@ps where? I live in Campbell. I don’t know if many shops around that carry hifi equipment.
Which stereo amp to try under $30k
Having just made several upgrades to my system, it's now time for the amp. Given the number of amps in the 15-30k range, I'm guessing many of you have experiences with them. To get started, I'll tell you my (1) my guidance (2) my current list of options (3) My current setup. Looking forward to getting more options on my list, as I'd like to pull the trigger in about 2 months and need to start listening.
My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet
My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack
What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet
My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack
What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
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@mayoradamwest Jeff's cell: 408.376.0861 wells audio dot com He owned a brick and mortar high-end store for many years and is now building a line of wonderful electronics in cahoots with Scott Frankland and some other very talented folks. Scott is considered by many to be a legend, starting in the old days of MFA- Moore-Frankland. I bought my MFA tube gear in the mid 1980s and still have, and love it. Hope this helps, and I hope the info is within the bounds of Audiogon policies. |
I have the T+ A 3100HV integrated amp driving Wilson Audio Alexia’s. Could not be happier. It was an easy decision for me between my 3 top choices: Gryphon integrated (second choice) and a big step above the Pass Int 250. I believe the only distributor in CA is Tweak Studio, who are a pleasure to work with. |
I am not sure the price of the FM Acoustics FM 411-MKIII, but if it is within your range I would get that and be done with it. It is 160 wpc. Alternatively, based on your specs I would get the Soulution 511 Stereo Amp, at 150 wpc and $32,000 (I'm certain you could haggle w/ a dealer and get it down to $30k). Either of the two above would be, I imagine, leaps and bounds above many of the others you mention (McIntosh, ARC, Pass, Luxman, even D'ag, which I found to be abundantly boring at each of three separate shows now). There is a used VAC Statement 450S (225 wpc) currently up on Audiogon (I have no affiliation with it) that would also fit your bill rather well, if you do want to consider one of the few Tube amps that would meet your criteria. Another would be the VTL S-400 Series II. Shy of one of the above, I'd stick with Mc! |
You might want to consider a Wells Audio Innamorata Signature it will meet all your guidelines particularly regarding musicality and realism. It's more than competitive with amps at the top of your range. Jeff Wells is a local guy in Campbell if you want to support local talent. I might be able to arrange a listen if interested. https://www.dagogo.com/wells-audio-innamorata-signature-stereo-amplifier-review/ |
Regarding the Innamorata II Level II, while my understanding is that it is certainly a very fine amplifier, and while the following may very well not be issues, I would suggest that if you speak with Jeff you ask him the following questions about these specs: 150 wpc at 8 ohms, 210 wpc at 4 ohms The questions: 1) Is the fact that the amp is only rated to provide 60 watts more into 4 ohms than into 8 ohms (210 watts vs. 150 watts, which is a difference of less than 1.5 db) a concern with your particular speakers? As George and I alluded to earlier the combination of impedance magnitude and impedance phase angle of your speakers probably represents an effective load of less than 2 ohms at certain bass frequencies. 2) No amplifier can provide 210 watts into each of two channels while consuming only 350 watts. And for that matter providing 300 watts (150 x 2 channels) while consuming 350 watts represents higher efficiency than can be expected of a non-class D amplifier (and I assume this amp is not class D). How can these numbers be reconciled? As I mentioned, these questions may or may not represent issues in your particular application, or in other applications, but IMO they are certainly reasonable questions I would recommend asking. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
P.S. to my previous post: Regarding the second of the two questions I stated, it occurs to me that the explanation **might** be that when the Innamorata specs refer to "power consumption" what is being referred to is what I believe most engineers would refer to as "power dissipation." If so the numbers I cited in regard to that question would make sense. Usually I would expect "power consumption" to refer to how much power is drawn from the wall outlet, and is going into the amp. Which of course must be greater than the amount of power the amp is sending out to the speakers, and much greater in the case of a class A or AB amp. While "power dissipation" is equal to power in minus power out. Regards, -- Al |
Re: cables. Open to changing but will settle on electronics first Re: Innamorata or similar small shops. I’m not too interested in products that have 0 resale and aren’t supported by a company I expect to be around in 10 years. Nothing against those amps, but it’s just not a risk I feel like taking with so many better established companies making fine products. |
I think you should try the best Class D until today. Purifi 1et400a much cheaper and could satisfy you and you can invest https://www.apollonaudio.com/purifi-1et400a-apollon-audio-monoblock/ Or Linnenberg liszt monoblock |
@mayoradamwest I would avoid class D amp if I were you. If you aren't willing to go monoblocks I would recommend a true dual monoblock configurations or designs in a stereo amp chassis but both left & right channels are preferably in separate chambers and are completely isolated and independent from each other. |
When you want to get serious about an amplifier I can send you a custom built point-to-point wired, Plitron transformer and choke, Nichicon Super Through capacitors, Amtrans, Caddock, and Shinkoh resistors, HexFreds and V-Capacitors in a hybrid power amplifier, 100wpc or 200wpc for you to listen to. The hybrids don’t run hot so no worries there. Plus way under $30K. Happy Listening. |
I’ve heard the 118s a number of times through various speakers, as Merrill W. lives in my part of the country and he’s had some local get togethers. I’ve not been a Class D fan, but I must admit these monoblocks are something to consider. |
Symphonic Line RG7 Mk5, or RG-4 monoblocks ( the RG 4 monoblocks are the best choice in my opinion with the 802D3)..... Rega Osiris integrated (you can compare its line section to the Audio Ref preamp, as it offers a "direct" mode as an amp)... Also the Rhapsody Sound in NYC imports a new line of amps: PILIUM. The importer (BOb Visintaier) has been waxing superlatives on this brand, and he has a good ear and a nice guy to boot, worth talking to IMHO (just avoid modern day ex demo, or new Goldmund amps he might offer)... Nagra amps suck by the way, for the kinda of money they want for them.... as do Gryphons & Vitus for the same reason.... imho. There is also a dealer in SF offering the Technics SE-R1 at a good price.... Worth looking into with its companion DAC/preamp... vs your REf 6 preamp.... The new Yamaha Ca-5000 preamp & M-5000 amp, which now only available in Canada, but should be of reference quality at about 15 grand $US..... In fact you can vertical bi amp your speakers with 2 of those M-5000, for almost an "unlimited" reserves.... |
I'd suggest listening to a Balanced Audio Technology VK655SE. It is two separate amplifiers in a single chassis (dual mono design). Each amp in the chassis has its own power supply with its own power cord. The design is fully balanced with zero negative feedback. However, it may not meet your price criteria as the amp only costs about $15K. I guess you could always buy two... |
The Digital Amplifier Company (DAC) would be a good choice to audition. A pair of Mono MK2 Megaschinos will keep you under 10k or the 2 channel Megaschino MK2 for $6100. DAC has been around for a long time building digital amps that sound fantastic! I have a Stereo Maraschino (STM) that I use with my horns in the summer to keep the heat down in my room. Sometimes I wonder why I even deal with my SET tube amps the STM is THAT good! DAC offers a 30 day no frills return policy so you can get a real feel for the sound. Reach out to DAC you’ll be glad you did! https://www.cherryamp.com/dac-home |
@mayoradamwest PM me if you’re interested, I have the Pass XA60.8 monos and live in the Bay Area. They’re not the 160.8 but will give you a taste of the Pass sound. However, as you’ve noted they don’t fit your guidance...they do get warm (especially in the Summer months) and cannot be placed in racks. But the sound is just incredible. BTW I have small children too but they’ve been trained to stay away :) Another option is reach out to Mark Sammut at Reno Hifi, and he can arrange to ship you the 160.8 to demo in your house. Mark is great to work with! |