Which of these power cords ?
And some suggest going with one brand, to get the biggest benefit.
Brands on short list include:
- DH Labs
- Audio Art
- VHAudio
- IceAge
- Shunyata Venoms
- Audio Envy
- Black Sand Audio
- Cerious
- Signal Cable
- Cullen Cable
- Pangea
- PS Audio AC5
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Soniquil Power Cable by Raven Audio. 1.5/M $184 2/M $224 3/M $274 Very well built and huge bang for the buck! https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/power-cables/ |
I would suggest the Acrolink 4030. With goods plugs like Oyaide or Furutec This is an option However, Most important is the LENGTH of the cable. You will need ar least 1.5m (6 feet) . Power cables can act as filters and help reduce high frequency hash. If your system is fed with clean power to start with, everything will benefit. My system is wired with Acrolink from junction box to outlet and from outlet to equipment. |
" I can’t believe manufacturers would all compromise the sound of their components by using inadequate power cords?" They are not in the business of power cords and better cords mean higher costs as most components have price point goals. Manufacturers will let the end user decide as there are hundreds of options. Your second paragraph is a tired argument and has been hashed out in this and many other forums. |
I can't believe manufacturers would all compromise the sound of their components by using inadequate power cords? I can not believe that expensive power cords make an audible difference. At my rural home the current runs about 750 feet through aluminum cable from the last transformer to my service panel then another fifty or sixty feet through copper Romex cable from the service panel to the wall outlets for the stereo. A six foot power cord is at most .75 per cent of the total cable supplying power to the stereo. How can six feet of expensive power cord correct problems created the other 99.25 per cent of wire. I just don't buy it. That being said I am careful to use good quality power cords , usually the cords supplied by the manufacturer of the equipment. |
Hi cdc2, I don't mean to rain on your parade but that leaves you $142.00 for each cord. Go to audiobacon.net https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/ It's a great online audio website, he did a fantastic review and compared 27 (I think) different power cords and gave his opinion of all of them. There were some great budget cords but even the budget cords were in the $250.00 - $500.00 price range. At $142.00 each, I think you would be wasting your money if you bought all 7 of them at the same time. Just my opinion. The way I would do it is buy 2 or 3 of them to start with and put them on the most important pieces such as your sources whether that's the cd player or the dac or the streamer. Then as you save up enough money for the next round you can put them on your preamp or integrated amp. A good power cord can make a nice difference but at the $150.00 price point there's not a lot of good ones to choose from. Eventually it will make a big improvement in your whole system. Good luck with whatever you choose. Scot |
Two cents worth of my lies. I had an offer from the local power company to swap out my drop from the pole to the house. NO COST. WHY? It had been there since 1945. They upgraded the service in the 80s from 8k to 20k for all the resident clusters, all HEAVY ALU. cable. BIG improvement. No more low voltage reading. EVERYTHING worked better. But, again why my drop? LOL The guy wanted the 75 year old copper cable. WHY? I asked WHY do you want THAT cable? He explained he was serious stereo guy, and that copper would make some of the best speaker/interconnects/ect money could buy. OK, then we went inside, he saw a FEW stereo systems. Vintage tube and New Mcintosh tube gear. He was amazed at the quality of the sound, of the newer C2500, all fixed up with op Amp upgrades la te da. Then he heard the old C20s, MC30s, MC60s, MC225s, MC240s and MC275s, all pairs all OLD, but restored with HIGH quality parts. The guy stops buy once a month to listen now. BTW the old copper stayed. Knob and tube in my house. And yes if you turn off all the breakers, lest the three 20s (not knob and tube) I use for the stereo room is like NO OTHER. All my cabling is made by me. Quality wire, Quality Terminals Voltage maint of 120 new 117 old gear, very, VERY, important , shielding where you can. I think I have under 500.00 USD invested, in all the cable combined, mostly pure copper, some pure silver (USAF surplus). NO CLAD or mixtures of copper/silver/gold, in my system. ZERO floor noise, with the newer stuff, almost zip with tube gear. OH, I forgot MY new TIN Foil Hat! I paid 1500.00 USD. Just can't get the wife to go along with heating water in the fireplace, when I turn off the breakers, darn, heck, shoot, females!!! TURN DOWN THAT STEREO, yes dear. The chickens will quit laying eggs! YES DEAR!! Not really, she's a great sport. The chickens that is.. |
fleschler976 posts01-15-2020 5:42pmbuilder3 I found many of DH Labs top cables very expensive. For instance https://www.amazon.com/DH-Diety-Speaker-cables-connectors/dp/B00VS04002?ref_=ast_bbp_dp 1/pr DH Labs Diety Speaker cables Spade connectors in 12 feet for $7,900 or https://www.amazon.com/DH-Revelation-SP-speaker-cables-stereo/dp/B00VS45XY0?ref_=ast_bbp_dp 1/pr DH Labs Revelation-SP speaker cables stereo w spade ends in 8 ft for $3,850 (and very expensive for bi-wire and longer lengths). Apparently, DH Labs has multiple levels of cost and quality cabling. Most of their offerings are under $1,000 and very inexpensive for their lowest lines. My remarks were limited to power cords, since that's what the OP asked about. |
OP -
Question is - Will a $90 or a $150 power cord sound any better than the stock ones? Yes, in my experience all the components that I swapped in an aftermarket power cord improved the sound, to some degree. I would suggest buying used or if you feel comfortable making your own, go with the DIY route. There are plenty of options for good bulk wire & connectors available. You do not have to spend big bucks to get satisfying results. |
builder3 I found many of DH Labs top cables very expensive. For instance
https://www.amazon.com/DH-Diety-Speaker-cables-connectors/dp/B00VS04002?ref_=ast_bbp_dp
1/pr DH Labs Diety Speaker cables Spade connectors in 12 feet for $7,900 or
https://www.amazon.com/DH-Revelation-SP-speaker-cables-stereo/dp/B00VS45XY0?ref_=ast_bbp_dp
1/pr DH Labs Revelation-SP speaker cables stereo w spade ends in 8 ft for $3,850 (and very expensive for bi-wire and longer lengths). Apparently, DH Labs has multiple levels of cost and quality cabling. Most of their offerings are under $1,000 and very inexpensive for their lowest lines. |
rilbr, same logic applies to the transformer in your devices. The electricity flowing thru your PC is just part of another power line between the secondary of the transformer in the street and the primary of the transformer in your amplifier. No electrons flowing thru your PC are reaching the secondary which is feeding the actual audio electronics in your devices. So if you admit that the PC has an influence you cannot reject the fact that everything from the power company also has an influence, it's the same type of galvanic isolation. |
fleschler975 posts01-12-2020 8:11pmMaybe DH Labs cables at the low end of their price range are worth the money. However, at $5,000 to $10,000 range for their top range I prefer GroverHuffman Cables at 1/10 DH Labs cost. DH Lab's most expensive power cord is $850. Not sure what you're looking at. |
rcfun33 and Chinook9: Electricity runs in a circuit through each transformer. So the current produced by a power plant never gets out of their yard! It just circulates through the stators and the primary of the first step up transformer. The magnetic field produced moves electrons in the secondary part of the transformer. Out it goes to the next primary. Miles away, at your house, it (electricity) circulates through the secondary winding in the pole transformer( or on ground transformer), through each of your audio components and appliances. So there's not a big cord miles long from the power plant to your house. Even if there was, the power cord would still make a difference in sound ! So please don't claim "physics". FYI: There is also specialty in wall cable for A/V systems and breaker panels. These are far more involving than just trying a cord. |
@ millercarbon Maybe that is why installing The Gate from PPT either enhances the electrical flow to all the wires in the panel or restricts the cross field electrical contamination between wires (or both). Everyone who has installed it claims superior sound, enhanced video and reduced frig/freezer temps. After 20+ years as a beta cable tester for a company, we've come to the conclusion that the power cable is the most critical of cables with speaker wire and interconnects after that. |
Gee, if I would have explicitly stated something like "all the transformers, save for the last one your house sees" all the above wouldn't have been necessary. Going overboard, to great lengths, to tear apart a summation done in shorthand, that anyone could understand as a simple rebuttal to a specious argument, gives one pause. Slow day? All the best, Nonoise |
maxima95, probably repeating something he read somewhere (and without really thinking about it much before posting, never a good idea) writes: All of this nonsense about all the miles, nodes, transformers and such are just another B.S. line of thought (if you can call it thought) that naysayer latch onto as a form or "gotcha" ridicule that works on those easily swayed by such tactics. Okay so let's fill in the thinking maxima95 couldn't be bothered to do. Start with the fundamental principle of electricity: a current flowing through a wire creates a magnetic field around the wire, AND an electromagnetic field crossing a wire induces a current in the wire. This is actually how the electricity is created in the dam in the first place. Also how the electric current is created in the phono cartridge. Its how transformers work. It is, and now finally we get to the point, how an antenna works. String a wire, any old wire, anywhere, radio waves come along and induce a current in the wire. Always. Everywhere. Which all us old farts know from having played with the flimsy rabbit ears on TV and the messy FM antenna wire that used to come with every tuner. Every wire everywhere is an antenna. Now maxima95, if you can be bothered to go look at your panel, your house, and your neighborhood, you will see wires going all over the place. Because of the way electricity works higher voltages are more efficient over long distances, but very dangerous up close. So transmission lines are high voltage, residential much lower. High voltages are converted to lower voltages in things called transformers. Probably given the obvious lack of knowledge should explain how transformers work. Remember the part about fields inducing current? Okay. So a lot of wire wrapped around and around will create a very dense field. Take another wire, wrap it around a lot, all the fields crossing all the wires induces a lot of current. Now I don't want to lose you here but its a little more complicated than that. Its not just current, usually thought of as flow. Its also voltage, which can be thought of as pressure. By changing the proportion of windings on one side vs the other you can design a transformer that will take an incoming voltage and transform it high, with less current, or lower voltage, but with more current. Okay. Now we get to the important part. All this crossing of fields and wires, its not perfect. Everything from the diameter and composition of the wires to the geometry of the windings and their physical spacing, not to mention the part I haven't even mentioned yet, got to leave you something to do on your own you know, all these things affect the precise character of the transformer. This is why there is so much variety in step-up transformers. Why they measure the same but sound so different. These details of dimensions and construction, one affect they have is on the ability of the transformer to pass very high frequencies. Radio frequencies, being very high, are one of the first things to go. Now go look outside your house. Might have to walk a ways down the block. Then again maybe not. Just keep looking up at the top of the telephone poles. Eventually you will see a great big round thing with Robbie the Robot type deals coming out with wires attached. There's your friendly neighborhood step down transformer. So now just to be clear, you can ignorantly deride as nonsense everything to the dam if you want, and get away with it at least until someone comes along with the tech specs on all the transformers in between, but you sure cannot do that for your house and whatever all is downstream from the last transformer on route to your house. From that point on everything is all one wire. But hey, don't take my word for it. Go pull the panel on your breaker box. Go ahead. Do it! You need to stop making silly arrogant statements on line and this is the way to stop this one. See how all the wires are connected? Three big fat wires come in from the utility- 2 hot, 1 neutral. All your 110v circuits, they come off the panel one breaker at a time, but they all come back and connect together at the neutral bus bar. Ground also connect together at a bus bar. If you look at this and still think it doesn't matter, sorry, wrong and... but hey! Don't take my word for it! Check it out and prove it to yourself! Play your favorite music. Listen real good. Now go flip all the breakers on your panel off, except what you need for the stereo. Play it again. That wonderful improvement you're hearing is all coming from having broken the connection of all those antenna wires in the house. What you just heard is exactly what you ridiculed as being nonsense. As others have said, it's the first few feet your amp (or source) sees which relies on that outlet meeting said specs and ratings as the amp was designed to work with them, and not a different set of specs anywhere back on the line." "As others have said" yada yada. Now maybe you begin to understand why "as others have said" is a poor argument. Never rely on others. DYODD. Please. Or the next time might not be snowing in Seattle and I won't have time to correct you. |
"The power that is spec'd and rated for your home is done at the outlet, not the transformer down the street, or the all the way back to the dam spinning the giant turbines, or the coal plant belching crap into the sky. All of this nonsense about all the miles, nodes, transformers and such are just another B.S. line of thought (if you can call it thought) that naysayer latch onto as a form or "gotcha" ridicule that works on those easily swayed by such tactics. As others have said, it's the first few feet your amp (or source) sees which relies on that outlet meeting said specs and ratings as the amp was designed to work with them, and not a different set of specs anywhere back on the line." As stated above, a power cord is a filter - just like any other cable - and is the last cable filter between the wall and the component. This tired and pitiful yarn about the miles of wire etc., is in the same league as "it's all 0's and 1's." |
The power that is spec'd and rated for your home is done at the outlet, not the transformer down the street, or the all the way back to the dam spinning the giant turbines, or the coal plant belching crap into the sky. All of this nonsense about all the miles, nodes, transformers and such are just another B.S. line of thought (if you can call it thought) that naysayer latch onto as a form or "gotcha" ridicule that works on those easily swayed by such tactics. As others have said, it's the first few feet your amp (or source) sees which relies on that outlet meeting said specs and ratings as the amp was designed to work with them, and not a different set of specs anywhere back on the line. All the best, Nonoise |
Yes, at least 2-4 dedicated home runs of 15/20 amp 10/8 gauge wiring and hospital/audiophile grade outlets to the audio system is a big improvement—I’ve done this twice in the last two homes I’ve lived in (one was a rental with my landlord’s permission) and the results are amazing—easy to listen to/hear over the standard outlets. Both electricians thought I was “nuts” and I got them to listen to the “outlets” after the install and the amount and impact of the bass response on my 200 watts Class A amplifier was easily discernible to their “non-audio file“ ears, and they admitted they would not believe it unless they heard it and installed the wiring themselves. I would upgrade the wiring to your audio room first, before trying new power cables, if possible, and then buy “used” cables and listen for differences in your set up. The improvement will go well beyond bass response...that is merely something that non-audiophiles and audiophiles alike can easily hear. |
I have an audio only subpanel with 8 dedicated circuits
of 20 amps each per outlet in the listening room isolated from the lighting and
HVAC servicing the room which goes to another subpanel. The audio power outlets have Synergistic Research Blue duplexes. The wiring is 10 gauge. I built the room for listening purposes only. The 42,000 LPs/78s/CDs are housed in an adjacent storage room and record storage Tuffshed. |
In my system Power Chord swapping is easy to hear the differences...the same power cord on my DAC can sound vastly different on my preamplifier and again on my amplifier. I enjoy trying new power cords and have collected a lot of them. The Black Sand Audio is a great sounding cord on all my equipment and at a fair price...I purchased mine used in good condition. |
Chinook91 you are absolutely correct in your skepticism. The typical in house wiring, in the US, is a 15 amp circuit with 14 gauge wire and could easily run 50 feet or more. This terminates at a circuit box and a breaker on one end and an outlet at the other end. All of this will have much more impedance, discontinuities, etc, than the last few feet of cable. If it is worth spending thousands of dollars for the last 3 to 6 feet, then it must make sense to spend $100K or more for the wiring from the power company connection to the outlets these cables are plugging into. This is just a really good way for cable companies to make a ton of money from people that don't understand physics. That said, the placebo effect is proven to be real, so I'm sure people that spend $5K on a PC can hear the difference. |
After installing the GroverHuffman Pharoah A/C cables in my CD transport, DAC, pre-amp and amps, digital often (7000 CDs) sound as good or better than analog, of the same recording (28,000 LPs). As a beta tester and previously using GroverHuffman Empress A/C cables (less than SOTA resolution, frequency extension and open sounding but very nice, balanced sounding), I have found the Pharoah cables superior to many $3000-$15,000 A/C "SOTA" marketed cables by companies such as High Fidelity, Transparent, Kimber, Audiosource, etc. at a cost of less than $1000. Head to head, the Pharoah is preferred (at audio shows where the dealer's are anxious to keep the cables in their systems for the show duration-however, as hand made cables, Mr. Huffman can only manufacture a limited number per day). I agree with a prior post indicating that one should first upgrade their power outlet to see if their system can reveal the benefit of a more costly A/C cable. |
For anyone interested in an explanation regarding why power cables make an audible difference, please read https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference. Granted, the source of the information is from the founder of Shunyata Research (which is a manufacturer of power cables) so it should be taken with a grain (shaker?) of salt. However, the logic is sound and I have heard the difference myself. I too was once skeptical, but I am not anymore. The derisive argument often given (see the earlier post by chinook9) is that since the electricity has already traveled 500 miles through all sorts of nasty wire, replacing the last 3 feet with something better cannot possible fix the damage already done. The flaw in that argument is that from the AMPLIFIER's perspective the power cord is the FIRST 3 feet, not the LAST. The alternating current does not flow (like water) from the power company into your amplifier. It oscillates with the current entering and leaving your amplifier via the power cord. The power cord is basically an EXTENSION of the amplifier's transformer which can eliminate EMI/RFI before it enters the amplifier's transformer. |
A good place to start, as a low cost reference, is a DIY power cord using something like Belden 20A (the same stuff that comes as the stock cord with Krell amplifiers). It's sufficiently stout to be a bit of a challenge, but not impossible. I bought a 250m drum of it for about $200 (admittedly many years ago), made up my own cords and used them as a benchmark. I've not tried many costly alternatives since but none of those that I have tried has produced significantly different let alone better results. I even sold a few of my home made cords to local hi-fi dealers who were impressed with the quality of my workmanship as well as the quality of the cords themselves. The prices of far too many "specialist" power cords (and many other cables of varying types) are just crazy and not remotely worth the money. Strictly for those who don't know what else to spend their money on. |
@cdc2, If you want to keep the price of power cords between $100 - $150 per cord I'd recommend looking for used Cerious Technologies Graphene line of their Blue, Red, or Yellow power cords, assuming you can find them in your price range. Although you did not include the following power cord, I also believe the old original Synergistic Research Reference A/C Master Coupler power cord would work very well also. |
Power cords make a huge difference depending on your system. If you have a all in one Radio Shack system chances are you won’t here a difference. If you have a system that is revealing then they will. That being said I would go with the Shunyata Venom NR series. They are the best bang for the buck. You don’t have to replace all at once. If your budget is $1000 then you have enough for 3 PC’s. I would put them on the amps and preamp. When budget allows then replace one at a time. It’s much better than spending $150 a PC and not getting anywhere near the performance of the Shunyata Venoms. |
I've done the entry level PC route and relly didn't hear much difference. Pangea comes to mi d. It wasn't until I moved up that things changed. My advise is to focus on your main source component, like Dac, and find one that makes the change your looking for. Used us an awesome way to get going. Last generation technology might be an amazing upgade crom stock at 40% ish of stock price. Once you find what really works for you, sell what didn't and then start upgrading your next location. Either way enjoy the journey and listen more to yourself than what others like |
Making cables is pretty fun. I had an older Kimber PK14 and a PK 10 Gold which I got the itch to "upgrade" and so I purchased some Furutech plugs and reterminated them. Did it improve the sound? I don't know but it sure was fun to do and they look much better than the Wattgate connectors. So if you have the inclination, maybe make your own. |