I've had the Boulder 1160 (with 2110 preamp) for a while now and I really can't imagine a better setup for my Wilson Alexia 2s. All the amps mentioned are excellent, but the Boulder was for me. It's powerful, warm, and highly resolving.
Which stereo amp to try under $30k
Having just made several upgrades to my system, it's now time for the amp. Given the number of amps in the 15-30k range, I'm guessing many of you have experiences with them. To get started, I'll tell you my (1) my guidance (2) my current list of options (3) My current setup. Looking forward to getting more options on my list, as I'd like to pull the trigger in about 2 months and need to start listening.
My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet
My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack
What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet
My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack
What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
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I'm a Diablo 300 owner and i second @georgehifi for the Antileon Evo suggestion, this is what you are looking for and it will be your last amp. It will also probably be my next upgrade. |
Try and audition a Coda No 16 stereo amplifier. Prefered to Pass for those that made the comparison. Made in Sacramento. May not fit in your rack though. Unless you're dying to burn all that cash, here's an alternative. "The i.V Ultra amplifier has handily outdone all other amps reviewed, regardless of genre, which is unprecedented. I invite the community to peruse the entire listing of amps I have reviewed from the past 14 years; there is not a one of them, not a single one, that I would prefer to be hearing. It’s not just a matter of being somewhat better, or in some respects having advantage, but rather a wholesale superior experience." |
I did hear it at home, yes. I would say it sounds detailed and powerful. I will say, the McIntosh MC452 really held up well. I’ll be selling it, but I do mean it when I say that it’s the best amp I’ve heard in that price range. You can pick up a used one for under 5k. As for the Boulder, it’s 28k, so not fair, but it really just did everything better. It doesn’t really have a signature I could point to, but just felt like it was faithfully reproducing music and letting my other components shine. As will the Boulder preamp. |
mayoradamwest OP299 posts11-19-2019 5:23amOrdered the Boulder 1160Great choice, it uses BJT (bi-polar) output transistors, should drive those B&W 802D3 to their best, even into that nasty bass load without even breaking a sweat. Cheers George |
Ordered the Boulder 1160. Likely getting a Boulder pre-amp as well to replace the Ref 6 (though it's a pretty great pre-amp already). That would leave me with Boulder Phono, Pre, and Power, and a dCS DAC. Am I done upgrading? Probably not. Speakers at some point. At least I'll know that I have a very neutral system, so pretty much any speakers should work. |
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@mayoradamwest Just reach out to the US Vitus distributor, he may be able to figure out a way for you to demo it at home. PM me if you want his contact info, I was just in touch with him to figure out how to do an in home demo myself. @varyat is right, it would definitely be a shame not to try out Vitus at the level you are looking at. |
Yes, I hear your pain...I have taken flights to CA to hear equipment and recently flew to Houston to hear the Vitus. Of course, not ideal as it is not your own room, etc. I bring my own vinyl and use specific tracks that I know to test the character of the amp. You can get a fairly good idea if the amp does what you are looking for. Certain components, speakers in particular, can only be evaluated in your home. Amps are a bit more forgiving imo. Not ideal- it is what it is. I have ordered a 030. Loved it. |
Based on my audition of the Pass Labs int 60 and forum comments and reviews, I'd take a serious look at the Pass Labs int 250. The int 60 I auditioned was outstanding to my ears. I know it doesn't sound exactly like the int 60 but the int 250 seems to have almost all of what the int 60 has and more, top end to bottom end. Check out The Absolute Sound, Audiodrome, positive-feedback.com, and hometheaterhifi.com. reviews of the int 250 and come to your own conclusions. Pretty impressive amp. |
I heard two really good integrated amp at a show, Absolare and Aavik. Might be worth hearing if you can find them or power amps from those companies. The Absolare integrated is around $20k. Aavik was paired with their own Boressen speakers. https://www.absolare.com/integratedAmplifier.html https://aavik-acoustics.com/ |
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I think that for me its about both the music and the equipment. As long as my system is working well, which is most of the time, I don't meddle; It is there for the enjoyment of music. Sometimes by myself, but often with friends or family. I like to be so engaged by what I am hearing that I forget that the music is coming from the boxes in my lounge. However, when I do decide to change a component it can be like opening a can of worms! Until I get everything working in harmony again then "the hobby" becomes obsessive about the equipment! Critical listening, reading (through) all the reviews, forums, research, borrowing, trial and error. It can be an enjoyable process, but also a task that can take considerable time. For me, its important to reach a point of satisfaction, draw a line under it all and refocus on the music - until the next time! |
Re Bladelius Ymer (on the subject of bass), I notice that you have shortlisted the Audio Research 160S. I recently heard this driving the Wilson Alex. On the James Blake track "limit to your love" I thought that the bass line was powerful and controlled until I listened to the same track at home through the Ymer. Even my 15 year old son commented how much better it was: there was simply another level of clarity, so much going on in the bass line which had merely been blurred over through the AR / Wilson combo. I suspect that they are both excellent products but there was no escaping the fact that the AR (excellent as it sounded) was not in full control of the Wilsons. |
I'm not surprised that you like the Boulder. I've only tried the 2060 but it certainly has the immense levels of power and control to give you powerful, disciplined bass in a small room. I couldn't afford it but I now have a Bladelius Ymer driven by BAT Rex 2. The sound is amazing. Look up the Ymer's spec. With over 4kw of transformers the way that it can take hold of a speaker (especially the bass) has to be heard to be believed, without compromising sound-staging and fineness (first 45w is class A). I love mine (a lot!). I don't know what dealers there are in the States
(I'm in the UK) but I see there is a 2nd hand one for sale. I can heartily recommend it. |
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I’ve not personally auditioned anything substantially more expensive than another item and found it to be inferior. I’ve auditioned a lot of stuff, but not everything, so I’m sure it happens, especially with the more obscure stuff out there. I think it’s a safe to infer that substantially more money will get better performance. |
Is there anyone here who believes that the more a component costs, the "better" it will sound? It seems to me that the variables are great and are always relative. One more somewhat rhetorical question, what constitutes musical satisfaction for those seeking the nth degree, and how do you know when "you're there?" If this is off-topic, mods, please delete. Thanks and cheers to all. |
That's appalling for local dealer. Especially since you can reach out to dealers out of state, to potentially a better deal and save the 10%+ CA taxes (if the brand isn't geographically controlled). Only reason to buy locally is trust and customer service. FWIW, I love the Luxman m900u with and without c900u. It's a special amp. |
I maybe would have understood for an in-home trial, yes! But this was literally for what he said was “an hour of their time in a dedicated room in their shop”. I was blown away. Why does anyone shop there? I read the Yelp reviews and it seems like I’m not the only one with this experience. Avoid! Not sure how else I would try out the Gryphon. Will stick to Luxman and Boulder for in-home.(less interested in the Ayre) |
Sadly working with local dealers is a hit or miss I have realized as well. Sometimes reaching out to distributors help as well. The good ones will help you figure out a way to try them at home. If you like the the Gryphon, as mentioned before, I would see if you could try out Vitus as well (if you haven't already). Their higher end Class A amps are very well regarded. Not as well known yet in the US but has a big following internationally. They have a new distributor and opened up a service center in CA. I have been speaking to the distributor to arrange for a in-home demo of the RI-101 integrated. |
I've heard several of the amps so far, but none in my system. That's going to be challenging, as no store is going to do a home trial for a new customer. Having listening to halo options from Air Tight, Plinius, Chord, Linn, SimAudio Moon 880M, Mac monos, and a few others, not sure I could make any judgement as they were in different systems. That said, near the very top of my list was the Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo. It splits the price difference between the Boulder 1160 and 2160 and provides a full 150W of Class A power. So, I called a shop I had been meaning to check out for some time, Audio Vision SF. Wow. The person on the phone (name intentionally omitted) was dismissive from the very beginning, seemingly assumed I had no real interest in the amp, and couldn't afford it, even after telling him what else was already in my system. He was as unfriendly as I could have imagined - like a really bad used car salesman. Then, he topped it off with saying I need to pay HIM $250 for the honor of listening to the amp. Yes, you read that right. He wants me to pay $250 to shop in his store. LOL! Anyway, back to Music Lovers. They have been the nicest, most welcoming audio shop I have ever been in, and really have gone above and beyond to help me out, from the very first phone call. I'd rather settle for not having tried every amp to get the sort of service I get with this shop. Highly recommended. (I have been going to the Berkeley location). |
I just remembered an astonishing audio experience that I was fortunate enough to have a couple of years ago. Someone I know, who happens to review for one of the major audiophile publications, invited me to hear his All-Gamut system. At the risk of being hyperbolic, it was truly mind-blowing. I mean the musicians were not only in the room but you felt as if you could almost touch them! One downside for you is that, apparently, the Gamut gear sounded by far, the best, with Shunyata cables. The price meets your budget, too! The amps: http://www.tonepublications.com/review/gamut-m250i-mono-power-amplifiers-preview/ |