corrected as though it was a reverberant sound. The depth provided by typically placing speakers out from the rear wall (and to allow for enough time between direct and reflected sound) could be argued to be a room induced reflection distorton and the ambience cues on the recording could be compromised. Furthermore placing the speakers against the back wall will have the bass frequencies achieve room induced lift that could relieve the amplification of some added work. That extra amplification energy might be better used for room correction. I am surprised to see that Lyngdorf doesn’t recommend corner placement (though the odds of ideal spacing between speakers in otherwise optionless room corners would be unlikely), as that would further the concept. Now I’m not negating your experience. How much recording engineers typically consider soundstage depth is another matter, and if adding artificial depth due to room induced distortion provides a more realistic experience for you, who am I to argue?
Unsound, You wouldn’t be just negating just my experience,but many others as well in America and abroad.
You do bring up valid basic Acousical parameters that any room and or speaker combo compromise will have.
Honestly more “Experimentation” is needed in this area. I’m currently still playing around with my newest speakers,Lawrence double bass,and they are sounding very good but I don’t know yet if I have done the best that they are capable of.I’ve only had them a week.
Another aspect that all of us deal with is recording quality that is all over the place and I do the best for me to find that happy medium.
I also meant to add,what if a person has open baffle or other dipole speakers,that are typically never placed on the wall.Generally at least 3 ft or more away.
^As Lyngdorf has had a history of pairing, and continues to market dipole speakers with their technology, I suspect they could provide much better insight on this matter than I.
I agree,Kinda confusing to me,and other than the little bit of info that’s in the 2170 user online manual,I haven’t seen any other related setup advice.
I'm sure the 2200 is a fine integrated, but the Room Perfect version it uses is quite old, considering the technological advances since 2008 (production year of 2200).
I doubt updates are available to bring the 2200 up to spec of the newer 2170, 3400 models.
Just my two cents... I have no experience with that actual model.
What he said, If a 2170 is above your current budget,I strongly urge you to wait or possibly seek a used one.They do pop up once in a while and their entire technology and build quality is very rock solid and I wouldn’t fear a used one from a reputable seller.
One thing that I always wonder about with systems that use room correction software is the ability to render a realistic soundstage when listening from a typically narrow sweet spot. My limited experience is mostly with friends' home theatre setups and a couple of 2-channels using older DSP software, all using premium gear. In all these cases, the sound quality was very impressive and mostly balanced and full but I just didn't feel the goose bumps I get when you can touch and feel the stage, even in my lesser quality setup. In particular, I found the soundstage rather diffused and the imaging somewhat blurry in lieu of achieving that balanced and pleasing all-over-the-room sound. Reading all these comments and knowing how demanding listeners you guys are, I'm assuming that this piece of gear is not compromising the delivery of the soundstage at the expense of a balanced sound.
I think there have been some huge advances in room correction software over the last few years. Imho, the soundstage and dynamics especially in the Focus setting are extraordinary and have made me a believer.
The 2170 continues to interest me. To raise the funds, would have to sell my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP I use in a second system. And I do enjoy that amp!
I wish I loved computer based audio but for multiple reasons I don't. I like my CD's. Just received a box set of 60 Vivarte CD's and lovin' it! All this for $1.50 a CD. It's a great time to load up. But I know in time I will need to get on board. (see oppo thread)
So here's what I'm thinking. I love the ability the 2170 has to high pass my Double Impacts. Possibly cleaner sound with less of a demand on both the speakers and the 2170's amp while affording a clean transition to my duel subs (all set up as suggested by Lyngdorf). To spin my discs I am looking at a transport. I would probably go with the base 2170. (Wish Lyngdorf/dealers would facilitate allowing the end user to add boards.)
With the standard digital inputs on the 2170, what type of connection would you guys suggest? Do you think a Cambridge cxc transport would significantly limit the potential of the 2170?
My speakers are not there. The musicians play in space before me. So realistic it shocks me weekly. Maybe my current speakers play a role also. The RP in the Lyngdorf is not like others, but in a league of its own. The Focus/listening position settting is the key.
I'm using a CXC transport currently. I use the coax digital out (wireworld starlight 7) and get wonderful results.
I've used the CXC with standalone DACs from PS Audio, Mytek, and Wyred4Sound. The pairing with the Lyngdorf is by far my favorite for standard redboob playback.
I don't have much experience with other transports, only a budget NAD and a PS Audio Perfectwave transport. The PS Audio, IMHO, was the best sounding, but I was using a HDMI cable using it's i2s output. Never tried it with coax.
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